Elite Dangerous | System Colonisation Beta Details & Feedback

Question about Refineries & Economy:

I am a bit confused about refineries. Apparently the only refinery installation can be built on surface, as a refinery hub, and no refinery building in space.
How can my colony then can produce space refinery items, especially Insulating Membranes? Will my orbital outposts or ports produce it automatically if I build a refinery hub? Or should my space port be in the orbit of the planet/moon the refinery hub was built?

And in some systems, we can find orbit ports differ in economies; like in 1 system; there can be 1 agriculture, 1 refinery 1extraction space ports. How is the economy determined for the orbit and surface settlements? Is it dependent on the number of facilities that the planetary port orbiting the planet (or gas giant or asteroid belt) and its moons, or is it detemined randomy throughout the system?

The outposts in orbits is another question; except for extraction hub, the space outposts doesnt seem to be contributing to the facilities in the system as a prerequisite, they just increase values in a system. How can an orbital outpost affect an economy of a surface or orbital portal?
my theory looks like this
Ökonomiemodell.png


every body/singular Space-slot forms a micro-economy, are they grouped together they form a local eco, these grouped result in a regional economy and all together define the Systems economy - but thats a theory which still has to be proven (or negated) so far.
and depending on where you put a port thats whats defines your market. Market strenght would depend on the no of facilities supporting it....
 
Question about Refineries & Economy:

I am a bit confused about refineries. Apparently the only refinery installation can be built on surface, as a refinery hub, and no refinery building in space.
How can my colony then can produce space refinery items, especially Insulating Membranes? Will my orbital outposts or ports produce it automatically if I build a refinery hub? Or should my space port be in the orbit of the planet/moon the refinery hub was built?

And in some systems, we can find orbit ports differ in economies; like in 1 system; there can be 1 agriculture, 1 refinery 1extraction space ports. How is the economy determined for the orbit and surface settlements? Is it dependent on the number of facilities that the planetary port orbiting the planet (or gas giant or asteroid belt) and its moons, or is it detemined randomy throughout the system?

The outposts in orbits is another question; except for extraction hub, the space outposts doesnt seem to be contributing to the facilities in the system as a prerequisite, they just increase values in a system. How can an orbital outpost affect an economy of a surface or orbital portal?
The working theory on how you get a refinery is to have a colony- style outpost/ coriolis/ orbis in orbit of a body that has surface sites... you then put some refinery hubs down on the surface and it influences the orbiting facilty to get a refinery economy.

Edit: on outposts... it's important to note if what you're building has "facilty economy" or "system economy influence". Outposts just have a facility economy, so that's only on them. They may be influenced by hubs, but i need to test that more.
 
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The CEO of Brewer Corp needs to be fired. Shareholders are not happy that he released a bunch of new orbitals and ports without an instruction manual of where to put them and how they interact with each other. A lot of cmders are putting down orbital outposts as placeholders in systems (20k in mats) until they get some clarification on how the economy works and what to build where. Brewer sales of other orbitals and stations are starting to flat-line. Sirius Corp may be looking at a hostile takeover as the value of Brewer shares plunge. Why waste time and effort hauling goods just to build say a surface facility that doesn't produce what you want and then cant be deleted, permanently wasting that system slot? Rumors are also circulating that the Brewer engineers that designed the screens surrounding the orbital construction sites, thus effectively negating the auto pilot for construction deliveries, will also be let go.
 
You dont balance a game around players who play the game for 10+ years every day,and have 100bil+ credits.
Missions should spawn when construction in system starts.
You should be able to pay material cost and a transport fee to have npc ships deliver goods. They already dock at the construction site ingame.
Alternative is to have the build grow slowly on its own after a certain % is completed.

Even with a cutter and fleet carrier its a horrible boring grind. An average player who doesnt play for 10 years like people here (me included) will never do this.
 
1. place and build a pirate installation next to the first body in the system, which has one building slot. (In my case, the asteroid belt)

2. Try to place another facility (eg. Orbis) in the very first slot next to the primary star (As we know, it doesn't go there, it goes into orbit around the first body in the system)

3. Now the construction site for number 2 is 8km from number 1, in the same instance, so you're under constant pirate attack with every delivery. And no sys defence, no defensive turrets to help.

ETA: I assume if you keep trying to place facilities in the first slot in the system, they'll keep showing up in that same instance. So you could build yourself quite a city.
 
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You dont balance a game around players who play the game for 10+ years every day,and have 100bil+ credits.
Missions should spawn when construction in system starts.
You should be able to pay material cost and a transport fee to have npc ships deliver goods. They already dock at the construction site ingame.
Alternative is to have the build grow slowly on its own after a certain % is completed.

Even with a cutter and fleet carrier its a horrible boring grind. An average player who doesnt play for 10 years like people here (me included) will never do this.

You can build a small outpost in a couple of sessions.

Solo, you can build small, medium and large odyssey settlements and space-based installations over several days.

You only need 25m credits, and you make a profit delivering goods. Being rich has nothing to do with it.

What you can't do is build a Tier 3 station on your own if you're a casual player putting in a couple of hours every few nights. And nor should you be able to, or the people you're highlighting (rich players with lots of time) would have 100 such stations in a couple of weeks.
 
You dont balance a game around players who play the game for 10+ years every day,and have 100bil+ credits.
Missions should spawn when construction in system starts.
You should be able to pay material cost and a transport fee to have npc ships deliver goods. They already dock at the construction site ingame.
Alternative is to have the build grow slowly on its own after a certain % is completed.

Even with a cutter and fleet carrier its a horrible boring grind. An average player who doesnt play for 10 years like people here (me included) will never do this.
This is ridiculous even for someone who has been in the game for 10 years and have literally everything you can achieve in the game. I've been here since Gamma and this is literally one of the worst implementations FD has ever made, I'd put it right up there with Gnosis situation. But for some reason some people just love to suffer and think others should too.
 
What you can't do is build a Tier 3 station on your own if you're a casual player putting in a couple of hours every few nights. And nor should you be able to, or the people you're highlighting (rich players with lots of time) would have 100 such stations in a couple of weeks.
you should extend your wording into "What you can't do is build a Tier 3 station as primary Port on your own if you're a casual player", as after that you have all the time in the world.
So if I as a solo Player can build on Outpost (22 Kto Mats) in 10-14 hous gametime, I can build an Ocellus in 140 hours roughly - the question is do I want to go through that? Especially in the beginning. Later, if I have a fully developed System which also has the indrastructure to support the Ocellus Market properly, shure - why not. It colonization, not a rat-race.....
 
This is ridiculous even for someone who has been in the game for 10 years and have literally everything you can achieve in the game. I've been here since Gamma and this is literally one of the worst implementations FD has ever made, I'd put it right up there with Gnosis situation. But for some reason some people just love to suffer and think others should too.
Dude, if you don´t like it do something else. Nobody forces you to get involved into colonization. Same with me and mining - I hate it, so - no mining for me, thanks. Same for AXI, PP, PvP and some other stuff.

Only because the mechanics are not to your liking it doen´t mean that the game is botched, from my POV your mentality approach to it is.
 
You can build a small outpost in a couple of sessions.

Solo, you can build small, medium and large odyssey settlements and space-based installations over several days.

You only need 25m credits, and you make a profit delivering goods. Being rich has nothing to do with it.

What you can't do is build a Tier 3 station on your own if you're a casual player putting in a couple of hours every few nights. And nor should you be able to, or the people you're highlighting (rich players with lots of time) would have 100 such stations in a couple of weeks.
It's not about the amount of time spent, but about the ways of implementing the time spent. If it was 30/30/30/10 from each mechanic in the game, such as exploration, combat, trade, xenobiology, etc. to colonize the system, that is, they would REALLY WORK ON THE MECHANICS, the question of time would not arise at all, since there would be banal GAMEPLAY DIVERSITY. All we have now is an unimaginable amount of howling and nothing more. People offer and want to order resources not because they like to look at the timer in the table, but because THERE ARE NO ALTERNATIVES and knowing FD, they will not implement deep mechanics ever, so ordering resources is simply the simplest thing that can be done to give players an alternative and fit into their "minimum finished product" policy. As for "rich players with a bunch of stations", they will build them without money, large squadrons will have an advantage over small ones or solo players, regardless of the availability of credits, but simply because there are thousands of people. AXI is already in the Pleiades and they did not need credits for this. In extreme cases, we have 400 billion systems in the galaxy anyway. And why does everyone decide that if you implement an order goods for credits, then tomorrow a solo player will build Orbis in a minute? God, there are a million and one ways to balance this based on the number of credits needed, delivery time and other things that are already in the game code and only require UI implementation and common sense. sigh
 
Dude, if you don´t like it do something else. Nobody forces you to get involved into colonization. Same with me and mining - I hate it, so - no mining for me, thanks. Same for AXI, PP, PvP and some other stuff.

Only because the mechanics are not to your liking it doen´t mean that the game is botched, from my POV your mentality approach to it is.
I'll figure out where to go and what to do myself, thank you very much. I'm not going to justify bad game design. And i give feedback, in feedback thread, which FD loves to ask for and then not use. The approach "don't improve anything, don't think, don't take advantage of opportunities and drown out any criticism" is absolutely destructive and almost literally the reason why half the game is broken for years and FD almost went bankrupt until they remembered, they still have almost killed golden goose
 
It's not about the amount of time spent, but about the ways of implementing the time spent. If it was 30/30/30/10 from each mechanic in the game, such as exploration, combat, trade, xenobiology, etc. to colonize the system, that is, they would REALLY WORK ON THE MECHANICS, the question of time would not arise at all, since there would be banal GAMEPLAY DIVERSITY. All we have now is an unimaginable amount of howling and nothing more. People offer and want to order resources not because they like to look at the timer in the table, but because THERE ARE NO ALTERNATIVES and knowing FD, they will not implement deep mechanics ever, so ordering resources is simply the simplest thing that can be done to give players an alternative and fit into their "minimum finished product" policy. As for "rich players with a bunch of stations", they will build them without money, large squadrons will have an advantage over small ones or solo players, regardless of the availability of credits, but simply because there are thousands of people. AXI is already in the Pleiades and they did not need credits for this. In extreme cases, we have 400 billion systems in the galaxy anyway. And why does everyone decide that if you implement an order goods for credits, then tomorrow a solo player will build Orbis in a minute? God, there are a million and one ways to balance this based on the number of credits needed, delivery time and other things that are already in the game code and only require UI implementation and common sense. sigh

Wait until mid year when a large capacity hauler or a CG for some kind of retrofit bulk cargo racks seem to be pretty much inevitable.

Think back to almost every other feature added to the game: early adopters play anyway, casuals say it's too much work. Eventually requirements are lowered (e.g. Titan fighting) until anyone with a few million credits can have a go, not just people who crafted grelics, collected caustic crystals, unlocked guardian weapons, etc, etc.

The beta might be complete, but that doesn't mean colonisation is. They could add a dock where you connect your fleet carrier to unload it into an orbiting construction site (so you only have to load it - and you can pay others to do that). They could add a space elevator so you dock a carrier in orbit and the goods are carried down.
 
Yup, they were killed their golden goose until they thought "maybe people like building their ships, what if there wasn't horrible grindfests on it?"and thus the engineering rework was born, althought it could have been better, it was a great quick fix that let people enjoy building ships.
"What if PP wasn't a monotone grindfest" and so PP2 was made, it was great, thought mining is the "meta", rare goods could still be brought back and the whole system could be further balanced, but it still meant people could actually enjoy the new mechanics without burning themselves out doing the same activity for days on end, hell i can even cheekily sneak in power malware during settlement raids for spare merits.


Now, if fdev could get hit with these basic game design insights again...
It does seem more realistic for fdev to pull it together than for SC to actually deliver , but time will tell.
 
And why does everyone decide that if you implement an order goods for credits, then tomorrow a solo player will build Orbis in a minute?

What's wrong with a rich player building an Orbis in a minute? Will the galaxy become poorer? 400 billion systems. Just a reminder. So let him build at least 100 Orbis in a couple of hours. Nothing terrible will happen. If you have money, build as much as you want.
 
Wait until mid year when a large capacity hauler or a CG for some kind of retrofit bulk cargo racks seem to be pretty much inevitable.

Think back to almost every other feature added to the game: early adopters play anyway, casuals say it's too much work. Eventually requirements are lowered (e.g. Titan fighting) until anyone with a few million credits can have a go, not just people who crafted grelics, collected caustic crystals, unlocked guardian weapons, etc, etc.

The beta might be complete, but that doesn't mean colonisation is. They could add a dock where you connect your fleet carrier to unload it into an orbiting construction site (so you only have to load it - and you can pay others to do that). They could add a space elevator so you dock a carrier in orbit and the goods are carried down.
Oh yeah. The Thargoid War, where the titans spent a lot of time doing nothing, and the amount of grind to start a bombing run was so high that even experienced AX pilots would quit. That war where they changed numbers on the fly, destroying the efforts of entire squadrons, causing players to leave the game in droves. Yeah, I remember that, I was there the whole time.

Please, let's be honest: they rolled this out live for a lot of reasons, but one of them is that they just skimp on testing. Some bugs are so obvious and critical that anyone could have found them just by playing what they created. Which just goes to show that FD doesn't play their own game before releasing anything.

Of course, with so much negativity, they will sooner or later make some edits, changes, release another freighter ship for arxes by summer/fall, but ultimately they will forget about the mechanics, switching to something else, to another hypetrain, which will be boarded by content-starved players and forget about colonization as well as everything else, as they always did. (I really want to believe that they changed their policy, but I'm too realistic for that). By the time this is done, the colonization mechanics will hardly be that relevant. Why they couldn't do it well right away is a mystery. For a mechanic that they claim is "finished" - the inability to demolish a building and the lack of banal good-quality screenshots in the building preview - calling it a disgrace would be an insult to a disgrace.
 
What's wrong with a rich player building an Orbis in a minute? Will the galaxy become poorer? 400 billion systems. Just a reminder. So let him build at least 100 Orbis in a couple of hours. Nothing terrible will happen. If you have money, build as much as you want.
Let's also be able to pay to teleport to Beagle point or Colonia in a minute for a billion or 25000 Arx, destroy a Titan for 5 billion or 50000 Arx.
Let's be honest here you would really like a fully developed system but can't be bothered with building it yourself, that's the issue, it's a you problem.
 
Yup, they were killed their golden goose until they thought "maybe people like building their ships, what if there wasn't horrible grindfests on it?"and thus the engineering rework was born, althought it could have been better, it was a great quick fix that let people enjoy building ships.
"What if PP wasn't a monotone grindfest" and so PP2 was made, it was great, thought mining is the "meta", rare goods could still be brought back and the whole system could be further balanced, but it still meant people could actually enjoy the new mechanics without burning themselves out doing the same activity for days on end, hell i can even cheekily sneak in power malware during settlement raids for spare merits.


Now, if fdev could get hit with these basic game design insights again...
It does seem more realistic for fdev to pull it together than for SC to actually deliver , but time will tell.
In fact, it's a bit confusing. PP 2.0, from which essentially nothing was expected, turned out to be so much more complex mechanics and more progressive in terms of "less crazy, monotonous grind" than such an important thing as the entire system colonisation. ¯\(ツ)
 
Let's be honest here you would really like a fully developed system but can't be bothered with building it yourself, that's the issue, it's a you problem.

This is not how it works in reality. Elon Musk does not do the work of each of his employees at SpaceX. He pays hired workers. Engineers, cleaners, welders, turners, etc. He manages the company and does not do all the work himself. And the current implementation of colonization offers the "system architect" to do the work of a delivery man, instead of actually managing the development project of the system.
 
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