The Thargoid War should not be over, We should invade their stuff.. Unlock COL 70 NOW!

[Reggit]

The director made the movie to highlight fascism in an absurd light and fans have actually embraced it at face value.

Read the book by Robert A. Heinlein - it's far more subtle.

The fundamental misunderstanding in the movie of the source material, comes across as intentionally misleading given that the original story espouses a radically liberal (albeit militaristic) worldview; a society based on merit and service to society where those who serve and contribute are given a voice in how society is shaped.
The story is a scathing critique of communism (the bugs represent a communist society). Certain plot points in the movie have been interpreted in such a way that paints the Federation as the aggressor, when in fact it was the bugs who made a pre-emptive strike against Earth in the book.

 

[Rainbro]

So it appears that despite the wishes of the Thargoid Lovers, the war will march on..

When did ending war become a bad thing? For people, I mean, not business.

 

[DjVortex]

On a somewhat tangential note, am I being blind, or is there really no thread about the two most recent galnet news articles, and the player-driven campaign related to them? One of the coolest things ever, and I can't find a single thread about it. (I suppose this very thread is the closest thing, but it's not discussing those galnet articles themselves, nor the campaign, at least not primarily.)

I vividly remember that in the past whenever there was a new galnet article, someone would make a thread about it in Dangerous Discussion. Now, I can't find any. What happened? Did the commander just stop posting them?

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

Read the book by Robert A. Heinlein - it's far more subtle.

The fundamental misunderstanding in the movie of the source material, comes across as intentionally misleading given that the original story espouses a radically liberal (albeit militaristic) worldview; a society based on merit and service to society where those who serve and contribute are given a voice in how society is shaped.
The story is a scathing critique of communism (the bugs represent a communist society). Certain plot points in the movie have been interpreted in such a way that paints the Federation as the aggressor, when in fact it was the bugs who made a pre-emptive strike against Earth in the book.

I own, and have read, the book a few times. I read it before I saw the movie when it was release many moons ago. That's one reason why I didn't think the movie was good. No power armor or advanced tech... just a meat grinder and bugs. And yes, I know the overtones in the book. They were nowhere near as bad as the movie, but it wasn't a great society either.

But the movie even has uniforms that look like wehrmacht and SS uniforms and the fanboys love that too.

Heinlein's books are interesting, but I wouldn't rate them as good. For over-the-top sexism, just read the Puppet Masters. Wow.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

A big THANK you to AXI and Mechan for leading the way... the Proteus Wave system will be swept of bugs.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgvxcQ3LoP4


I can only hope the human thargoid lovers around here can sleep without guilt, after we all risk our lives to free Humanity from the Thargoid menace.

So if we don't agree with your invade Thargoid territory, kill a bugs, we're Thargoid lovers. Yep, no fascism here...

As for you "saving humanity"... ok, look: this is a game, not real life. I didn't sign up for a 2 year, non-stop war. I did my part here and there (ground AX CZs, AX Restoration missions) but I have a life outside this game AND other things I want to do when I play it. But if it assuages your ego, then feel free to think of yourselves as humanities saviors and we're all bug loving scum. Whatever...

Well it appears Commander Mechan found a new bunch of aggressive breed Thargoids..
He is headed to the California Nebula to attack the thargoids there, and fight them in the newly designated AX Combat Zones..

So it appears that despite the wishes of the Thargoid Lovers, the war will march on.. as we slowly start to take the fight to the bugs turf.

Perhaps just not COL 70 yet.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06J7yjzzEdo


And if you don't like the Starship Troopers gifs, here is MIB stomping bugs! (Seriously Goid lovers will come up with any excuse)

Because commentary on people loving Starship Troopers and missing the fascism it was display immediately means we're Thargoid lovers. Oh lord, give me a break.

Also, this MIB image is actually more appropriate. If the Thargoids hadn't invaded, you wouldn't have had to stop them (or stomp them). A far cry from "the only good bug is a dead bug."

 

[aRJay]

Read the book by Robert A. Heinlein - it's far more subtle.

The fundamental misunderstanding in the movie of the source material, comes across as intentionally misleading given that the original story espouses a radically liberal (albeit militaristic) worldview; a society based on merit and service to society where those who serve and contribute are given a voice in how society is shaped.
The story is a scathing critique of communism (the bugs represent a communist society). Certain plot points in the movie have been interpreted in such a way that paints the Federation as the aggressor, when in fact it was the bugs who made a pre-emptive strike against Earth in the book.

The thing is the movies main source material was something called A Bug Hunt at Outpost…
that got rewritten using the names from Heinleins book to try and finally sell it to a studio.

I own, and have read, the book a few times. I read it before I saw the movie when it was release many moons ago. That's one reason why I didn't think the movie was good. No power armor or advanced tech... just a meat grinder and bugs. And yes, I know the overtones in the book. They were nowhere near as bad as the movie, but it wasn't a great society either.

Swapping Juan Ricco from being a tagalog speaking Filipino to what we got in the movie was a bad start.

But the movie even has uniforms that look like wehrmacht and SS uniforms and the fanboys love that too.

Heinlein's books are interesting, but I wouldn't rate them as good. For over-the-top sexism, just read the Puppet Masters. Wow.

I would say some of them are good but some of the stuff set in what was supposed to feel like contemporary society hasn’t aged well.

 

[Reggit]

But the movie even has uniforms that look like wehrmacht and SS uniforms and the fanboys love that too.

To be fair - the German WW2 uniforms do look incredibly good.
They were deliberately intended to be imposing and intimidating, with sharp lines, distinct colors, and recognizable insignia, making them as much of a propaganda tool than just a practical garment.
What all those black and white photos don’t show you is that the trim on all panzertruppen uniforms was pink. Yes, pink! A nice bright hot pink.
To some extent, modern US helmet designs are based on old designs because they were so effective. When you take the camouflage off, it sets off a cultural perception of evil.
Personally, I try not to judge based on something as superficial as aesthetics - I prefer to judge based on actions (I didn't attack the Tharogids initially, but they have cost me one rebuy too many!)

 

[CMDR Willy-Nilly]

To be fair - the German WW2 uniforms do look incredibly good.
They were deliberately intended to be imposing and intimidating, with sharp lines, distinct colors, and recognizable insignia, making them as much of a propaganda tool than just a practical garment.

Absolutely. As you probably know, but maybe not others, the German WW2 uniforms were designed by Hugo Boss.

 

[Phill P]

How about some jail cells for Thargoid Lovers?!?!

What for? What will locking up people who have done nothing wrong achieve?

When nobody can even communicate with the Thargoids, let alone collaborate with them, putting people in jail for it was particularly moronic even for the Fednecks.

All it actually shows is how impotent the feds have been in this war, making pointless attacks on their own citizens to desperately try and cover up the fact they've been utterly useless for the last 2 years. Worthless blowhards who don't get to give anyone orders now.

Same with Col 70. What for? Another idea based on questionable assumptions. Mostly based on the Gnosis being attacked years ago and some speculation that they have a homeworld in there, which is a guess players made up.

Only 1, maybe 2 at most, of the Titans came from anywhere near Col 70, the others came from different directions completely, so even if there was some kind of homeworld they left it long ago. There's no reason to suppose, even if it exists, that it means anything at all to them, or that whatever people do in there will stop or end anything.

As for any lesson people think they might be teaching them, someone clearly missed the memo that they are not scared of anything we do.

 

[Kira Goto]

As for any lesson people think they might be teaching them, someone clearly missed the memo that they are not scared of anything we do.

Piggybacking off this, a little, it is equal parts amusing(ly stupid) and hypocritical of humans to qualify the Thargoids as nothing more than ‘instinctual mindless bugs’ trying not to pull a face but basically every one of our reactions in this war can be put down to an instinctual emotional response without much thought or foresight to long-term consequences to it.

That is also kind of why I get annoyed at being written off with, “Push Thargoids off our turf first, then figure out a solution”… because you just removed any way of figuring one out and they’ll just come back to try again.

I also agree that these supposed counterattacks are only more likely to reinforce any negative views the Thargoids might have of how our species behaves, if they have any effect at all. To add a further twist of irony to it, they may just see us as an annoying pest more, rather than anything that could actually threaten them unless we basically drop all standards and ethics to poke them with a mycoid or Proteus Wave (and even then not very successfully, it seems).

I also don’t get the impression that they pulled out of 22460 (to a monitoring position because I was pulled both going in and out by a passive/neutral Interceptor earlier) from any “overwhelming human victory”, but more as they saw no sense in maintaining that hostile presence (or were actually done with whatever they wanted). But what do I know about how they think.

 

[Isilwen Stardust]

On a somewhat tangential note, am I being blind, or is there really no thread about the two most recent galnet news articles, and the player-driven campaign related to them? One of the coolest things ever, and I can't find a single thread about it. (I suppose this very thread is the closest thing, but it's not discussing those galnet articles themselves, nor the campaign, at least not primarily.)

I vividly remember that in the past whenever there was a new galnet article, someone would make a thread about it in Dangerous Discussion. Now, I can't find any. What happened? Did the commander just stop posting them?

Well it seems the next steps in this Thargoid conflict are clear.. and though the path forward isn't in the COL 70 sector yet, it now seems to run through the California Nebula. (With the sudden appearance of AX conflict zones there)

The way forward is clear, clear the bugs out of our outposts.. Onward to the California Nebula!

These other people can do whatever.. else they want to with their time.

 

[angusmadmac1]

Give them a good little war and forget about what's actually happening . The ole patriot fighting the fight because that's what's being peddled . Nasty invaders taking "our land" .... Jez oh you think humanity would have got a least a few brain cells together . Someone please hit the rest button . Oh hang on its a game and humanity always wins??
Talk about mindless drones

 

[Jmanis]

If the only outcome of all this was... more pew pew... that would be very disappointing.

 

[Rat Catcher]

If the only outcome of all this was... more pew pew... that would be very disappointing.

How selfish!

The jingoistic warrior lords in the game have to have combat and nothing else, to maintain their facade of superiorority...

Everyone knows that!

Yes, it is me being both facetious and sarcastic - but have to acknowledge that there are a few who only have hammers in this game...

 

[aRJay]

I do wonder if we are referencing the wrong movies, perhaps “Wag the Dig” or “Wrong is Right” would be more appropriate.

 

[Kira Goto]

With the sudden appearance of AX conflict zones there

It’s neither “sudden” nor meaningful. They are nothing more than leftovers from a CG that Frontier just… never removed. Sorry to burst that particular bubble.

And if we could do away with that nonsensical notion anyone who wants to end the war by “peace” with the Thargoids to prevent human casualties is a “bug lover”, that would be great too. Ignoring the radicals - which are not representative of either the peace movement or the generally passive Far God Cult - we’ve never done anything to impede the war effort and rather primarily focused on humanitarian activities in it. You know, the thing that still supports the defense efforts without contributing to the mindless killing on both sides.

(Side note : would like some damaged port evacs back, makes for a good gameplay scenario)

And despite that, some people still keep ridiculing the idea and just continue spouting Starship Troopers like you are. The point has already been somewhat made, but you’re not some Thargoid lover just because you don’t want to keep a senseless war and the deaths it causes going.

And if you’d stop and think to be sensible for just a few moments, you’d realize just how massively stupid trying to force your superiority on a much, much older alien species is. But, of course, being sensible and thinking for yourself is not what the powers that orchestrated this war want you to do. And apparently that propaganda has worked quite well on a lot of people.

Semi-RP hat off

I understand that Frontier (probably) should keep the AX content going in some way for that part of the playerbase, but I really would not mind seeing some meaningful interactions for/with the other side that aren’t just shooting them. Or evacuating people from Thargoid-attacked stations, which still is fighting the symptoms just as much, rather than trying for a solution which actually fights the cause.

… but just adding more “Here’s a thing, shoot it” is simpler while everyone else keeps getting the “Thargoids are mysteriously alien” stick waved in front of their noses almost as an excuse not to bother doing any directly or indirectly war-related Thargoid activities. They wouldn’t even need to remove AX from the game, just reveal that there have been different Thargoid factions/hives all along.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

The thing is the movies main source material was something called A Bug Hunt at Outpost…
that got rewritten using the names from Heinleins book to try and finally sell it to a studio.


Swapping Juan Ricco from being a tagalog speaking Filipino to what we got in the movie was a bad start.

I would say some of them are good but some of the stuff set in what was supposed to feel like contemporary society hasn’t aged well.

Yeah, there were a lot of things dropped from the book to the detriment of the movie. In the book, the mobile infantry weren't just powered armor troops, that were trained under grueling conditions similar to Navy Seals, Green Berets, and (I'm assuming) British SAS. So when they lost 100000 troops at Klendathu, it was a much bigger loss than just losing 100000 general infantry. I'm not making light of the number of lives lost, but the rather the difference in impact that would have to a given military.

As for the books: like a lot of classic sci-fi authors that are revered, the books broke ground and introduced new concepts, but the writing isn't very good. For another example, Asimov's works were groundbreaking in concepts, but the writing was merely ok. Actionally, the last Foundation novle was horrible - not the concept, but the writing. He broke the #1 of writers: show, don't tell. That book had chapter after chapter of the two main characters delivering blatant exposition under the guise of them having "intellectual conversations." Blech. By contrast, Arthur C. Clark and Bradbury were good writers - though some may not enjoy their subject matter as much. Frank Herberts Dune (not a big a fan, but I've read it) is actually considered literature due to detailed universe and fully developed characters in his work.

Anyway, enjoy whatever you like - artistic merit isn't everything.

To be fair - the German WW2 uniforms do look incredibly good.
They were deliberately intended to be imposing and intimidating, with sharp lines, distinct colors, and recognizable insignia, making them as much of a propaganda tool than just a practical garment.
What all those black and white photos don’t show you is that the trim on all panzertruppen uniforms was pink. Yes, pink! A nice bright hot pink.
To some extent, modern US helmet designs are based on old designs because they were so effective. When you take the camouflage off, it sets off a cultural perception of evil.
Personally, I try not to judge based on something as superficial as aesthetics - I prefer to judge based on actions (I didn't attack the Tharogids initially, but they have cost me one rebuy too many!)

Yes, I agree, they do look good. They've been used as the basis for other sci-fi uniforms; I'm fairly certain the uniforms of imperial officers in Star Wars were based on their design.

I didn't know about the pink. Wow, that would have really popped.

I'm not surprised US helmet designs are/were based on theirs. There is a lot of tech/designs based on what the Germans had in WW2.

I also agree on not judging aesthetics alone. What concerns me is when fanboys embrace the whole package and start to act/think like fascists. I have no problem with Starship Troopers, per se, nor things based on it. Helldivers doubles-down on what that movie did, again for humorous effect. What's disconcerting is when people start becoming fans of that mindset at face value, rather than realizing the satire involved. Heck, it used to be a given that the Empire in Star Wars was bad. Then, about 20 years ago, someone made a joke about the Empire was good and the Rebels acted like terrorists. Today you have a number of people that actually say the Empire is good, or that both sides are good, etc.

The opinion of the fictional setting itself isn't what bothers me; it's the mindset of the people that sincerely espouse it. The popularity of authoritarianism is on the rise. There was a time when everyone agreed Nazis were bad (or they dissented, but kept quiet out of shame). Now they brazenly challenge that concept. Anyway, that's why the Starship trooper imagery and "Only good bug is a dead bug" bothered me.

Absolutely. As you probably know, but maybe not others, the German WW2 uniforms were designed by Hugo Boss.

I think I heard that before and then forgot about it. Regardless, that doesn't surprise me. As I mentioned above, they were very well designed uniforms.

 

[Reggit]

Oh hang on its a game...

Bingo

 

[SergMx]

Yeah, there were a lot of things dropped from the book to the detriment of the movie. In the book, the mobile infantry weren't just powered armor troops, that were trained under grueling conditions similar to Navy Seals, Green Berets, and (I'm assuming) British SAS. So when they lost 100000 troops at Klendathu, it was a much bigger loss than just losing 100000 general infantry. I'm not making light of the number of lives lost, but the rather the difference in impact that would have to a given military.

As for the books: like a lot of classic sci-fi authors that are revered, the books broke ground and introduced new concepts, but the writing isn't very good. For another example, Asimov's works were groundbreaking in concepts, but the writing was merely ok. Actionally, the last Foundation novle was horrible - not the concept, but the writing. He broke the #1 of writers: show, don't tell. That book had chapter after chapter of the two main characters delivering blatant exposition under the guise of them having "intellectual conversations." Blech. By contrast, Arthur C. Clark and Bradbury were good writers - though some may not enjoy their subject matter as much. Frank Herberts Dune (not a big a fan, but I've read it) is actually considered literature due to detailed universe and fully developed characters in his work.

Anyway, enjoy whatever you like - artistic merit isn't everything.

Yes, I agree, they do look good. They've been used as the basis for other sci-fi uniforms; I'm fairly certain the uniforms of imperial officers in Star Wars were based on their design.

I didn't know about the pink. Wow, that would have really popped.

I'm not surprised US helmet designs are/were based on theirs. There is a lot of tech/designs based on what the Germans had in WW2.

I also agree on not judging aesthetics alone. What concerns me is when fanboys embrace the whole package and start to act/think like fascists. I have no problem with Starship Troopers, per se, nor things based on it. Helldivers doubles-down on what that movie did, again for humorous effect. What's disconcerting is when people start becoming fans of that mindset at face value, rather than realizing the satire involved. Heck, it used to be a given that the Empire in Star Wars was bad. Then, about 20 years ago, someone made a joke about the Empire was good and the Rebels acted like terrorists. Today you have a number of people that actually say the Empire is good, or that both sides are good, etc.

The opinion of the fictional setting itself isn't what bothers me; it's the mindset of the people that sincerely espouse it. The popularity of authoritarianism is on the rise. There was a time when everyone agreed Nazis were bad (or they dissented, but kept quiet out of shame). Now they brazenly challenge that concept. Anyway, that's why the Starship trooper imagery and "Only good bug is a dead bug" bothered me.



I think I heard that before and then forgot about it. Regardless, that doesn't surprise me. As I mentioned above, they were very well designed uniforms.

I don't remember the details of Star Troopers well, I read the book in the 80s. I remember the sergeant saying that your body is worthless and the battle suit is very expensive. And I imagined they were mini-mechs. Space Marines. A platoon is clearing out a city. And I was really upset about what they turned it into in the movie.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

When did ending war become a bad thing? For people, I mean, not business.

in a game where killing is part of it... war can be a lot of fun.
(now I have the cannon fodder theme stuck in my head)