Convenient way to get rid of notoriety?

[geoffrey.hdt]

Hi bad, bad boys commanders,

I do know that notoriety clears with time, at the rate of one point every two hour.
I do know that some would just let the game running over the night, while they are parked at a station.
But isn't there another way?

I went on an undermining session and decided to do that on foot for a change (it was fun!).
I know that I was supposed to recognize the Power agents and only take these down, but...well, I actually still don't know what they look like, and since everybody was firing at me... ;-)
Ended up my session with notoriety 7, which is a whooping 14 hours needed to clear it!

I tested now, committing station suicide (but not using the ship that I disembarked before committing the crimes on foot), and that did not clear out the notoriety.
Is the notoriety tied to the ship?
Or is there really no other way than to wait to clear it?

My biggest concern is that with notoriety, the slightest little fine cannot be paid, denying access to the station service...pretty much a no go during a CG, when somebody bumps into you at the mail slot, for instance.

 

[Vardaugas]

You could go on a mining session. Just warp out when the initial spawn contains security or pirates. Then you spend some alone time productively. Similar works with exploration/xenobiology.

 

[SlickPBW]

Go to Beagle Point II in a non-SCO ship.

And notoriety decays at the rate of 1 point per 2 hours.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

You could go on a mining session. Just warp out when the initial spawn contains security or pirates. Then you spend some alone time productively. Similar works with exploration/xenobiology.

Eh, eh...well, the current CG is just perfect for this since that is exactly what I have been doing.
If only my notoriety would grant me some respect from the pirates at the RES, though...

So, no other way than waiting for the paint to dry???

 

[ꝁestrel]

But isn't there another way?

There is no other way. When I rack up notoriety I just do an exploration trip to some place I haven't been to 5-10k Ly away.

With the current CG it's actually a good time to dip out and do some mining in the black. Stash the goods in your FC then sell at the CG station.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

There is no other way. [...]

Any valid reason for this horrible design?
I mean, I understand AGREE that one SHOUD get notoriety for killing other players unlawfully...but NPCs?

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

Any valid reason for this horrible design?
I mean, I understand that one gets notoriety for killing other players unlawfully...but NPCs?

Because it used to be for unprovoked killing only. You could kill clean ships as much as you liked without getting any notoriety as long as it was related to a mission. But then when Odyssey came out, whoever implemented the crime and punishment rules for on-foot gameplay apparently had no idea how the existing implementation worked and made their own guesses. And now we end up with notoriety just for doing what the game tells us.

 

[ꝁestrel]

Any valid reason for this horrible design?
I mean, I understand that one gets notoriety for killing other players unlawfully...but NPCs?

It's a good design and we need more of it.

The problem is that any time they introduce actual consequences to actions people lose their minds. That's why the majority of the game is so consequence free.

 

[aRJay]

Any valid reason for this horrible design?
I mean, I understand that one gets notoriety for killing other players unlawfully...but NPCs?

You misunderstand.
One gets notoriety for unlawfully killing anyone in the game NPC or player.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

You misunderstand.
One gets notoriety for unlawfully killing anyone in the game NPC or player.

I meant that I agree that one gets notoriety for killing players. But NPC, at one point per kill (space kill at least, not sure how many on foot kill gives a point) , is overkill and unecessary.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

It's a good design and we need more of it.
[...]

Let's agree to disagree about it being a good design for killing NPCs

 

[aRJay]

I meant that I agree that one gets notoriety for killing players. But NPC, at one point per kill (space kill at least, not sure how many on foot kill gives a point) , is overkill and unecessary.

Killing a character in the game illegally is just as wrong whatever is running that character.

Yes the crossover with on foot is at best confusing,

 

[Jinx Chrome]

I meant that I agree that one gets notoriety for killing players. But NPC, at one point per kill (space kill at least, not sure how many on foot kill gives a point) , is overkill and unecessary.

Why? Just because of NPCs? You should see it more from an in-game perspective: Unlawfully killing is a crime - why should it be discerned between a player and an NPC? Actions and consequences.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Why? Just because of NPCs? You should see it more from an in-game perspective: Unlawfully killing is a crime - why should it be discerned between a player and an NPC? Actions and consequences.

It's OK, let's agree to disagree.
Arguing about notoriety was not my goal when I created this thread.

I just wanted to know of the ways to get rid of notoriety, other than waiting.

 

[Jmanis]

It's a good design and we need more of it.

The problem is that any time they introduce actual consequences to actions people lose their minds. That's why the majority of the game is so consequence free.

They can't introduce consequences because of two reasons:

- the only people likely to suffer them are those who are accidental, rather than career criminals who, at the core of their gameplay, is avoiding consequences.

- there needs to be a commensurate reward if there is to be a substantial punishment, because right now things like, say, smuggling missions, are just outright worse than normal missions.

If it's just a punitive result then there's no point to crime in the game, other than to trip people like the OP up. So just remove it, make weapons not damage "innocent" NPCs, and have other players just be ghosts which become translucent on approach.

The best way to fix C&P would be to change notoriety as it currently stands, and instead make it superpower specific, and nothing to do with washing off crimes. Make single crimes easy to shake off... but tie criminal rewards to bounty value and other metrics, and also introduce mechanisms for criminals which only come from being wanted. In that way that a criminal doing it for profit and rewards just like anyone else doing lawful things, and so we have a system that can then be punished.

People accidentally getting on the wrong side of the law can go "mea culpa" and pay a small fee to clear things up, while people seeking profit from crime do so because it's worthwhile provided they remain at large.

And then people murderhoboing and just generally doing crime for no good reason aka "the wrong sorts of crime" will get a big punishment and not have it backed by the rewards.

Everyone wins.

 

[Jmanis]

Why? Just because of NPCs? You should see it more from an in-game perspective: Unlawfully killing is a crime - why should it be discerned between a player and an NPC? Actions and consequences.

^^ yeah, punishments shouldn't distinguish between npc and player.

For c&p to make any sense, it has to guide players wanting to do crime to the "right" sort of crime,, which allows them to wear but not completely avoid the consequences... meanwhile those wanting to commit the "wrong" sorts of crime have hopefully made a value judgement to is worth and their ability to sort themselves out afterwards, because the game won't necessarily reward them for it.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

They can't introduce consequences because of two reasons:

- the only people likely to suffer them are those who are accidental, rather than career criminals who, at the core of their gameplay, is avoiding consequences.

- there needs to be a commensurate reward if there is to be a substantial punishment, because right now things like, say, smuggling missions, are just outright worse than normal missions.

If it's just a punitive result then there's no point to crime in the game, other than to trip people like the OP up. So just remove it, make weapons not damage "innocent" NPCs, and have other players just be ghosts which become translucent on approach.

The best way to fix C&P would be to change notoriety as it currently stands, and instead make it superpower specific, and nothing to do with washing off crimes. Make single crimes easy to shake off... but tie criminal rewards to bounty value and other metrics, and also introduce mechanisms for criminals which only come from being wanted. In that way that a criminal doing it for profit and rewards just like anyone else doing lawful things, and so we have a system that can then be punished.

People accidentally getting on the wrong side of the law can go "mea culpa" and pay a small fee to clear things up, while people seeking profit from crime do so because it's worthwhile provided they remain at large.

And then people murderhoboing and just generally doing crime for no good reason aka "the wrong sorts of crime" will get a big punishment and not have it backed by the rewards.

Everyone wins.

I said I did not want to argue about notoriety in this thread...but I 100% agree with you

 

[ꝁestrel]

I said I did not want to argue about notoriety in this thread...but I 100% agree with you

You started the discussion by saying it's "horrible design". If you didn't want to argue anything then no response was necessary. Multiple people already told you that there's no other way to reduce notoriety.

 

[ꝁestrel]

the only people likely to suffer them are those who are accidental, rather than career criminals who, at the core of their gameplay, is avoiding consequences.

That, in and of itself, is gameplay and I find it fun.

When I do on-foot missions I specifically do things to avoid notoriety. The planning and preparation part is fun for me.

When I do get notoriety (by accident or otherwise) then the landscape of the game shifts for a period of time. Now I have to "lay low" by leaving the bubble or by playing more carefully when I'm in the bubble. That I also find fun.

there needs to be a commensurate reward if there is to be a substantial punishment, because right now things like, say, smuggling missions, are just outright worse than normal missions.

I agree. But the solution to that problem is increasing rewards, not removing consequences.

The best way to fix C&P would be to change notoriety as it currently stands, and instead make it superpower specific, and nothing to do with washing off crimes. Make single crimes easy to shake off... but tie criminal rewards to bounty value and other metrics, and also introduce mechanisms for criminals which only come from being wanted. In that way that a criminal doing it for profit and rewards just like anyone else doing lawful things, and so we have a system that can then be punished.

There is no "best way" to fix crime & punishment. Your ideas fall into the bucket of thousands of other ideas with thousands of their own flaws. If it was a simple problem to solve it'd have been solved by now.

People accidentally getting on the wrong side of the law can go "mea culpa" and pay a small fee to clear things up, while people seeking profit from crime do so because it's worthwhile provided they remain at large.

That system already exists. This player got notoriety level 7. You don't get that by shooting one NPC by accident.

And then people murderhoboing and just generally doing crime for no good reason aka "the wrong sorts of crime" will get a big punishment and not have it backed by the rewards.

PvP ganks are a separate issue. It can't be prevented through disincentives because the people who do it are doing it for the "fun" of ruining the game for other people. They like the feeling of power it gives them over other people. It doesn't matter how big the punishment is because they are unkillable. If a ganker is attacked by a competent PvPer then they'll just run away.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

You started the discussion by saying it's "horrible design". If you didn't want to argue anything then no response was necessary. Multiple people already told you that there's no other way to reduce notoriety.

I know, I'm chatty by nature.
My bad.