Elite Dangerous | System Colonisation Beta Details & Feedback

Quintium

Q
My feedback from hauling goods for a while now.

I have fun with this and done everything so far by myself. I can see it is not for everyone, but not every feature should be for everyone. Just IMHO.

Now, on to what I feel on individual items. I'm sure some is repeats by others and I'm sure there are disagreements. But it is just my opinions and just feel I need to express them.

  • The initial cost of 25 million is too low. It should be ranged depending on what type of station to begin with. A largest stations should cost a billion.
    • A lot of credits are earned back from material delivery anyway.
    • It should be OK to lose credits to slow down expansion.
  • Material delivery done by the architect could be a different reward. Possible a credit system that can go against buying global tire 2 and 3 points.
  • We should be allowed to place where the initial station is placed. Make it part of the beacon. 24 hours to place beacon. When beacon is placed, have remaining time of those 24 hours given to place the initial station location
  • Sure it is cool looking, but the initial colonization ship makes no sense. At least not from what I have seen so far. Other orbital constructions have a construction site that makes more sense. The ship is just there and then the initial station magically appear when last material is delivered. Construction site is more immersive. even tho the stations also magically appear.
    • I know it is a lot more game asset work, but gradual structures appear as delivery is done, would be way more immersive. Of course. Still a beta
  • Descriptions in Navigation panel and on system map are way too limited. Doesn't even mention what type of station, what benefits, etc. Just "Construction complete" or "This is a facility" is not helpful.
    • Some of us forget what we built :)
  • There has to be a better view to show materials needed on constructions. The one in System map (after the time it takes to find it) isn't even ordered alphabetically. Pain.
  • The detail changes (wealth, security, population) etc. would be nice to have as a global view for the system as well. How the different structures build, actually interact with the system at all time.
    • For example, if I can see security globally is way down, then I could prioritize building more security
  • Tier points earned shouldn't be the same. I have had T1 structures that took about 6000 tons. And some that took 30K tons. And both earned me one T2 point.
    • We should be rewarded by the level of effort it takes.
  • The doubling of required T2 and T3 points seems a little extreme. Especially if you can't share those points across your claimed systems.
    • Sharing T2/T3 points globally across claims, give limited planet body systems a better chance to be populated. If there is just one star and one planet (example only), then if one grind enough points in a different system, one should be allowed to place a T3 settlement on that one solo planet and give it some meaning.
    • Understand this is to limit the structures to be build in a system. But then consider hard limits instead on what is built.
  • There should be more openness from the FDevs on what they really intent from this system they have built. Better documentation. Better understanding on how the stations, settlements, and installations interact with each other.
    • And a better bug overview and how they plan to tackle it. So we don't have to hunt down a YT video for every bug. Give us a chance to understand what we shouldn't be doing and then sit with a system that just not working
  • The delete button have been mentioned plenty.
    • If finished built, well, a deconstruction option maybe. How to do that I can't say myself. Hauling away materials may be too much.
  • The planetary construction sites are dead. No NPCs doing work or security walking around. Needs a lot more of immersion
    • Beta, get it. Could be worked on. Is it tho? More openness needed.

I may have forgot a few things I would like to see. But maybe that is for another post.

Just my 2 credit worth of opinion.

CMDR Quintium
HIP 74775 is open for Biowaste business...
 

DemiserofD

D
Paul_Crowther said:
Greetings Commanders,

With the launch of our Trailblazers update we will be bringing System Colonisation to Elite Dangerous! The launch of System Colonisation will be as a live Beta for the feature, allowing us to review data and make adjustments over time. This is a significant update to Elite Dangerous and whilst we are very happy with the feature we do understand that some fine tuning may be required initially.

Though this is a Beta it will be on the live version of the game and any actions/progress made will NOT be wiped unless a significant issue is identified. Here is a brief explanation of how the Beta works:

✅ What the System Colonisation Beta is
  • Feature complete
  • All actions/resource payments made are final and will not be refunded
  • A period where we can monitor data and make balancing adjustments

❌ What the System Colonisation Beta is not
  • A work in progress
  • There will be no progress wipes
  • There will be no resource refunds

The aim of the Beta is to gather data and feedback specifically focused on resource balancing. We are happy with the System Colonisation feature itself and whilst we are always happy for you to share your feedback the aim of this Beta is aimed firmly at resource balancing and not changes to the feature itself.

To help us in our balancing we will be using this thread for you to share your feedback on the following areas:
  • Amount of resources required
  • Amount of time/distance taken to complete tasks
As always you are welcome to share additional feedback on the forums or to raise an issues you encounter on our Issue Tracker.
Click to expand...
We're getting quite a few chains of barely developed systems at the moment, largely due to the flat limit on colonization range of 16ly. If you've got a target 30ly away, you're not going to bother fully developing the stepping stone.
What if the range of colonization were tied to a system's development level? So, like, an undeveloped outpost just has the standard 16ly(or less), but a fully-developed system could colonize much further away, maybe as much as 32-48ly.
That way, instead of having all these stepping stones, you'd encourage players to develop their systems, saving the effort. Maybe give system architects a secondary bonus too, while you're at it. So maybe the standard colonization range is 16ly, and then you get an extra ly of range per development point, and the architect gets a 25% bonus on all that extra range. So with 10 development points, most players could colonize out to 26ly, and the architect could colonize to 28.5ly.
 

kepler68

kepler68
Biggest pain point i'm seeing both running theoretical numbers and from talking with those who have systems:

T2 and T3 point scaling should scale seperately!!! And for starports only! This currently makes it so that build order is a huge issue if you try and make multiple ports early, and you need to pretty much plan the whole system out at the start!!!

IMO make all non-port structures relatively standard (T1 gives 1 T2 point, T2 turns a point into a T3 point, etc.)
Non dockables cost dont scale with how many ports you have built. A large surface outpost should cost the same in a new system as it does in a nearly full one.

Make starports initially the best point conversion, but with diminishing returns.
EG your first coriolis or asteroid costs two T2 points but gives three T3 points! Then the second costs three and gives three, the third costs four and gives three, etc.
Same with outposts. First gives 2 points, every after only gives 1.

The mystery stats likely make the point conversion costs on a lot of these make much more sense, but the scaling purely on number of major starports/surface ports should only affect within their own tier!
 

Archie73

Archie73
So after reading this forum, I returned to my system and completed the following Space Hubs.

1 x Industrial
1 x Scientific.

My Coriolis now has a shipyard (basic, but can at least put my T9 there now as a central jump point)
The Scientific hub now has Universal Cartographics.

Interestingly, for powerplay, I can also influence the station faction to bring my pledged power into the station. Currently working on that via missions/powerplay data etc.
I don't recall seeing my "own system" on the powerplay map before so that is a cool feature now (not sure it relates to the Space hub builds??)

Honestly, Space Hubs are child's play after building a Coriolis solo!
 

dmantacos

D
My thoughts overall:

Credit Cost:
I don't really know what you guys are going for here to be honest. The 25m cost makes me think you want newer CMDRs engaging with this mechanic, but the randomness of station spawns (my first station spawned 150kLs out) and sheer material quantities make this mechanic essentially reliant on having an FC.

Material Costs / Gameplay Loop:
Material costs for T1 are fine, T2 are meh, T3 are wayyyy too high IF the intention is to pigeon hole players into 1 specific monotonous gameplay loop. I don't have an issue with how much time it takes to build a T3 station, but gameplay wise it is awful. I think one of the main draws of this game is that there is some gameplay loop for every CMDR, and you're never tied down to one thing for too long, this completely ruins that dynamic. I personally enjoy exploration and have spent hundreds of hours doing that, I also really do NOT enjoy hauling. I think forcing players to grind one specific gameplay loop to engage with a huge mechanic is against the spirit of the game and will drastically hinder expansion in the future (The sentiment I've heard from other players has been largely "I'll do it once, but never again"). I would absolutely love to see some way for commanders to "hire" NPCs to haul for them, maybe you can station haulers on your FC and give them buy/sell orders for the current system's stations. The fact of the matter is that this game does not have MMO player numbers, most players play on solo, so balancing T3 stations around "large groups of players" may be helpful in limiting the expansion power of large player factions, but it disproportionally hurts solo commanders (which is the primary playerbase). These are also not community goals, players who contribute to systems that they do not own gain nothing for their participation, so again, balancing around large groups of players makes no sense

Build System
The points/build system in general just needs way more in game documentation as it can be quite un-intuitive

You should 100% be able to pick where your first port goes, the randomness adds nothing of value and serves only as an inconvenience.

Please provide way more documentation on what types of settlements sell what, the interaction of "economy influence" with offered goods at ports, and just general information about what the system stats (economy, population, security) etc. actually do ingame.

General Concept
I love it, being able to change the landscape of the BGS is amazing

ARX / Renaming
I think you should offer a system "Bulk Cost" for players who want to build many ports and give them thematic names, as it is now large systems may end up costing thousands of dollars to players, prohibitive! Unpopular opinion, but I do not want players to be able to rename entire systems, many of these stars' names reflect massive efforts on the part of the scientific community or even centuries of historic significance, I think any space nerd can appreciate the history behind many of these names.

Overall, I think you guys are bringing such refreshment to this game, and I'm so happy to see it, but I hope you rebalance colonization around individual commanders and their interest for many facets of the game beyond trade.
 
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BDelacroix

BDelacroix
Yesterday I had something over 11k population. Medium Security and an economy.
Today---
1741912315926.png
 

Xenia_K

Xenia_K
Quintium said:
My feedback from hauling goods for a while now.

I have fun with this and done everything so far by myself. I can see it is not for everyone, but not every feature should be for everyone. Just IMHO.

Now, on to what I feel on individual items. I'm sure some is repeats by others and I'm sure there are disagreements. But it is just my opinions and just feel I need to express them.

  • The initial cost of 25 million is too low. It should be ranged depending on what type of station to begin with. A largest stations should cost a billion.
    • A lot of credits are earned back from material delivery anyway.
    • It should be OK to lose credits to slow down expansion.
  • Material delivery done by the architect could be a different reward. Possible a credit system that can go against buying global tire 2 and 3 points.
  • We should be allowed to place where the initial station is placed. Make it part of the beacon. 24 hours to place beacon. When beacon is placed, have remaining time of those 24 hours given to place the initial station location
  • Sure it is cool looking, but the initial colonization ship makes no sense. At least not from what I have seen so far. Other orbital constructions have a construction site that makes more sense. The ship is just there and then the initial station magically appear when last material is delivered. Construction site is more immersive. even tho the stations also magically appear.
    • I know it is a lot more game asset work, but gradual structures appear as delivery is done, would be way more immersive. Of course. Still a beta
  • Descriptions in Navigation panel and on system map are way too limited. Doesn't even mention what type of station, what benefits, etc. Just "Construction complete" or "This is a facility" is not helpful.
    • Some of us forget what we built :)
  • There has to be a better view to show materials needed on constructions. The one in System map (after the time it takes to find it) isn't even ordered alphabetically. Pain.
  • The detail changes (wealth, security, population) etc. would be nice to have as a global view for the system as well. How the different structures build, actually interact with the system at all time.
    • For example, if I can see security globally is way down, then I could prioritize building more security
  • Tier points earned shouldn't be the same. I have had T1 structures that took about 6000 tons. And some that took 30K tons. And both earned me one T2 point.
    • We should be rewarded by the level of effort it takes.
  • The doubling of required T2 and T3 points seems a little extreme. Especially if you can't share those points across your claimed systems.
    • Sharing T2/T3 points globally across claims, give limited planet body systems a better chance to be populated. If there is just one star and one planet (example only), then if one grind enough points in a different system, one should be allowed to place a T3 settlement on that one solo planet and give it some meaning.
    • Understand this is to limit the structures to be build in a system. But then consider hard limits instead on what is built.
  • There should be more openness from the FDevs on what they really intent from this system they have built. Better documentation. Better understanding on how the stations, settlements, and installations interact with each other.
    • And a better bug overview and how they plan to tackle it. So we don't have to hunt down a YT video for every bug. Give us a chance to understand what we shouldn't be doing and then sit with a system that just not working
  • The delete button have been mentioned plenty.
    • If finished built, well, a deconstruction option maybe. How to do that I can't say myself. Hauling away materials may be too much.
  • The planetary construction sites are dead. No NPCs doing work or security walking around. Needs a lot more of immersion
    • Beta, get it. Could be worked on. Is it tho? More openness needed.

I may have forgot a few things I would like to see. But maybe that is for another post.

Just my 2 credit worth of opinion.

CMDR Quintium
HIP 74775 is open for Biowaste business...
Click to expand...
^--^ 100% that. Like
 

Mallorn

M
Here's my feedback on colonization so far acting as a single commander with a single system.

The material requirements are ok for the T1 and T2 structures but rather insane for a T3 and frankly even with the T2 it gets tedious shipping 784 tons at a time in a Cutter. I went out and bought a shiny new Fleet Carrier and that did help a lot but to be honest the most fun part about hauling is when you've dropped off the huge aluminium, steel, titanium and CMM requirememts and get to visit lots of different star systems and ports picking up the smaller quanities of everything else. The other nice thing with this approach is that an FC won't really help much with it so it puts all of us on a more even footing.

My suggestion here would be to either reduce the major bulk requirement numbers (steel, aluminium etc.) and increase the other materials or even add more different ones - it will make the hauling more varied and fun. For T3 installations we need a ship with a greater hauling capacity though - you perhaps hinted at that with the statement about the June new ship being something that should make us happy so I'm hoping that will finally be the Panther Clipper or something equivalent but for T3 constructions something like that - assuming it has a comparable hauling capacity as it did in FEII of about 2000 tons (3-4 class 9 or even 1-2 class 10 cargo bays!).

The reward for building installations is somewhat lacking. Letting us know about quality of life, tech level, initial and max population etc. per facility is not enough, we need to have some idea of what that means and how it relates to "% happy" which the weekly payments mention. I'm guessing QoL increases help there? I guess? No way to know though and it takes far, far too much effort to build each installation for us to find out by playing around. Frankly, the chief reward for me so far has been seeing the system come to life and finally (this week) get a functioning Coriolis - which is definitely a testament to a great game - but if I'm going to invest the huge time and effort in a T3 structure I need to know more details of what the impact will be on the system compared to a cheaper T2. It will also help with things like getting a shipyard and cartographics services functional. We don't necessaily need stats just guidance like shipyards need wealth and tech to activate and improve and cartographics needs whatever it does before it starts up etc.

The construction point system seems rather inconsistent. First, as others note, two structures with hugely different costs give the same number of points/. This needs to be fixed. Second doubling the construction points after "two ports" (which is unclear whether it includes just orbiting ones or planetary as well) is quite extreme and not well rationalized. Instead, given that I'm guessing system population will increase with time up to some max (given that you have initial and max pop stats) why not set population thresholds for ports? This would stop systems with large numbers of ports unless they also have large populations which seems reasonable and would also give us a reason to move on after some initial system development and then come back later to add more, encouraging a more organic growth rather than build everything all at once and never return.

Of course that only works well once you have allowed us to move on to a new system and with that in mind how about doubling the allowed range from 16 Ly to 32Ly when there are at least N% of systems within 16 Ly are colonized? That would keep the colonization expansion to your currentl planned rate while still allowing us to move past areas with gaps or to enable more "trapped" factions to colonize.

Anyway I hope that's useful feedback. Colonization is definitely a great new feature....any news on when we will be able to make new claims?
 

Ydiss

Ydiss
Paul Shroom said:
What would be nice......
The ability to build without hauling goods.
Hiring pilots that could bring some of your ships to take goods to your building project

I just got the confirmation email from devs................

"Hey CMDR,

Thanks for getting back in touch.

You are correct. Apologies for the oversight.

Your aligned faction is Black Alliance Industries and it should've been added to LHS 3213 as a third faction but I can see that this did not happen.

We suspect that this system is currently not working as it should and please rest assured that this is currently under active investigation.

Apologies for any inconvenience caused.

If we can help with anything else, please feel free to reach out again."
Click to expand...
Thanks for letting me know :)
 

TheRoninX

T
Paul Shroom said:
What would be nice......
The ability to build without hauling goods.
Hiring pilots that could bring some of your ships to take goods to your building project

I just got the confirmation email from devs................

"Hey CMDR,

Thanks for getting back in touch.

You are correct. Apologies for the oversight.

Your aligned faction is Black Alliance Industries and it should've been added to LHS 3213 as a third faction but I can see that this did not happen.

We suspect that this system is currently not working as it should and please rest assured that this is currently under active investigation.

Apologies for any inconvenience caused.

If we can help with anything else, please feel free to reach out again."
Click to expand...
What's the point of a hauling update if there is no need to haul? It's just an AFK spreadsheet manager at that point.
 

CMDR Ecaep

CMDR Ecaep
TheRoninX said:
What's the point of a hauling update if there is no need to haul? It's just an AFK spreadsheet manager at that point.
Click to expand...
I believe the point is that this isn't a "hauling update" it is the Trail Blazers update. More than space truckers could benefit.

For miners, why not missions to mine and deliver goods, possibly using the new refinery contacts, that are nearly as effective advancing the progress bar as hauling?

For combat pilots, providing protection to NPC convoys that would advance the progress, as has been suggested several times in this thread.

For pirates, have generic NPC convoys going to other systems that can be stopped, and their cargo bays emptied and stolen, then taking to the pirate's colony system. We just need NPCs hauling the correct goods to be found around the galaxy.

There are other gameplay loops that could work as well. Maybe even Odyssey content. Introducing different gameplay loops that advance colonization or the improvement of one's system keeps the game interesting, and prevents hauling burnout.
 

Beepity Boop

B
Adding additional entries to the piles of:
  • There should be a way to control where the initial station is placed
  • There should be a "cancel construction" button that does exactly what it sounds like. A "move construction" button would be nice as well and would at least be an imperfect workaround to the above
  • The fact that later ports and stations cost more points to build is, frankly, nonsensical; if anything, it should be easierto add new stations and settlements in a well-developed system
    • T3 point costs in general are too high; T2s can be built with a single T1, but T3s need between three to six T2s for the first, let alone with the price increase
  • T1/T2 constructions should be able to be upgraded, one way or another
  • The 16ly range was incorrect, and the actual 15ly range is far too small
  • Emergency Power Cells either need to be available outside of a 30ly-radius from the Akhenaten system, or they need to not be required for construction; it's doable now, while the bubble is still relatively small, but the supply lines are quickly going to get far too long for that to be feasible.
  • Commodity requirements for planetary construction are too high given how much longer it takes to land on / take off from a planet compared to an orbital construction site
  • It feels odd that there can only be so few settlements on entire planets, i.e. the caps are too low. The same goes for orbital constructions, which can simply be built at different altitude bands; see LEO vs MEO (for GPS) or GEO in real life
 
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TheRoninX

T
CMDR Ecaep said:
I believe the point is that this isn't a "hauling update" it is the Trail Blazers update. More than space truckers could benefit.

For miners, why not missions to mine and deliver goods, possibly using the new refinery contacts, that are nearly as effective advancing the progress bar as hauling?

For combat pilots, providing protection to NPC convoys that would advance the progress, as has been suggested several times in this thread.

For pirates, have generic NPC convoys going to other systems that can be stopped, and their cargo bays emptied and stolen, then taking to the pirate's colony system. We just need NPCs hauling the correct goods to be found around the galaxy.

There are other gameplay loops that could work as well. Maybe even Odyssey content. Introducing different gameplay loops that advance colonization or the improvement of one's system keeps the game interesting, and prevents hauling burnout.
Click to expand...
Looks like a hauling update to me considering it's the main gameplay loop with the addition of mining due to refinery. Not everything needs to be automated. Other stuff you listed is wishful thinking.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
CMDR Ecaep said:
I believe the point is that this isn't a "hauling update" it is the Trail Blazers update. More than space truckers could benefit.

For miners, why not missions to mine and deliver goods, possibly using the new refinery contacts, that are nearly as effective advancing the progress bar as hauling?

For combat pilots, providing protection to NPC convoys that would advance the progress, as has been suggested several times in this thread.

For pirates, have generic NPC convoys going to other systems that can be stopped, and their cargo bays emptied and stolen, then taking to the pirate's colony system. We just need NPCs hauling the correct goods to be found around the galaxy.

There are other gameplay loops that could work as well. Maybe even Odyssey content. Introducing different gameplay loops that advance colonization or the improvement of one's system keeps the game interesting, and prevents hauling burnout.
Click to expand...
"Alternate" actions which still need a commensurate effort would be fine... PP2 and the Thargoid War both proved these were good things.

But that's a far cry from "Pay NPCs to do it for us" like what was being suggested in the quoted post. It would be a substantial own-goal for FD to deliver a major update only to include a "pay to skip" option.
 
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