DLC20 Discussion (maybe, but why not?)

[Lord of the Vegetables]

So if we get a Safari/Savanna pack, do you guys want it to include a monkey? And if so, which one?

If it’s a Safari theme I feel like the Colobus monkey could pass given how highly requested it seems to be.

Honestly I’d say an Asian or African primate that isn’t an ape, Baboon-like, or practically unseen in captivity is more needed right now than another South American primate now that we have the White-Faced Saki in addition to the Capuchin
(Mostly my personal opinion I suppose but would anyone else agree that area is sorely lacking?)

 

[Marvinb]

If it’s a Safari theme I feel like the Colobus monkey could pass given how highly requested it seems to be.

Honestly I’d say an Asian or African primate that isn’t an ape, Baboon-like, or practically unseen in captivity is more needed right now than another South American primate now that we have the White-Faced Saki in addition to the Capuchin
(Mostly my personal opinion I suppose but would anyone else agree that area is sorely lacking?)

I think NW and OW monkeys are about equal now. Both the recent saki and hamadryas were big boosts to them, but monkeys in general are still pretty lacking, especially compared how omnipresent and species rich they are at real zoos.

 

[NZFanatic]

Mostly my personal opinion I suppose but would anyone else agree that area is sorely lacking?

I wouldn't disagree that it's lacking, but I would disagree that it's more needed than a third NWM. New World monkeys are the most represented primate group in captivity after all and the game should reflect that. At the very least we need one more.

 

[SuzieSky]

If it’s a Safari theme I feel like the Colobus monkey could pass given how highly requested it seems to be.

Honestly I’d say an Asian or African primate that isn’t an ape, Baboon-like, or practically unseen in captivity is more needed right now than another South American primate now that we have the White-Faced Saki in addition to the Capuchin
(Mostly my personal opinion I suppose but would anyone else agree that area is sorely lacking?)

I'm a bit biased because the Golden Lion Tamarin is my favorite zoo animal, but looking at zoo presence and the OG grouped wishlist, I would say that a tamarin is the most vital monkey by far. I'm hoping they'll add ~3 at once, but one with mods for others would be way better than none.

Then, I still think a howler or spider monkey is critical to bring South American monkeys to a passable state.

With the lemurs, great apes, and baboons, Africa has several options for primates, but I agree there is a very noticeable absence of smaller African monkeys, which have been very prevalent in zoos I've attended. I think the popular guereza would be a great option for this, and I hope to see it in an African Safari or rainforest/jungle pack. Just behind the tamarin and howler/spider monkey, I think a guereza is the last critical primate pick to make the monkey lineup not obviously awful.

Beyond that, monkeys have a lot of important species remaining. Additional tamarins, the other of the howler/spider duo, squirrel monkeys, and even a tufted capuchin are all pretty important to build a basic lineup for monkey houses. Africa has plenty more to offer, including the De Brazza's guenon, Wolf's guenon, patas monkey, vervet/grivet monkey, Diana/Roloway monkey, Schmidt's red-tailed guenon, collared mangabey, and gelada. Europe is still missing its only monkey, the Barbary macaque. The golden snub-nosed monkey is very important to the large Chinese playerbase who isn't as vocal here. India is still lacking a monkey, and the grey langur and lion-tailed macaque are both strong choices. Even Southeast Asia has more cool primates, including the smiling crested macaque, Javan langur with its golden morph, and the beautiful red-shanked douc. Of all of those additional options, I would prioritize ~2-3 more from South America, ~2 more from Africa, the golden snub-nosed monkey for China, the Barbary macaque for Europe, and at least one for India, assuming we get past the first tamarin, howler/spider monkey, and guereza.

 

[Milurian]

They did say "later this year". Last time they said that was when they teased that Zookeepers was coming, so I think it only makes sense to just expect a similar timeline again.

I already see plenty of people look at a summer release but frankly I think the same argument applies as last year. They probably would have said "later this summer" instead of "later this year" if they meant the summer.

they did also say "make sure to sure to stayed tuned to our social for any updates" which they usually only say when news is expected soon.

I also see no reason that later this year could not mean in the "summer" slot because simply put there is no other way to refer to that time period without displaying bias its not next month, its not this season, next season might work but seasonal boundaries are not consistent globally and short of giving a month or quarter later this year is a good enough description without alienating and confusing an entire half of the world by saying it will come in the summer when its not the summer for them.

This year the argument has slightly changed because of the console release schedule. There has been a single case of console bundles not being 1 month after the last with most being within a few days off exact the only exception was when a bundle was supposed to release in November (which was already a very crowded month) instead of December. I see no reason they would substantially break this trend now when they will now have the entire team that is developing console to support pack development since they will be done porting packs. This combined with the impact leaving console players without pc parity for 6 months with no promise of every reaching it will undoubtably have on the console community.
Given this information I see 3 options as possible
1 they port Americas separately to dlc 20 at a normal time at which point it can be assumed that dlc20 will come in 6 months.
2 they port americas as a bundle in july or early august at the normal time.
3 they ignore console players completely tanking their relationship and also irritating pc players with the wait.

The is also the factor of JWE3 and the future CMS game which will both be ramping up toward the end of the year and if the CMS game truely is PZ2 it would make more sense to release the last dlc for PZ1 as soon as possible to give the market at least a year gap between the 2.

 

[Milurian]

Asiatic lion or Sumatran tiger would be good. Both would provide a new model for an old animal while also adding a subspecies/subpopulation with a much higher captive presence than any of the ones in the game.

sumatran tigers have about half the holdings of the siberian so its not much higher by any means but they are the second largest grouping of tigers at over 3 times the next lowest.

 

[aubreykitsune]

When is the bundle after Barnyard/Zookeepers due, if it were to be released on the normal timeline?

 

[Marvinb]

When is the bundle after Barnyard/Zookeepers due, if it were to be released on the normal timeline?

Should be mid-end july. The bundles always had 2 months between

 

[Mjmannella]

Should be mid-end july. The bundles always had 2 months between

The Oceania-Eurasia bundle was released in March, so the pattern should be that it drops in late May

 

[Marvinb]

The Oceania-Eurasia bundle was released in March, so the pattern should be that it drops in late May

Yeah barnyard zookeeper releases on may 14. And the next one should then be july

 

[Milurian]

I think NW and OW monkeys are about equal now. Both the recent saki and hamadryas were big boosts to them, but monkeys in general are still pretty lacking, especially compared how omnipresent and species rich they are at real zoos.

If we are looking at true proportions we should have a minimum of 30 primates which is just under double what we have. They make up 20% of the global holdings and 24% of the species.
Compare this to the 37 even toed ungulates we have which only make up 15% of the species 21% of the global holdings or carnivorans which we have 44 of at 31% of the holdings and 17% of the species. Both of these groups are about 20 species over represented.

when accounting for the importance of each factor primates rank a close second as the most important mammal group for zoos ranking first in species diversity and 3rd in total holdings.

 

[PlanetSoyJak]

Yeah barnyard zookeeper releases on may 14. And the next one should then be July

June release date for next Animal Pack?

 

[Milurian]

June release date for next Animal Pack?

late july at the absolute earliest

 

[Lord of the Vegetables]

I wouldn't disagree that it's lacking, but I would disagree that it's more needed than a third NWM. New World monkeys are the most represented primate group in captivity after all and the game should reflect that. At the very least we need one more

I wasn’t actually aware NW monkeys are more represented than OW ones! That does make me less opposed to getting another one instead of another OW monkey, but I feel that with how few spots we have left my personal preference remains with an old world Colobus or Langur. I hope by some miracle we can end the game with both another OW and another NW monkey, but I only expect to get one, if even that.

I think NW and OW monkeys are about equal now. Both the recent saki and hamadryas were big boosts to them, but monkeys in general are still pretty lacking, especially compared how omnipresent and species rich they are at real zoos.

Fully agree, this has been said many times before by others but it's unfortunate monkeys have missed out on nearly every DLC they could've featured in
Part of me wants to disagree on the take that they're equal right now, but that's probably because I see both the Capuchin and Saki as very usable compared to Africa and Asia's monkeys, which are either primarily ground-dwelling, and therefore not really the right kind of generic monkey (Mandrill, Hamadryas), or so uncommon it doesn't fit into any of the zoos I make (Proboscis). But setting aside my over-specific monkey nitpicks I'd say you're right about them being currently equal.

I'm a bit biased because the Golden Lion Tamarin is my favorite zoo animal, but looking at zoo presence and the OG grouped wishlist, I would say that a tamarin is the most vital monkey by far. I'm hoping they'll add ~3 at once, but one with mods for others would be way better than none.

Then, I still think a howler or spider monkey is critical to bring South American monkeys to a passable state.

With the lemurs, great apes, and baboons, Africa has several options for primates, but I agree there is a very noticeable absence of smaller African monkeys, which have been very prevalent in zoos I've attended. I think the popular guereza would be a great option for this, and I hope to see it in an African Safari or rainforest/jungle pack. Just behind the tamarin and howler/spider monkey, I think a guereza is the last critical primate pick to make the monkey lineup not obviously awful.

Beyond that, monkeys have a lot of important species remaining. Additional tamarins, the other of the howler/spider duo, squirrel monkeys, and even a tufted capuchin are all pretty important to build a basic lineup for monkey houses. Africa has plenty more to offer, including the De Brazza's guenon, Wolf's guenon, patas monkey, vervet/grivet monkey, Diana/Roloway monkey, Schmidt's red-tailed guenon, collared mangabey, and gelada. Europe is still missing its only monkey, the Barbary macaque. The golden snub-nosed monkey is very important to the large Chinese playerbase who isn't as vocal here. India is still lacking a monkey, and the grey langur and lion-tailed macaque are both strong choices. Even Southeast Asia has more cool primates, including the smiling crested macaque, Javan langur with its golden morph, and the beautiful red-shanked douc. Of all of those additional options, I would prioritize ~2-3 more from South America, ~2 more from Africa, the golden snub-nosed monkey for China, the Barbary macaque for Europe, and at least one for India, assuming we get past the first tamarin, howler/spider monkey, and guereza.

This has just made me realize even further the sheer number of primates the game is missing out on not all essential by any means, but a heck of a lot more essential than the Coyote or African Leopard (on that note it's a little sad we have more North American canines, all of which look relatively the same, than South American Monkeys)

 

[NZFanatic]

sumatran tigers have about half the holdings of the siberian so its not much higher by any means but they are the second largest grouping of tigers at over 3 times the next lowest.

Sumatrans are more widespread, though, and Siberian numbers tend not to account for hybrids.

Edit: To clarify, Siberian tigers tend to be kept in northern hemisphere zoos where the climate is more suitable. Sumatran holdings are...generally everywhere. As far as being represented goes, the Sumatran is better for a global reach.

That said I don't think we'll get the Sumatran tiger. Our anniversary animal will probably be something else entirely. Despite it being a freebie I think I'd still probably whine if it was the American black bear, though.

 

[Milurian]

Sumatrans are more widespread, though, and Siberian numbers tend not to account for hybrids.

Edit: To clarify, Siberian tigers tend to be kept in northern hemisphere zoos where the climate is more suitable. Sumatran holdings are...generally everywhere. As far as being represented goes, the Sumatran is better for a global reach.

That said I don't think we'll get the Sumatran tiger. Our anniversary animal will probably be something else entirely. Despite it being a freebie I think I'd still probably whine if it was the American black bear, though.

again not even true whilst I can't speak on hybrids siberian tiger holdings are spread across 5 out of 6 continents compared to 4 with more holdings than the suamtran in all northern hemisphere continents. Also the only southern hemisphere continents that the Sumatran tiger appears in is oceania and south east asia.
Siberian tigers are the only specified subspecies to appear in africa or south america even if they have few holdings and dont appear in oceania which has only the sumatran or unspecified tigers.

Edit: I think the source I am using for numbers separates hybrids anyways so this isnt including hybrids or mislabelled generics which are on every continent in higher numbers (lower in oceanica) than either siberian or sumatran

 

[aubreykitsune]

Our monkey rep could have been made a lot better for me with just a few swaps:

• In the Arid Pack, move the hamadryas baboon forward to replace the Somali wild ass - it's similar to the donkey that we ended up getting anyway.
• In the Zookeepers Pack, swap the Coquerel's sifaka and its custom animations for any of the higher effort NWMs: a woolly monkey, spider monkey, or howler. I've recently become partial to the red-faced spider monkey, but the black howler is absolutely the go-to for crowd appeal.
• Fill the empty slot left by the baboon with another moderate effort OWM: preferably a colobus and more specifically the mantled guereza.
• In the Americas Pack, swap the white-faced saki for a small, moderate effort NWM: a tamarin or squirrel monkey, my choice being the golden lion tamarin.

At that point the only monkey I'd have felt is needed needed would have been the lion-tailed macaque, with any others just being a "nice to have."

 

[PlanetJameson]

late july at the absolute earliest

It would be pretty cool if they were working on having DLC 20 be ready by July and release it as a bundle with Americas on console. That would maintain the every other month console release schedule and it means we’d all get DLC20 together. Fingers crossed!

 

[Milurian]

It would be pretty cool if they were working on having DLC 20 be ready by July and release it as a bundle with Americas got console. That would maintain the every other month console release schedule and it means we’d all get DLC20 together. Fingers crossed!

with the information we have this is my strongest guess a late july launch or first week of august with the teaser either in the june or july unlocked

 

[RightWhale]

For reasons related to what I have seen in the real world, man I wish we had owls in game. Some birds would make perfect exhibit animals, and owls are one of them. In captivity they don’t move much, and can benefit from being a “living statue” like other exhibit animals.

Guilty pleasure idea, but imagine if Frontier could change the “Walk through exhibit” and turn it into the “large exhibit”. Basically some species could remove the path in the middle, and you could turn it into a large box. Then you can put a bird into it and boom you got a bird cage. Even better because the current WTE has null walls, so these “large exhibits” can be placed anywhere.