Powerplay Sol bubble Archer systems progress wiped

[Zechs Darius]

you guys have book of grudges? for a forum post? that you really kinda took out of context

and then kinda confirmed



you might or might not have some links to the powers, but when there is a group of powers that are targeting me, and you join the attack (albeit from your own, noble, reasons), you are adding yourself to the attacking group of powers regardless of any diplomatic ties you might be having between yourselves. you might even call it a special military operation and not adress it as a war if you would want to.

It's less a book of grudges and more a list of what we are according to other people.

We, as a power, as a group have been misdefined as far back as two weeks before the launch of PP 2.0. I keep the list as it's a fun example of the aforementioned optics, and the massive contradictions in them.

I'm more than willing to share it for the laughs.

Regarding attacking Winters. Eh. If you want that to stop, then cede the Asetsi bubble. It's the only point of contention we have, and only reason for conflict. Or don't because it's been an enjoyable one for both sides. There are reasons that I'm not terribly bothered that the conflict is continuing.

However... special military operation? Really?

I must say, after being compared to Germany twice on the Winters Reddit, and Trump once in a diplomatic channels (also winters) I'm not sure Putin is an upgrade. Still, it brings me to my next point. If my adversaries, and it is more than fair to say that we're in an adversarial relationship with you guys, dislike how I am doing things then I must be doing a fantastic job.

I'll therefore choose to take the unintended compliment.

 

[Zechs Darius]

Funny how you are still salty over a 3 years old operation and throwing false accusations.

The Mahon op was totally legit and might have taught Mahon supporters that scouting their own systems was a good thing to do after all in PP1.

As for Nakato Kaine, considering the amount of ex-imperial CMDRs in it's leadership, it's just another puppet used against the Federation, because all the groups in ZYADA can't fight us on their own, now they even need Frontiers merits eraser to help them.

As we say in french, "à vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire". And the "vaincre" part remains to be seen.

With apologies to Bulbasaur, i was actually quoting this and misattributing the quote to him.
That's on me.

 

[Dormant account - pls delete]

Regarding attacking Winters. Eh. If you want that to stop, then cede the Asetsi bubble. It's the only point of contention we have, and only reason for conflict.

"If you just give us this piece of territory, because it somehow belongs to us because we are the motherland, there will be no further issue. I don't know why you're complaining about stuff when all we want is some territory because of Reasons."

You have to admit that does sound a liiiiiiittle bit familiar, no?

 

[Zechs Darius]

"If you just give us this piece of territory, because it somehow belongs to us because we are the motherland, there will be no further issue. I don't know why you're complaining about stuff when all we want is some territory because of Reasons."

You have to admit that does sound a liiiiiiittle bit familiar, no?

Or not because it's a fun fight.

If you're gonna quote me use the full thing.

I get your point, but look at mine. Or the powerplay map. Probably that first actually. From a strategic point of view we at EK can't allow that bubble to exist. We don't trust the Feds either. In all honestly because most of EKs command have reasons to distrust them based on firsthand experience.

It blocks most of our plans by existing. So there we are.

Additionally it also covers some systems that are Alliance/Kaine by BGS.

Given the weighting between reinforcing actions/undermining currently it should be no surprise to anyone that the nature of the conflict changed from single system focus to wide focus. Indeed in the discord I flat told the Winters guys it would happen.

It's basically Space Cuba.

Lastly, this is a reply to earlier comments in the thread: it's likely that if EK join ZYADA we'd only do so if Mahon came with us.

So it'd be ZENDAYA.

 

[Rubbernuke]

So it'd be ZENDAYA.

And would render PP2 a total failure.

 

[Zechs Darius]

And would render PP2 a total failure.

One could argue that the Feds ticking off 7/10 non Fed Factions enough that they'd gang up to do them in is less an FDEV failure, more a Fed diplomatic shed show.

 

[Rubbernuke]

One could argue that the Feds ticking off 7/10 non Fed Factions enough that they'd gang up to do them in is less an FDEV failure, more a Fed diplomatic shed show.

PP2 is about being number one, not making friends and establishing a status quo. Its not the fault of the Feds for wanting that.

 

[Zechs Darius]

PP2 is about being number one, not making friends and establishing a status quo. Its not the fault of the Feds for wanting that.

Is it?

See we all have different goals.
Being number one isn't ours. Ours is more a sovereign lime green Old Worlds.

But I suppose if what you say is true then Delaine isn't an ally of Archer, and FUC doesn't exist.

Or ZYADA.

So are you being nieve or disingenuous?

It's a mostly honest, albeit slightly rhetorical question. Because clearly these macrofactions and Alliances exist.

 

[Dormant account - pls delete]

It blocks most of our plans by existing. So there we are.

Oh I see, so... it's in the way of your Manifest Destiny? I mean you're right, the gold in them thar asteroids is vital and it's ridiculous for the Feds to use it all for food and shelter. (There you go, a much older example than boring old 20th Century Europe)

It's basically Space Cuba.

Nah, if it's a chunk of territory providing vital access to galactic trade then I think that makes it Space Panama ...

 

[Rubbernuke]

Is it?

See we all have different goals.
Being number one isn't ours. Ours is more a sovereign lime green Old Worlds.

But I suppose if what you say is true then Delaine isn't an ally of Archer, and FUC doesn't exist.

Or ZYADA.

So are you being nieve or disingenuous?

It's a mostly honest, albeit slightly rhetorical question. Because clearly these macrofactions and Alliances exist.

Then what drives PP2? Why does ZYADA not outright hobble Mahon who ranks above them? Instead its comfortable conflict that will lead to PP1s stagnant situation, with horse trading systems and none of what the devs (on camera) wanted.

 

[Zechs Darius]

Oh I see, so... it's in the way of your Manifest Destiny? I mean you're right, the gold in them thar asteroids is vital and it's ridiculous for the Feds to use it all for food and shelter. (There you go, a much older example than boring old 20th Century Europe)


Nah, if it's a chunk of territory providing vital access to galactic trade then I think that makes it Space Panama ...

Less galactic trade, more could be used to deep strike Alliance core worlds.

So Cuba.

 

[Shadowsnog]

It's less a book of grudges and more a list of what we are according to other people.

We, as a power, as a group have been misdefined as far back as two weeks before the launch of PP 2.0. I keep the list as it's a fun example of the aforementioned optics, and the massive contradictions in them.

I'm more than willing to share it for the laughs.

i, respectfully, couldnt care less what other say about you. i make my own opinions.
and you have a way of presenting yourself...
and from my pov its is kinda way that could invite some more additions to the book of grudges.
blaze your own trail...

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Just for clarity, the conversation so far with Kaine has been

Kaine: "this is ours and we're taking it" (Winters' Lundji sphere)

Winters: "okay, be nice now?"

Kaine: "this is ours and we're taking it because you're weak" (Winters' Asetsi sphere)

Winters: "no"

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Less galactic trade, more could be used to deep strike Alliance core worlds.

So Cuba.

But we're weak and attacked on all sides according to you. How could we threaten your core worlds?

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Moreover, why would we?

 

[Zechs Darius]

Then what drives PP2? Why does ZYADA not outright hobble Mahon who ranks above them? Instead its comfortable conflict that will lead to PP1s stagnant situation, with horse trading systems and none of what the devs (on camera) wanted.

So you basically described what is happening and what will happen.

Players drive MMOs.
BGS wars. PP.

It's all Players. But Players have loyalties. Friends, Rivals, and yes... grudges.

We also have our own goals. I've mentioned the Kaine goals enough times now, you get it.

The leader board means everything to some people/groups and nothing to others.

Some groups will rabidly and dogmatically be their PP group first. Others will mine only for profits or will be Superpower above all.


Who are any of us to tell them they are wrong?


PP2.0 is in danger of being nearly as stagnant as 1.0 due largely to the weighting making evicting a fortified power almost impossible. But Players choosing their goals... that's always going to be a thing.

 

[Zechs Darius]

But we're weak and attacked on all sides according to you. How could we threaten your core worlds?

Weak? No.

Fighting a war on at least 3 fronts. Yes.

Given the likelihood of Mahon-Kaine system transfers in and around ToW as borders neaten, the potential of Fed snipe acquiring Alliance Lore systems is itself unacceptable.

I am so glad that this thread in particular is where we chose to discuss this, all things considered.

As for why: eh you tell us. One guy 2 mins ago literally stated the goal was just to be #1 so land grab for everyone.

 

[Rubbernuke]

So you basically described what is happening and what will happen.

Players drive MMOs.
BGS wars. PP.

It's all Players. But Players have loyalties. Friends, Rivals, and yes... grudges.

We also have our own goals. I've mentioned the Kaine goals enough times now, you get it.

The leader board means everything to some people/groups and nothing to others.

Some groups will rabidly and dogmatically be their PP group first. Others will mine only for profits or will be Superpower above all.


Who are any of us to tell them they are wrong?


PP2.0 is in danger of being nearly as stagnant as 1.0 due largely to the weighting making evicting a fortified power almost impossible. But Players choosing their goals... that's always going to be a thing.

One of the big dangers of Powerplay is blocs like ZYADA and FUC (to a lesser extent) and not each power out for itself. There is zero chance of Jelly Hair or Gran Gran ever contesting Aisling or ALD. Is Yuri Grom attacking any Imperial power? Is Patty trying to get one over on his Imperial rivals?

Otherwise, whats the point of having four Imperial Powers, two Fed and two Alliance? I can at least compliment Kaine for not being chums with Mahon but FD forgot people see Imperial and not the leader behind it.

It all leads to the question of what Powerplays ultimate aim is.

 

[Rubbernuke]

As for why: eh you tell us. One guy 2 mins ago literally stated the goal was just to be #1 so land grab for everyone.

It should be a land grab, equally between 12 powers and ideally directed at those at the top to be #1. Otherwise, whats the point other than to farm for goodies?

 

[Zechs Darius]

Just for clarity, the conversation so far with Kaine has been

Kaine: "this is ours and we're taking it" (Winters' Lundji sphere)

Winters: "okay, be nice now?"

Kaine: "this is ours and we're taking it because you're weak" (Winters' Asetsi sphere)

Winters: "no"

It's really not.

Both spheres were identified as problematic day one.

When you guys asked if we were undermining them I replied directly "yes" with the reasons. The reasons were largely just map neatening.

Not that I am complaining. It's given us all something to do.