New ship: Gutamaya Corsair

[Dillon Fallon]

Took a cargo hauling build out last night and with hold full of palladium naturally a pirate turns up. Wasn't expecting them to be in an AspX though which feels like it might be a copy/paste error from the Courier.

Makes me feel more that stuff like the mass lock is an error because I'd be surprised if FDev have decided this should be an easy mode cargo hauler as well.

 

[Elpapo]

Took a cargo hauling build out last night and with hold full of palladium naturally a pirate turns up. Wasn't expecting them to be in an AspX though which feels like it might be a copy/paste error from the Courier.

Makes me feel more that stuff like the mass lock is an error because I'd be surprised if FDev have decided this should be an easy mode cargo hauler as well.

This.

When are you wanted, have any cargo, or active mission, the game will only "send" small ships to deal with Corsair, wich seems silly....


This ship should be chased by condas, FDL's or other medium combat ships.

"The target is in system, what we should send to intercept?"
"Send I-eagle... data shows its a courier"

Npcs be like.

I also noticed that npcs spawn "pool", when using Corsair are exacly same as with Courier.
Given both having same mass-lock factor, its more evident that Corsair is copy&paste Courier, but Fdevs didnt do enough of homework.
But atleast this means that there is chance that Corsair might be fixed in regard of what npcs spawns to it, and its Mass lock factor.

 

[MPL3D]

Corsair is already OP.
Better armour, shields, firepower, cargo capacity, distributor and power plant.
How many ships does it need to displace into oblivion?
Stop complaining and let the Clipper to stay in its speed niche.
Besides, the empire will never build an open access ship that can prey the rank required ones

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Corsair is already OP.
Better armour, shields, firepower, cargo capacity, distributor and power plant.
How many ships does it need to displace into oblivion?
Stop complaining and let the Clipper to stay in its speed niche.
Besides, the empire will never build an open access ship that can prey the rank required ones

Hopefully FDev see past some of that stuff to deal with things that seem to be an exploit. Effectively we can now spend money on an Arx purchase to dial down NPC pirates. The "pre-builds are P2W" crowd will be thrilled.

 

[SergMx]

Hopefully FDev see past some of that stuff to deal with things that seem to be an exploit. Effectively we can now spend money on an Arx purchase to dial down NPC pirates. The "pre-builds are P2W" crowd will be thrilled.

It's hard to find a ship in the game, even of the old ones, that can't handle NPC pirates.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

It's hard to find a ship in the game, even of the old ones, that can't handle NPC pirates.

So how does being able to pay to make them weaker help?

 

[sinkarma]

I want to see NPCs using the new ships.
Can I pay arx to allow nps pirates to spawn using corsairs and python mk2? But in other people's instances.

Pay 500 arx to spawn an npc corsair with double engineering mods on ALL its internals with phasing scramble spectrum mass lock fsd disruption feedback cascade pulse lasers.
Get 1000 arx back if they somehow succeeded in killing the npc ship.

Edit: fixed spelling, sorry am sitting on balcony enjoying fresh air and a bit of sunlight before I play any games today, glare and phone not good for typing

 

[Stealthie]

If you want to think of it from an in-universe point of view, it may well be that ship speed is not solely a function of ship mass and thruster size. The overall design of the ship, particularly the thruster nozzles and a bunch of other things, can have an effect.

Even in real life just because the engines of an airplane may have more horsepower doesn't necessarily mean it will fly faster than another completely different airplane model that has less horsepower.

Yep, for sure.

The main thing that people complain about is the arbitrary speed cap on ships and even that does have a real-world comparison.

An electric motor that's running at a given speed while under load can "run away" if the load is removed.
For example, if you've got an electric water pump that's running at 1000rpm when it's pumping water, if the water supply stops there's no load on the motor and it could speed up to 10,000rpm... which could damage the motor and ruin the pump.
There will (or, should) be a variety of safety features to prevent this happening, cutting power to the motor so it can never run faster than it's design-speed.

In my head-canon, there's probably something similar going on in ship thrusters in ED.

Maybe it's something as simple as the airframe of the Corsair is only rated for a certain amount of stress so there's software that limits the output of the thrusters to prevent damage to the airframe.
Maybe it's more complex than that. Maybe there's parts in the thrusters that can be damaged if too much thrust is created so, again, there's safety features that prevent the thruster creating so much thrust that it'll destroy itself.

My issue with the Corsair is more of an in-universe one, though.
The Corsair comes from the same company that built the Clipper.
They've built a shiny new ship that's lighter than the old ship, smaller than the new ship, nearly 4x the price of the old ship and can use bigger thrusters than the old ship... but it's slower than the old ship.
That doesn't really sound like something any company would do.

It's kind of like BMW selling a poverty-spec 5-series with a straight six engine that does 130mph and then releasing a luxury sports 4-series coupe that's slower than the 5-series with the same straight six engine or offering it with a V8 that's limited to the same 130mph top speed as the 5-series.
In the real-world, that would cause two things to happen.
1) People would be asking why the fancy, expensive, new, smaller, lighter, car isn't as fast as the cheap old car.
2) People would be bunging the V8 out of the new 4-series into the old 5-series to see just how fast it can go.

Unfortunately, #2 isn't possible in ED so that leaves us with #1.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting the Corsair is a terrible ship or anything.
Overall, despite being a teensy bit slower, it's almost certainly a better ship than the Clipper overall... and it can land on medium pads.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

My wild speculative opinion is that with two ships that have a closure rate of Mach 3.6, gamers have reaction time limits. Hence, the cap.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

The SR-71 official record is about 980 meters/second. Mach 3.3

The X-15 official record is about 2,019 meters/second. Mach 6.7

Let's try your canyon runs, and dogfights at those velocities...

 

[Brrokk]

My wild speculative opinion is that with two ships that have a closure rate of Mach 3.6, gamers have reaction time limits. Hence, the cap.

Yes, and not just the gamers. The software clients would never agree on whether a collision happened or not if there was any rubber-banding.

Edit: actually, what's the speed of sound in a vacuum?

 

[sinkarma]

cutter actually has a top speed of over 6000m/s

(a glitch happened whilst boosting towards a fleet carrier exiting hyperspace and the cutter impacted then began accellerating in the opposite direction, zero throttle... but speed was just increasing and increasing)

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Yes, and not just the gamers. The software clients would never agree on whether a collision happened or not if there was any rubber-banding.

Edit: actually, what's the speed of sound in a vacuum?

There is approximately one atom every cubic meter. I'll have to get back to you...

 

[Brrokk]

There is approximately one atom every cubic meter. I'll have to get back to you...

It must be almost infinite or almost zero, I can't figure it out.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Not sure about shards, but plasma charger its rather "difficult" weapon to understood, as not everything is obvious at first glance.
Now there is the catch... the AX part of dmg, its actually hidden from stats (in-game)...

I tested it myself with one of my friend a good while ago, the absolute "part" is correct, the dmg dealt to human ships, since c2 mod plasma when fully charged have exacly 78,2 dmg, as target (friendly cmdr) shields was exacly at 100 MJ, and they didnt had anything in SYS. Single hit, single c2 pre-engineered plasma charger, fired at 900m, left them with exacly 21% shields after eating single shot.

Now then, if the dmg would be split 50/50 (AX/absolute), given the listed stats, the dmg should be at 39,1... so my friend shields would be at like 60% or so, after single shot.




One thing that elite teached me long time ago... numbers on paper does not do justice, compared to what is in game. Also only numbers in game, are ones being correct.
There is many variables to consider, just than plain numbers.
For fully chargerd 6 plasmas, the dmg is at 469,2, not 423. This alone makes it obvious, that Edsy or other sites, seems does have wrong data about this weapon, the AX part of dmg is not right.

The AX "part" of dmg is about 45% greater than listed 4.6... wich seems true, Thargoids seems eat way more dmg from it than its listed in game.
Regardless, what AX dmg truly is, it does not change the fact, that for PVP, the dmg is (confirmed) 4.6.




For shield dmg, the amount of pip on target shields greatly influences the result incoming dmg, skilled cmdrs are more likely to keep that 4 pip at SYS when it really matters, thats why they sometimes feels "toughter" than numbers would suggest.

As for hull, its very unlikely to have all pellets hit the target (if not big ship and not point blank range) due of spread.


Shards have even less depth of penetraiton that chargers, and resists hits it really hard. High MJ or high Hull ships with good resists, are more likely to outtank any shard users, and outdps it with basically most of weapon combinations, hence its no one uses it outside of AX.


Mod Shards aint are good to use vs human ships for this and some few other reasons. Its possible to defend with it, but forget killing cmdrs with it, or PVE against non-AX.
Its being outclassed by majority of non-AX setups, if meant to use outside of AX.


Shards dont have charge up mechanics, and are extremely hot for usage, basically requires more than few heat sinks to be even be usable... for PVP, ships without boosters usually are ones to lose first. Anything smaller than big ship, its going to rather tricky to land all pellets for it. And since its thermal, resistances affects it and combined with 4 pips to SYS, while eating shards to shields, its not going to do anything significant in terms of dmg.. And heard about "funny hull" bulids? Those have like 80% + thermal resists on hull, so shards are next to useless against such.... (btw, if you see PVP cmdrs without shields in open - its very likely they have it)

On other hand, plasma chargers deals 100% absolute dmg, its one of most efficent ammo based weapon, are nowhere as hot (it can be used without heat sinks), can be pre-charged, and that allows to attack an targets without letting defences too thin... you can pre-charge your weapons, let the WEP refill, and you are free to allocate those pips from WEP elsewhere in distro. With practice, you can attack with "pre-charged" with 3-3-0 or 4-2-0 settings, wich if done correctly, ensure that attack can be done with "full guard". This gives it edge in fights against PA or frag users, where dmg is usually dealt when both ships passes each other at close range, and chargers cannot be avoided in close range to mid range.

HUGE KUDOS for sharing some much info and your experience!
I definitely need to add a plasma charger build to my fleet!
Happy to read they are actually good/better than expected at both AX and PvP on top of being fun and pretty to use ;-)

 

[Stealthie]

I've noticed a few people talking about heat issues with the Corsair.

Maybe worth mentioning that, even if you don't think you need them, bigger PPs and PDs handle heat better than smaller ones.
Given all the thruster-related oddness, the Corsair isn't a ship where you need to scrimp with the size of modules.
If you've got a C6 PP or PD in your Corsair and you're having heat issues, you'll probably improve things by fitting a bigger PP & PD.

Haven't actually tested this on the Corsair but, back when I was building my naughty KM2 (equipped with overcharged beams/MCs and PAs) I did quite a bit of tinkering with different PPs and PDs to verify that bigger modules definitely do cause heat to build up more slowly and dissipate more quickly.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

I've noticed a few people talking about heat issues with the Corsair.

Maybe worth mentioning that, even if you don't think you need them, bigger PPs and PDs handle heat better than smaller ones.
Given all the thruster-related oddness, the Corsair isn't a ship where you need to scrimp with the size of modules.
If you've got a C6 PP or PD in your Corsair and you're having heat issues, you'll probably improve things by fitting a bigger PP & PD.

Haven't actually tested this on the Corsair but, back when I was building my naughty KM2 (equipped with overcharged beams/MCs and PAs) I did quite a bit of tinkering with different PPs and PDs to verify that bigger modules definitely do cause heat to build up more slowly and dissipate more quickly.

Has EDSY been updated recently w.r.t. the THM section for the Corsair?
I clearly recall that my torpedos/Hounds build was MUCH hotter on Corsair vs Gunship.
I checked now and it is 12.1 (idle) / 18.5 (thrusted on), which is very good.

And nope, it is the rating (e.g.: A), not the size (e.g.: class 7) of a Power Plant that affects the heat dissipation, which is the same for a given rank, no matter what the size is...at least as per the numbers I see on EDSY.

 

[Elpapo]

Ah.. the heat mechanics... one of most poorly understood and mysterious mechanics that only few can truly say they get it

Size of powerplant, affects total amount of MJ wich ship can run.
More MW is used, more "resting" heat is (since MW usages = heat), but that is ultimately affected by none other than heat efficent stat - wich affects resting stats, well as speed of heat disspation. This is most important viable to consider, if heat is concern.

Heat from distro, only affects weapons. There is weapon heat penalty mechanic, wich is universal for all ships, wich is relative to total procentage of WEP capacitor.
Smaller sized PD's, due of less overall MW in WEP capacitor, reaches those penalty faster, so they "feel" hotter to use, due of said mechanic.

It works as follows:
When WEP distro is bellow 75%(7 bars and bellow), it starts adds "extra" heat to weapons, linearly. Caps out at 25% of WEP, and at that point, the heat gained, from firing an weapon, even if there is enough of WEP juice to fire said weapon, the heat from such is doubled to what is being listed on used weapon heat.

This is why firing some weapons, when WEP capacitor is not full, causes extra heat bulidup.


For Corsair, most of its heat issues comes from low heat capacity, but it does have better than average heat disspation. As for weapons heat, LE powerplant is best bet to tackle on heat.... it does make big diffrence.

When used on my Corsair, Armoured plant with monstered, wich has efficent stat at 0.35... ship was running quite hot, I could not fire my 5x rails(60 heat/salvo) more than twice, and not overheat. So I had about 120 units of heat to work with.

But when I used LE, grade 3, with efficent stat of 0.22... Now I can fire my 5x rails, 3 times, and heat disspation is notable faster. My ROF, went up almost double time.

Not only because I had more heat capacity to work with (about 30-40 heat units more), but also because it cools down faster, much faster.

 

[SergMx]

Ah.. the heat mechanics... one of most poorly understood and mysterious mechanics that only few can truly say they get it

Size of powerplant, affects total amount of MJ wich ship can run.
More MW is used, more "resting" heat is (since MW usages = heat), but that is ultimately affected by none other than heat efficent stat - wich affects resting stats, well as speed of heat disspation. This is most important viable to consider, if heat is concern.

Heat from distro, only affects weapons. There is weapon heat penalty mechanic, wich is universal for all ships, wich is relative to total procentage of WEP capacitor.
Smaller sized PD's, due of less overall MW in WEP capacitor, reaches those penalty faster, so they "feel" hotter to use, due of said mechanic.

It works as follows:
When WEP distro is bellow 75%(7 bars and bellow), it starts adds "extra" heat to weapons, linearly. Caps out at 25% of WEP, and at that point, the heat gained, from firing an weapon, even if there is enough of WEP juice to fire said weapon, the heat from such is doubled to what is being listed on used weapon heat.

This is why firing some weapons, when WEP capacitor is not full, causes extra heat bulidup.


For Corsair, most of its heat issues comes from low heat capacity, but it does have better than average heat disspation. As for weapons heat, LE powerplant is best bet to tackle on heat.... it does make big diffrence.

When used on my Corsair, Armoured plant with monstered, wich has efficent stat at 0.35... ship was running quite hot, I could not fire my 5x rails(60 heat/salvo) more than twice, and not overheat. So I had about 120 units of heat to work with.

But when I used LE, grade 3, with efficent stat of 0.22... Now I can fire my 5x rails, 3 times, and heat disspation is notable faster. My ROF, went up almost double time.

Not only because I had more heat capacity to work with (about 30-40 heat units more), but also because it cools down faster, much faster.

Why understand the game mechanics of the game? It's all done just the way game developer want it !
And this has nothing to do with real life and its laws.

 

[Elpapo]

Why understand the game mechanics of the game? It's all done just the way game developer want it !

Helps being better in PVP, I suppose.