Solution for Ganking

[Morbad]

BTW we absolutely do play the game.

There will be a series of charity events on the 14th and 15th of Dec

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq0qdbIx0uk


Great opportunity to debunk the "PvPers are better pilots than PvEers myth".

Timetable:
View attachment 410979

Spoiler tags would have been useful. Now there is no chance I'll be surprised by hostile CMDRs participating in that race as my CMDR meanders toward Colonia in his lightly armed jumpconda laden with exploration data, first footfalls, and exobio flasks. I can avoid having my CMDR act on any information he wouldn't have access to, but its not quite the same as genuinely being caught off-guard.

No experience? i have plenty of experience of PvP in ED, but thanks.

If I seem doubtful of your ability to assess what's going on in the video Iinked it's because you've repeatedly expressed a very narrow view of what constitutes PvP and have also conflated PvP and AX piloting (when you said "go watch some of the AX pilots") almost immediately prior to pointing out they are different skill sets.

I'm confused as to what subset of PvP you could be talking about where the AX pilots you're referring to would be a meaningful analog, or why you would make the suggestion you did if you didn't feel one could infer one's PvP prowess from their AX abilities. I sure can't infer someone's AX prowess from their PvP abilities. The overlap with PvP, in my modest experience with AX, is negligible, and I quickly learned that apply tactics that often work well in organic, or even pitched, PvP rarely translate into fighting Thargoids.

Sidewinder vs 2 Inters and a glaive, that i would love to see

I've tried soloing Interceptors with a Sidewinder, but I refuse to rely on synthesis, so I've always had to retreat. I never really felt my CMDR was at risk (relative to the marginal risk it's possible for any CMDR to be in) in AX combat, just that there was some combination that had to be figured out, if I didn't want it to degenerate into a battle of attrition.

 

[Reggit]

Sidewinder vs 2 Inters and a glaive, that i would love to see

O7

I've never done it....but it does seem doable (with a bit of practice and alot of synthesis!)

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3s6pvANBcs

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I don't think either of you have anywhere near the PvP experience in this game to have the faintest idea what you're talking about.

You found that out all by yourself? It is not exactly a secret that I don't do nor have any interest in PvP. And I still find the usual PvP videos and other content people post and stream so proudly on the interwebs very boring and unentertaining, thank you very much.

Edit: Sorry, wrong thread context. Apologies, the derailing happens in the other thread .

 

[Robert Maynard]

Reminder to participants: please discuss the topic. Other participants are not the topic. Failure to comply will result in advisories, warnings, reply bans and / or thread closure.

 

[Morbad]

I've never done it....but it does seem doable (with a bit of practice and alot of synthesis!)

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3s6pvANBcs

Well a Glaive would certainly complicate things as they can keep up with a coasting Sidewinder.

My lack of enthusiasm regarding AX combat--beyond the silly weapon/damage dichotomy, and the massive narrative wrapped around it that we have no real agency in--is that it's a specialized skill set that I have little interest in developing. I'm sure the same applies to those who take issue with PvP and ganking, but that can be opted out of to the same extent.

Edit: lost part of this reply and had to fix it.

You found that out all by yourself? It is not exactly a secret that I don't do nor have any interest in PvP.

So why put forward an assessment of what's going on in a PvP engagement?

And I still find the usual PvP videos and other content people post and stream so proudly on the interwebs very boring and unentertaining, thank you very much.

A lot of them are boring. Less boring if one has the experience to appreciate their content, but many of them will never be fun to watch.

That's subjective though, and utterly beyond the point. The only point I was making with the video is that there are gankers with skill. One doesn't need to find the video enjoyable to acknowledge that. Ganking doesn't put holes in the ganker's brain, or result in them being cursed with infirmity by the gods.

Als,o generally (this goes for all the elitist PvP gods in this thread), way to derail the thread from "ganking in sol" - which is clearly and undoubtly happening - to "we PvPers are the better players and own open". Thumbs up!

Pointing out that gankers may well not be inept, is not a derailment, and wouldn't even be a derailment in that other thread.

I'm also not making the elitist assertions you're accusing me of. I'm pointing out that it's a fallacy to correlate subjectively unappealing behavior with one's abilities as a combat pilot.

Pushing misinformation about gankers' spectrum of abilities, or overemphasizing the role equipment plays in a gank, doesn't help anyone. Whoever is reading this thread, for whatever purpose, deserves to have accurate information, so they can make whatever decision is best for their game...not to mention informed suggestions in the suggestions sub-forum.

 

[Darrack]

f I seem doubtful of your ability to assess what's going on in the video Iinked it's because you've repeatedly expressed a very narrow view of what constitutes PvP and have also conflated PvP and AX piloting (when you said "go watch some of the AX pilots") almost immediately prior to pointing out they are different skill sets.

I said the video was boring, endless jousting is not my idea of PvP, ive seen better scraps on hen nights.

O7

 

[Elpapo]

Create a module that changes the ship's signature to mimic an npc, giving the player a solid square instead of a hollow square on the radar. Gankers would have to scan your ship in order to see that "Cmdr" in the name.

It would not work.

There once was bug (long time ago), that once made some cmdrs appear as npcs, and many npcs appear as cmdrs, as mentioned bug only affected visuals on radar. It hardly saved anyone at time, because of few reasons:

Cmdrs still would had "cmdr" attached to them, well as in "history" tab, one can see who is in instance (cmdrs with "Now" means they are in same instance, even if not yet "visible"), and CTRL+B enables bandwith-o-meter, wich is another indicator whenever someone else is in instance, becasue it always "spikes up" whenever P2P does its thing.

Other way to easly diffrence apart npcs from cmdr is loadout itself, and very often, the ship name along its ID as well. Even nuiances of how one fly in supercruz, can easly give it away, even if some kind of "conceal" would be used, such as hide cmdr prefix to someone name, solid square instead hollow, but I doubt that would hide them from history tab, well as bandwith itself.

 

[Hanerib]

Ganking is just damage being thrown around. Of transient nature, spiritually meaningless and empty without utilization correct views and ethically aligned technology. In order to execute meaningful action one should first realize the illusory nature of this reality and how physical and mental events arise from an inconstant universe, and then proceed with enforcer cannons, perhaps overcharged autoloader and one with corrosion effect. There are many paths to sim-enlightenment and proper use of multicannons is one of them.

 

[Morbad]

I said the video was boring, endless jousting is not my idea of PvP, ive seen better scraps on hen nights.

How boring you found the video is neither here nor there. You expressed what seemed to be significant doubt about my assertion that the CMDR being fought was one of the best PvPers in the game, an assertion that I thought would be uncontroversial to anyone with significant experience engaging hostile CMDRs (something I would call PvP) in combat in this game.

Given the almost complete absence of jousting in the video I linked, I'm not even sure we're talking about the same video, assuming you have the experience you say you have. Or maybe we are talking about the same video and you have a very different idea of what jousting is as well as a very different idea of what PvP is and think your ideal of PvP, whatever that may be, is somehow more relevant to this discussion?

 

[Neilski]

Yes it was implied (as always)

I honestly didn't even see it implied. From memory, I think I saw @Morbad suggest that some PvPers - including some gankers - were exceptionally skilled (I believe this is true, and tbh it shouldn't be even remotely contentious to say that).
I saw no implication from anyone that "PvPers are better than PvEers" (which I would not believe to be true) and I didn't understand why you or anyone would have interpreted anyone's comments that way. Can you please point me at any comment which implied this? (This isn't nitpicking - I'm genuinely asking for clarity because I am confused by this strand of the conversation.)

played the tutorials (all of them, until I could kill that Big Mama anaconda with that laser/railgun sidewinder at the end of that tenth wave)

Having always struggled (on a game controller) with railguns, I'm curious about what control setup you use?

More generally, and coming back on topic a little:

It appears that some people in the thread use "ganking" to mean "attacking defenceless beginners", while others are using it more broadly to mean any kind of spontaneous attack on another player (perhaps even including semi-consensual attacks, in line with their in-game character). I always thought it meant the former though.

I've watched debates (rather like this one) about ganking for years, and I don't have very strong views about it (or more accurately, I feel quite conflicted about it). Voting with my feet though: I have certainly wrestled with the urge to play in Open on many occasions and almost always rejected it for Solo... I think this is because I don't yet feel "ready" for the unpredictability of Open, even though in principle I would like to agree that escaping from a PvP attack is mostly doable if you don't fly a paper ship. (I don't fly paper ships, but they aren't usually very tough; I can invariably escape from the NPCs when flying transport missions which get me attacked by a wave of criminals, even if I lose the interdiction mini-game or choose to submit, but the irritation of being repeatedly interdicted in the mission system while delivering goods is quite off-putting )
Whenever I fire up the game, one reason I keep giving myself to choose Open mode is that it will make the game more interesting (since the NPCs aren't much of a challenge to experienced players) but yet this reason keeps failing to convince me... There are certainly occasions when I'd need to be nuts to choose Open (e.g. shedloads of exploration data at risk) but mostly I don't have any real excuse, so I confess to being kinda puzzled that the lure of Open has so rarely pulled me in. Having written this essay I guess I'll now have to give it another go and see how I fare!

 

[Morbad]

I honestly didn't even see it implied.

I certainly didn't intend to imply any such thing.

I do think the subset of skills under or adjacent to direct PvP are more relevant in situations of direct PvP (like ganking, for example), than most other skills though. Not sure why that would be controversial.

Having always struggled (on a game controller) with railguns, I'm curious about what control setup you use?

Normally I fly with a HOTAS (CH fighter stick, throttle, and pedals), though I've been using (mostly default) KBM controls much more since Odyssey, mostly because I've spent a majority of my time on foot as of late. I'm not particularly good with rails on either and usually rely on FA to stabilize hitscan weapons. This stick has something like 4k hours on it and needs a rebuild...would have replaced it outright, again, but with what FDev has been doing to this game and how few other games I still use the HOTAS for, it hasn't be a priority. Once I get my new PC built up and running to my satisfaction, I'll probably clean up my controls and then use them until they break. I've already bought the DeOxit fader grease for the pots, and some more Nyogel 767A for al lthe sliding surfaces.

It appears that some people in the thread use "ganking" to mean "attacking defenceless beginners", while others are using it more broadly to mean any kind of spontaneous attack on another player (perhaps even including semi-consensual attacks, in line with their in-game character). I always thought it meant the former though.

I've been interpreting 'ganking' loosely as 'possibly unprovoked attacks by a seemingly superior force' as a rough mean of what's being talked about, as everyone seems to have their own definitions, many of which are uselessly wide or narrow.

I don't think one needs to be a beginner or defenseless for it to be a gank attempt, though those are the ones that tend to inspire the most outrage.

I've watched debates (rather like this one) about ganking for years, and I don't have very strong views about it (or more accurately, I feel quite conflicted about it). Voting with my feet though: I have certainly wrestled with the urge to play in Open on many occasions and almost always rejected it for Solo... I think this is because I don't yet feel "ready" for the unpredictability of Open, even though in principle I would like to agree that escaping from a PvP attack is mostly doable if you don't fly a paper ship. (I don't fly paper ships, but they aren't usually very tough; I can invariably escape from the NPCs when flying transport missions which get me attacked by a wave of criminals, even if I lose the interdiction mini-game or choose to submit, but the irritation of being repeatedly interdicted in the mission system while delivering goods is quite off-putting )
Whenever I fire up the game, one reason I keep giving myself to choose Open mode is that it will make the game more interesting (since the NPCs aren't much of a challenge to experienced players) but yet this reason keeps failing to convince me... There are certainly occasions when I'd need to be nuts to choose Open (e.g. shedloads of exploration data at risk) but mostly I don't have any real excuse, so I confess to being kinda puzzled that the lure of Open has so rarely pulled me in. Having written this essay I guess I'll now have to give it another go and see how I fare!

Technical issues aside, it's all mindset. If that unpredictability doesn't strike you as a positive thing and your desire for positive interactions can't weather the possible negative ones, Open may not be for you. If you want a change of pace and won't see a confrontation as a setback, maybe it is.

 

[Koma Pahu]

It appears that some people in the thread use "ganking" to mean "attacking defenceless beginners", while others are using it more broadly to mean any kind of spontaneous attack on another player (perhaps even including semi-consensual attacks, in line with their in-game character). I always thought it meant the former though.

It’s the definition that was used in the late 90s early 2000s, and as the debate hasn’t really changed since then I’d argue it’s still the only valid use of the term.

---

As someone who’s mostly flown in Open, and also plays Star Citizen with no safe modes, I can attest that unexpected PvP is often less than pleasant. But so is getting smashed by Thargoids to the point your character no longer has any credits and you lose your ship.

But the reality is, it’s rare to see other CMDRs in Open, and even rarer to be attacked by a player.

Overall the perceived threat of ganking, or even unexpected PvP, looms far more in people’s imagination than reality.

I never fly unshielded in Open, but I also hide in Solo these days when I’m doing things like setting up the Engineers with my alt, because I simply don’t have the time online to have it wasted for someone else’s amusement.

People shouldn’t be scared of Open, but playing Solo is also a 100% valid option.

 

[Screemonster]

I said the video was boring, endless jousting is not my idea of PvP, ive seen better scraps on hen nights.

O7

man you should see some of the "pvp" interactions I've had, a lot of them I don't even bother to record the clip because they'd make for terrible video.

A screenshot works just as well though.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

My point was, even if you're not flying a paper ship, if its a big hauling ship, doesn't really matter if you go to all those lengths to add defence, you're still going boom before you can even high wake, so might as well not even bother. Have more cargo space. The chances of getting ganked are pretty low, so reap the benefit while you can, and then the occasional gank you're still way ahead than you would be if you had sacrificed cargo space for bigger shields and HRPs/MRPs/SCBs.

My T9 has a shield for defence (boosted biweave) and has survived every attempt by CG campers to kill it. Admittedly I've made to the station with with hull in single digest percentage more often than I'm comfortable with but I'm still delivering >700 tonnes every time which consistently got me 10% finishes in CGs.
It's not impossible and possibly more important than any amount of armour is being aware of your scanner and spoiling the would be gankers aim before you you're ready to wake.

 

[Screemonster]

It's not impossible and possibly more important than any amount of armour is being aware of your scanner and spoiling the would be gankers aim before you you're ready to wake.

Earlier today some enemy-pledged anaconda was in one of our systems and they didn't change course at all when I saw them in supercruise and turned to intercept - just absolutely not paying attention, while in enemy space, when a python 2 turns around, bears down on them, and circles around to their rear.

After being interdicted, they adopted the "boost in a straight line" school of defence, which was naturally countered by the "boost faster in a straight line while emptying six hardpoints directly into the target's engines" school of offence.

 

[metatheurgist]

My lack of enthusiasm regarding AX combat--beyond the silly weapon/damage dichotomy, and the massive narrative wrapped around it that we have no real agency in--is that it's a specialized skill set that I have little interest in developing.

Same. That and the series of grind hoops required before you can even get to the action. I got tired of Dark Souls pattern fighting in the 80s. So much that is old is claimed to be new again. I also had a good laugh when modern reviewers claimed Portal's puzzle platformer was 'revolutionary and original' just because someone got around to doing it in 3D.

 

[Elpapo]

My T9 has a shield for defence (boosted biweave) and has survived every attempt by CG campers to kill it. Admittedly I've made to the station with with hull in single digest percentage more often than I'm comfortable with but I'm still delivering >700 tonnes every time which consistently got me 10% finishes in CGs.
It's not impossible and possibly more important than any amount of armour is being aware of your scanner and spoiling the would be gankers aim before you you're ready to wake.

Yep, properly defended and aware T9 is very hard to kill for single attacker, thats it, because, if T9 owner would loiter long around for a full wing of pacifer P2 to drop on such, then even hi-wake would not be enough. But luckly for anyone who is attacked by full wing, getting full wing into instance within short amount of time, can be tricky for attackers, as by time full wing drops, T9 is about to finish charging its FSD, if followed proper steps and being well aware what is happening.

Another thing that full wings (4/4) usually are busy with other things than single targets, so its actually quite rare to find such, and even more rarer to end up being thier target, mostly because.. of instancing, especially if cmdrs who are in wing, are from all over world, literally... and if just one of them have any connection problems or lag, then entire wing is affected. This all gives all required time that any attacked cmdr needs, to wake out of such "problem", especially after interdiction.

But some smart cmdrs knows this and they are usually hi-wakin right in about very moment when wing drops on them (once realized that full wing is after thier ship). Thats situational awarness that only some cmdrs have, since thats what makes big diffrence to fly away or eat rebui.

Shields always lasts few seconds, but then there is plently of armor left, and that usually last to for T9 making that wake out. Bi-waves main advantage over any other kind of shields, that is these can deny chain-interdictions. As when such happens, bi-waves are usually back online, if fallen, by the time next interdiction ends.

T9, if not mass locked, can easly low wake out from smaller ones, and if mass-locked by conda or cutter or vette, or if attacked by a wing then hiwake with equally ease....

On top of all above, if T9 owner didnt slept on MRP's and have things like armoured FSD and plant, I'd say these can make diffrence too, but that all apply preety much to any ship, not just T9's. Armoured plants and especially FSD - along with some MRP's can make such diffrence that ship might well as run out of its hull points first, than being planted or FSD sniped out. Weakest spot of all T9 are its thrusters (quite durable on its own - its size 7 after all), but long as there is dual MRP in bulid, then drives will not go down before both MRP would.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Earlier today some enemy-pledged anaconda was in one of our systems and they didn't change course at all when I saw them in supercruise and turned to intercept - just absolutely not paying attention, while in enemy space, when a python 2 turns around, bears down on them, and circles around to their rear.

After being interdicted, they adopted the "boost in a straight line" school of defence, which was naturally countered by the "boost faster in a straight line while emptying six hardpoints directly into the target's engines" school of offence.

Classic example of a player following the “common forum wisdom” and actively cooperating with their own destruction. The few times I’ve gone “marauding” as a test, this has been the norm, not the exception.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

It appears that some people in the thread use "ganking" to mean "attacking defenceless beginners", while others are using it more broadly to mean any kind of spontaneous attack on another player (perhaps even including semi-consensual attacks, in line with their in-game character). I always thought it meant the former though.

In practical terms on this forum, regardless of how it gets used elsewhere, it has evolved to mean "any attack the defender doesn't accept the validity of" - noting that the number of defenders who don't essentially have either "all" or "none" as their "valid reasons to be attacked" set is basically non-existent.

Way back, when I still bothered to do anything more than run away from PvP encounters, I was part of a mostly-PvE player group, which was taking part in a high-enough-profile event that occasionally PvPers turned up. There were a few of us around, like me, with limited skill or ship builds but some willingness to at least take a shot at them.

The PvEers leading the group set out what clearly, to them, sounded like sensible rules of engagement, to ensure that their vaguely-PvP wing only attacked other players in justifiable circumstances ... which would have had the consequence that I couldn't have shot at (and this dates it a bit, right?) SDC members without two sets of independent video evidence that they'd been attacking players in this system recently.

Obviously I ignored them entirely and just shot at anyone who was obviously hostile, without much actual success, but it was a good lesson in the real answer to "why don't people band up to be 'good' PvPers and take on the gankers?". [1]



[1] After that experience I went off to be a theoretical BGS researcher and the rest of the PvP-inclined players took up piracy, which I think was better for everyone involved.

 

[Screemonster]

Obviously I ignored them entirely and just shot at anyone who was obviously hostile, without much actual success, but it was a good lesson in the real answer to "why don't people band up to be 'good' PvPers and take on the gankers?". [1]

There is the problem of that other group that still hangs around like a bad smell and every time a new group tries to get started and publicise themselves as the new anti-ganking squadron, those guys show up and immediately join them - which immediately tanks the new group's reputation.