New ship: Panther Clipper

[Arioch]

There was a thargoid ship?!?!

Frontier First Encounters:

Elite / Frontier - Frontier: First Encounters - or: how I learned to stop worrying and shove the Mouse

Slipping into orbit of Polaris 4a revealed the mysterious “????” signal to be something called a Thargoid-Transporter: When I attempted communications I was given the option to dock - at which point the vessel/artefact “closed up” ...looking a bit more Thargoid-y, and after a bit of...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[CMDR RAY-ZOR'SHARP]

What size drive are you using when calculating the MkI’s cargo capacity?

None, I was making a statement of intent,

I did play FEII on an Atari STE, such a long time ago It's hard to recall, pretty sure cargo was not the go to use, I think I had 200 Shield generator's and a really big rear facing weapon of some sort, nothing could get even close to causing any worth while damage.

Today it is all about the cargo capacity, not even sure you could make a case for cargo capacity being over powered, all it will do is return some of out time, which let's be honest. is treated with contempt by FDev, always has been always will.

Still can't wait for the stat's reveal though, ED until I die, or it does.

07

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

There was a bug where when you first received the Thargoid ship you had a hold stuffed with 65,323t of Alien Artifacts and 70t of Military Fuel - after a reload it went down to a more sensible 170t of cargo space with a Military drive fitted

660ly jump range was not to be sniffed at though!

A bug? ..... in 1st Encounters? well i never!. I Dont belive you

iirc gametek never recovered from that disaster, and it was pre internet days as well so was reduced to waiting for computer mags to release updates on floppy disks. it was a total ....show and makes the spinning sidewinder or teleporting space stations in E positively trivial.

i could cheat and google but where is the fun in that, esp when my memory of 30 years ago has already been impressively wrong so far today!

but i believe the story went that under pressure to get the release out, the wrong build of the game was accidentally sent out to go gold and it was a much more broken version than the inhouse one which was meant to be the finished one.

Not sure i believe that however because if so a single update disk released on a computer mag at launch would have fixed it, where as again iirc it took multiple patches over quite a significant time to get the game close to what most would consider release quality.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

There was a thargoid ship?!?!

yes in Elite 3 (1st encounters). the game had a story running though out and indeed its covered in elite dangerous as well..... the end game the player had a choice to make peace with the Thargoids - which i did and they gave you a ship , or to infect them, which is now the Canon ending which E has gone with.

David Braben has always been a fan of easter eggs as well as injecting a bit of mystery and rumour into the elite games however...... in the 1st game i spend 100s of hrs looking for space dredgers rock hermits and generation ships. I guess it may have taken a while but that did eventually come true in later games as well.

but it wasnt all nonsence. Depending on the version of the game you had, there were unique things in the games. Elite 1 on the amiga for instance had 5 end game missions one of which you ended up with a unique ship in the game (The Constrictor) which if memory serves may have had a cloaking device.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Regarding the upcoming Panther mk2, I don’t care about:

How it looks
How it handles
How fast it is
If it can have a fighter bay
Cockpit aesthetics or visibility
Difficulty getting through the toaster rack
How many hard points it has or how they are placed
If it is SCO optimized; (I’m pretty sure it will be, based on the other new ships)


I only care about how much it can carry and how far it can jump when heavily loaded. IMO, these 2 things will make or break this ship.

I second that but it would also be cool if it had the optionals and hardpoints to pull off a full-combat build while also mining/hauling. We don't really have that in a ship now without sacrificing too much in one area or another.

 

[Doctor Dread]

Anyone here still play Elite II ?
Or III ?

One where you have a ship with a hull capacity, and you stack whatever weapons and engines you want, only if it fits into that hull capacity?

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

How much do u want it to carry? This ship will be only a bit longer than a Type-9 based on the WIP images. So maybe it's only 1000 tonnes / units.

Why do people think this stuff? I'm really curious.

First off this is a video game so the external size of a ship doesn't need to have ANYTHING to do with how much it can carry.
Secondly if you look at a Type-9 docked, it only takes up half the pad from front to back.

So how much should the Panther Clipper v2.0 carry? About 5k Tons would be good.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Anyone here still play Elite II ?
Or III ?

One where you have a ship with a hull capacity, and you stack whatever weapons and engines you want, only if it fits into that hull capacity?

I had a big stint in 1st encounters (started from scratch and iirc got back to around dangerous) as well as time in a heavily modified oolite before Elite Dangerous dropped however i just couldnt go back now. IF i did it would be oolite not Frontier or 1st encounters.
i am hoping for a big expansion in ED or maybe even an ED2 to spice things up again.

 

[metatheurgist]

Anyone here still play Elite II ?
Or III ?

One where you have a ship with a hull capacity, and you stack whatever weapons and engines you want, only if it fits into that hull capacity?

Yes, the one where it had 2100T cap to fill with gear and other stuff that people are now using to claim that the PMk2 must have at least 2100T cap in ED.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Why do people think this stuff? I'm really curious.

First off this is a video game so the external size of a ship doesn't need to have ANYTHING to do with how much it can carry.

i strongly disagree here.
personally i think Elite should go more on the hard scifi rather than space fantasy, therefore internal consistency is important....... Yes there are huge issues in Elite with that already (my cobra V is called the TARDIS for a reason) but that does not mean FD need the make the issue worse.

That being said, ........... there is sill plently of scope to increase the storage of the clipper even with that limitation in mind.

5000 tons tho? I am fairly confident to say that simply is not gonna happen. i will be stunned if it can haul more than 2000 and if i was gambling i would say it will be in the region of more than 1000 but less than 1500 for a trade specced panther clipper.

 

[Doctor Dread]

Yes, the one where it had 2100T cap to fill with gear and other stuff that people are now using to claim that the PMk2 must have at least 2100T cap in ED.

Back in the day I've discovered a bug which I shamelessly used: take any ship, (the smaller the better, effects will be fantastic), with let's say 10T for cargo.

• Take full 10T of Radioactive trash or how it was called, fly in front of the station, dump them there and return in.
• Now you have 20T of space.
• Take 20, dump, now you have 40...
• Rinse and repeat until you have 20K, whatever. Then in that small ship you can put the biggest gun, biggest powerplant for it etc. It will not effect the range, agility etc.

EDIT
This is a bug in game form 40 years ago. I forgot was it in E II or III.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

i strongly disagree here.
personally i think Elite should go more on the hard scifi rather than space fantasy, therefore internal consistency is important....... Yes there are huge issues in Elite with that already (my cobra V is called the TARDIS for a reason) but that does not mean FD need the make the issue worse.

That being said, ........... there is sill plently of scope to increase the storage of the clipper even with that limitation in mind.

I don't know how we do "hard scifi" without a frame of reference for what mankind will achieve over a thousand years into the future. In fact if we were to be described such a thing from a time traveler, it would VERY much sound like fantasy to us I would imagine. But I digress.

I disagree there are "huge issues" with a ship replacing a 100+ year old design being "better" than the old one. I honestly cannot understand that mentality, but I'm open to arguments.

The Cutter is the biggest hauler we have and it's 50% decorative wings with a slim cigar-shaped haul. So it seems pretty obvious to me a giant square flying brick can hold much more, yes??

5000 tons tho? I am fairly confident to say that simply is not gonna happen.

Then I'm quite confident I'm not buying it for ARX.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I disagree there are "huge issues" with a ship replacing a 100+ year old design being "better" than the old one. I honestly cannot understand that mentality, but I'm open to arguments.

The T9 (year 3300) / T10 (year 3303) and Imperial Cutter (year 3301) are all under 11 years old however (in game) - ie they launched as new ships post release! - in game the year is 3311.
Like i said I agree there is scope for the Panther Clipper to be able to carry significantly more than any other ship in the game as it is but you are suggesting a 7fold increase compared to a haulage build T9........... it isnt my call but i feel your ARX will be remaining unspent if that is your demand.

(which is fine for me, i will be buying in game with credits, i dont like ships which come with infinite free rebuys anyway)

but from a game balance point of view a 5000 ton panther clipper - which would be 20% the haulage capacity of a fleet carrier but unlike a fleet carrier able to dock in a station - how would that not totally make any other large pad trade vessel completely redundant?

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

but from a game balance point of view a 5000 ton panther clipper - which would be 20% the haulage capacity of a fleet carrier - how would that not totally make any other large pad trade vessel completely redundant?

Simple logic based on the timing of this release. FDEV launches a new feature, Colonization, that instantly makes every hauling vessel - including fleet carriers - woefully inadequate overnight.

It doesn't make any sense for them to release the Panther Clipper at this point in time, in this fashion, unless it necessarily instantly becomes the clear and obvious choice for hauling. It can't be just a little better to be a hit, it must be MUCH MUCH better.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Simple logic based on the timing of this release. FDEV launches a new feature, Colonization, that instantly makes every hauling vessel - including fleet carriers - woefully inadequate overnight.

It doesn't make any sense for them to release the Panther Clipper at this point in time, in this fashion, unless it necessarily instantly becomes the clear and obvious choice for hauling. It can't be just a little better to be a hit, it must be MUCH MUCH better.

All i can say is, I dont work for FD and have no say in it, and presumably neither do you.

however am happy to wait and see once the stats are released for it and am more than happy to admit i am wrong, if that ends up being the case. I personally wont like it however (not admitting i am wrong - i do that a lot! but if the power creep is as big as you suggest)

As i have said elsewhere, had the ship not been able to dock inside a station or on a fleet carrier, and had it of had to be loaded and unloaded like the Lynx (probably via the npcs which buzz around the construction areas) then i think there would have been a case for a large ship carrying multiple 1000s of tons which wouldnt break the game elsewhere but it seems that is not the route FD have chosen to go.

As it is in CGs players can completely decimate markets within a few hrs even with "only" 750ton T9s.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Hard SciFi is just something that mostly conforms to our current understanding of physics, where any specific SciFi bits are internally consistent.

Which we happily suspend when it comes to FTL travel, something we don't know is actually possible. I don't want a game where I die in real life before I can reach the nearest star, thank you much lol.

That’s not what he said. He implied that the Cobra MkV seems to have more module slots than would fit into its airframe.

As far as I know we have no idea what the actual dimensions for these slots are though. Right? So it seems impossible to calculate internal volume of a ship based on arbitrary "slots".

 

[Kamiyoda]

Hard SciFi is just something that mostly conforms to our current understanding of physics, where any specific SciFi bits are internally consistent.

Elite is neither.

Its on the same level of Sci-Fi as Mass Effect post ME1.

 

[Bob McBobblehead]

2000t would be great, 3000t would be fantastic, but I'll be happy with cargo capacity of 1500t or above.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

All i can say is, I dont work for FD and have no say in it, and presumably neither do you.

however am happy to wait and see once the stats are released for it and am more than happy to admit i am wrong, if that ends up being the case. I personally wont like it however (not admitting i am wrong - i do that a lot! but if the power creep is as big as you suggest)

I feel like "power creep" is just something people cite when they want to argue against anything that others might find fun. Being able to haul 5k tons would drastically increase my enjoyment of the game, while not impacting YOURS at all. So what would actually be the problem?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Which we happily suspend when it comes to FTL travel, something we don't know is actually possible. I don't want a game where I die in real life before I can reach the nearest star, thank you much lol.



As far as I know we have no idea what the actual dimensions for these slots are though. Right? So it seems impossible to calculate internal volume of a ship based on arbitrary "slots".

i think you need to google hard sci fi!. it isnt that everything has to be based around what we know now... so FTL is perfectly acceptable, but what "science" is made up for that particular story or game needs to be internally consistent.
Gravity was a big one and FD stuffed that one up in Oddy. There is no artificial gravity in the Elite universe.......... except now there is :/ .

also yes we know exactly the sizes of all the ships as well as the space stations etc and some scale models have been made with internals in them - because initially at least all these ships were meant to have actual visible and useable internal areas.

as for me impacting your fun..... like i said i am not FD so not my call.... but why stop at 5k then, why not 50,000 tons? my fun is based entirely around verisimilitude in ED , without it i would have left ED many years ago........ tho the more the game goes on the harder it is to keep the 4th wall intact.

Big of a segue now but The Expanse is an example of well done sci fi imo.