COMPLETED CG Brewer Corporation Planetary Survey Initiative (Exploration)

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DemiserofD

D
Rubbernuke said:
The security slider shows how its going, panel UI tells you to bounty hunt and do, stations also have bounty boards and also have hints- its all there.

The rest is there too- the player can either scan for USS' or go to a nav....there is no 'where' to it. Get in the system, scan the NAV etc and just fly about.
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Except it's not there, because it isn't working.

That's the great thing about this sort of thing. If it works, you can instantly tell, because people aren't confused and they don't complain!

People can be wrong about a lot of things. They can be wrong about what they want, even. But they're never wrong about being frustrated. That is the one thing that should always be taken 100% seriously. Even if the solution is nowhere near what people think they want.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
DemiserofD said:
Except it's not there, because it isn't working.

That's the great thing about this sort of thing. If it works, you can instantly tell, because people aren't confused and they don't complain!

People can be wrong about a lot of things. They can be wrong about what they want, even. But they're never wrong about being frustrated. That is the one thing that should always be taken 100% seriously. Even if the solution is nowhere near what people think they want.
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A good starting point would be to actually interact with the UI. For example I don't explore and am not that familiar with that kind of stuff in the UI. I don't throw a wobbly and say I can't find something when I have to scan or do something. I actually go through the UI and actually find out.

There is also a trend in games to hold your hand where you are told everything- at some point players have to start to join the dots and be proactive about growing skills.
 

Shadowsnog

Shadowsnog
DemiserofD said:
Except it's not there, because it isn't working.
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what part of these systems in your opinion dont work? sys sec bar shows slider moving, station and map show sys status and say what it is. sys chat is working.
DemiserofD said:
That's the great thing about this sort of thing. If it works, you can instantly tell, because people aren't confused and they don't complain!
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respectfully you seem to be the only one having problems with the ui. and respectfully, there will always be someone complaining about something. cant please every crybaby...
DemiserofD said:
But they're never wrong about being frustrated. That is the one thing that should always be taken 100% seriously. Even if the solution is nowhere near what people think they want.
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people are also responsible for regulating their own emotions. emotional outburst isnt motivation enough to change the game, despite people having all the right to feel whatever they want to feel. and most of the innovations you were mentioning were just trying to reinvent the wheel. a wheel that has been working for a decade now. there is a lot of things not working correctly in the game, but this aint it chief.

also this is a game for space nerds. respectfully, games for space nerds arent usually aimed at 60 iq people. and it is part of the appeal of this game. no mans space fortnite or loadingscreenfield might work differently, but this is elite dangerous. do you know the ai generated gabe newell commentary on csgo2 skins? it similar sentiment. and we like it like that.
you are expected to use your brain, to use your fingers, to figure it out, to earn your place, your rank, your title and your merits in this game. a cutthroat galaxy (where already most of knives are made from cotton candy).
so with all due respect
the bar is already low enough. git gud.
 

DemiserofD

D
Shadowsnog said:
what part of these systems in your opinion dont work? sys sec bar shows slider moving, station and map show sys status and say what it is. sys chat is working.

respectfully you seem to be the only one having problems with the ui. and respectfully, there will always be someone complaining about something. cant please every crybaby...

people are also responsible for regulating their own emotions. emotional outburst isnt motivation enough to change the game, despite people having all the right to feel whatever they want to feel. and most of the innovations you were mentioning were just trying to reinvent the wheel. a wheel that has been working for a decade now. there is a lot of things not working correctly in the game, but this aint it chief.

also this is a game for space nerds. respectfully, games for space nerds arent usually aimed at 60 iq people. and it is part of the appeal of this game. no mans space fortnite or loadingscreenfield might work differently, but this is elite dangerous. do you know the ai generated gabe newell commentary on csgo2 skins? it similar sentiment. and we like it like that.
you are expected to use your brain, to use your fingers, to figure it out, to earn your place, your rank, your title and your merits in this game. a cutthroat galaxy (where already most of knives are made from cotton candy).
so with all due respect
the bar is already low enough. git gud.
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I want this game to be as accessible as possible to as many people as possible, because the more money IT makes, the more content I get.

Don't let elitism get in the way of success.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Bigmaec said:
Was there a DTEA Video about making billions with it? Then no :cool:
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Rubbernuke said:
A good starting point would be to actually interact with the UI. For example I don't explore and am not that familiar with that kind of stuff in the UI. I don't throw a wobbly and say I can't find something when I have to scan or do something. I actually go through the UI and actually find out.

There is also a trend in games to hold your hand where you are told everything- at some point players have to start to join the dots and be proactive about growing skills.
Click to expand...
The UI isn't at fault imo, rather, the total lack of impact the BGS has on the game these days, in-part due to the grossly imbalanced economy.

Outbreak and Famine both served up 1500-2000cr/t profits which were top-tier... Boom and "seeking luxuries" had a similar consideration, while bust had its Narcotics trade. As such, people sought out how to cause these states despite the lack of it.

People wouldn't get out of bed for those sorts of profits these days... you don't need to look far for a core mining thread where someone asks "did FD nerf mineral prices" is somewhat testament to the fact people just watch the next video guide to get fat profits without learning the BGS, because its irrelevant to most of those activities nowadays. It's highlighted mostly by people seeming to understand that different states cause HGEs drop different mats because that's what the guide told them... but that knowledge in itself would actually be quite "deep" understanding, compared to "trade for profit causes boom" which should be intuitively obvious.

Lockdown is just the last remnant of the BGS' former glory... i personally hate the station shutdown effect it has, but know that the likelihood of that being removed and BGS states as a whole becoming more disruptive like they should be, is very slim.

Incidentally, while FD still made the wrong call extending IMO, look what's going on now. Am otherwise forgettable CG to deliver rocky/icy exploration reports now has tension, investment from two sides and is actually drawing people in.

That's all from a negative outcome of the BGS. We need more of that[1], not less. It's only when it matters to the game experience that makes people find out about mechanics. PP2 and the Thargoid war both demonstrated that.

[1] geared in a way that fosters engagement... not detracts from it. People only care about Lockdown this time because of the cg... otherwise it's a pretty boring state and just "removes" things.
 
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Scienti5t

S
As to the UI letting you know, the Thargoid war had system warnings when you were entering and we have the system summary with main star and government.

Something could be added there.
 

Rainbro

Rainbro
I've been away from the game for a little while, but doesn't a faction rep give a quote along the lines of "we're in Lockdown, help us remove it by doing X"? Either directly on the main menu or the mission board if I remember rightly.

I do understand why some are frustrated, though. No matter how much information is in-game (and Elite has a long way to go on that), most players learn by experience. And Elite is 99℅ the same gameplay loops, and then 1℅ of some weird janky nonsense you've never come across or heard of. You can have thousands of hours doing trade runs and then you wander off the well-developed path and, oh, trade beacon signal source from ten years ago the devs probably forgot can still happen. Completely useless engineering upgrade. Installation heist scenario that is physically impossible and doesn't have a reward anyway. Enemy player that has gear 100x as good as the NPCs you've learnt to fight. Weird BGS coincidences that line up once every three years to disable your CG.

Maybe the information to predict it was technically there, but who the hell is going to read through the encyclopedia from page 1 to learn all that before it happens? I don't think anyone has. If you think you did, you probably just don't remember what the game was like several thousand hours ago, before you picked up this mostly useless knowledge through osmosis.

I don't think there's a way to fix this. There are always going to be niche scenarios that players don't know about until they run into them. Maybe the only relevant part of this problem for this CG is the perception that CGs must always succeed, and that anything else is wrong and should have been forewarned in neon lettering to new players when making their account so that everyone knows how to prevent it from ever happening.

Reminds me of UA bombing, may it rest in peace. Completely counterable, weighted in favour of the defending side, and still managed to catch everyone off guard when it happened somewhere important, like the Dove Enigma. Because who's going to be on the lookout for the 1% chance they haven't run into yet? UA bombing got removed, I think simplifying the niche interactions out is the only possible "solution" to these frustrations and it would be a shame.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Scienti5t said:
As to the UI letting you know, the Thargoid war had system warnings when you were entering and we have the system summary with main star and government.

Something could be added there.
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I mean, when you plot course, you see this on the galaxy map:
1739662063442.png

When you jump, you get this:
1739662096042.png

And then in system there's this:
1739662298346.png


...and a litany of other things?

The thing is, there's problems with the HUD display and such that goes into a very OT discussion about the UX of Elite Dangerous that adding this info won't make a difference, because generally that HUD display gets ignored.

The problem really is that people just don't care about these things, because they don't affect day to day play in the way they should... things like it affecting a CG like this is probably the only time you'll ever see anyone care about it. If the security state or economic state of factions isn't a first-class consideration when entering a system (and it currently isn't)... you could slap up stuff on literally every screen and people would still be surprised.

In short, people only care when something affects them.... for a system that is meant to affect the whole populated galaxy, that effect is clearly not noticable enough, until something like this happens.
 
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Cmdr Beachy

Cmdr Beachy
I've been catching 10's mils of bounties over the last few evenings for Brewer Logistics but I'm yet to see that needle move anywhere away from the middle of the red. Seems pretty unlikely the lockdown is going to lift.

It's a shame FDev didn't just jump the carrier to a nearby system which seems like a more sensible approach all around (including narratively)..
 

Tifu

Tifu
DemiserofD said:
People can be wrong about a lot of things. They can be wrong about what they want, even. But they're never wrong about being frustrated. That is the one thing that should always be taken 100% seriously. Even if the solution is nowhere near what people think they want.
Click to expand...

Sometimes, the experts forget how to see the world through normal eyes. And that's why they often get it wrong.
 

DemiserofD

D
Honestly this is why I'm fascinated by Behavioral Economics. Rory Sutherland has some great videos, exploring how people are very rarely rational, and how tiny things can make huge positive (or negative) impacts, while massive interventions can actually do almost nothing. Human behavior is more akin to climatology than physics.

 
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Screemonster

Screemonster
Jmanis said:
The problem really is that people just don't care about these things, because they don't affect day to day play in the way they should... things like it affecting a CG like this is probably the only time you'll ever see anyone care about it. If the security state or economic state of factions isn't a first-class consideration when entering a system (and it currently isn't)... you could slap up stuff on literally every screen and people would still be surprised.
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A huge factor is also the way that the vast vast vast vast vast vast majority of organic interactions for players (such as missions, trade, bountyhunting, and so on) are a net positive for the controlling faction both economically and in terms of security. At least in the old BGS the boom and bust buckets filled separately so while boom might trigger more often as a result of being filled three times by the time the bust bucket gets filled once, at least bust and lockdown did trigger organically from time to time.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Screemonster said:
A huge factor is also the way that the vast vast vast vast vast vast majority of organic interactions for players (such as missions, trade, bountyhunting, and so on) are a net positive for the controlling faction both economically and in terms of security. At least in the old BGS the boom and bust buckets filled separately so while boom might trigger more often as a result of being filled three times by the time the bust bucket gets filled once, at least bust and lockdown did trigger organically from time to time.
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Yeah, Elite: Best Friends is very real.. but those impacts are still barely noticable in the game's current economy, if the states still functioned that way.
 
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