Yes, the one where it had 2100T cap to fill with gear and other stuff that people are now using to claim that the PMk2 must have at least 2100T cap in ED.
New ship: Panther Clipper
- Thread starter Rubbernuke
- Start date
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i strongly disagree here.
personally i think Elite should go more on the hard scifi rather than space fantasy, therefore internal consistency is important....... Yes there are huge issues in Elite with that already (my cobra V is called the TARDIS for a reason) but that does not mean FD need the make the issue worse.
That being said, ........... there is sill plently of scope to increase the storage of the clipper even with that limitation in mind.
5000 tons tho? I am fairly confident to say that simply is not gonna happen. i will be stunned if it can haul more than 2000 and if i was gambling i would say it will be in the region of more than 1000 but less than 1500 for a trade specced panther clipper.
Yes, the one where it had 2100T cap to fill with gear and other stuff that people are now using to claim that the PMk2 must have at least 2100T cap in ED.
Back in the day I've discovered a bug which I shamelessly used: take any ship, (the smaller the better, effects will be fantastic), with let's say 10T for cargo.
- Take full 10T of Radioactive trash or how it was called, fly in front of the station, dump them there and return in.
- Now you have 20T of space.
- Take 20, dump, now you have 40...
- Rinse and repeat until you have 20K, whatever. Then in that small ship you can put the biggest gun, biggest powerplant for it etc. It will not effect the range, agility etc.
This is a bug in game form 40 years ago. I forgot was it in E II or III.
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I don't know how we do "hard scifi" without a frame of reference for what mankind will achieve over a thousand years into the future. In fact if we were to be described such a thing from a time traveler, it would VERY much sound like fantasy to us I would imagine. But I digress.
I disagree there are "huge issues" with a ship replacing a 100+ year old design being "better" than the old one. I honestly cannot understand that mentality, but I'm open to arguments.
The Cutter is the biggest hauler we have and it's 50% decorative wings with a slim cigar-shaped haul. So it seems pretty obvious to me a giant square flying brick can hold much more, yes??
Then I'm quite confident I'm not buying it for ARX.
Hard SciFi is just something that mostly conforms to our current understanding of physics, where any specific SciFi bits are internally consistent.
That’s not what he said. He implied that the Cobra MkV seems to have more module slots than would fit into its airframe.
No-one is debating that. But it’s not actually the flying brick that the PC MkI was.
Good for you.
The T9 (year 3300) / T10 (year 3303) and Imperial Cutter (year 3301) are all under 11 years old however (in game) - ie they launched as new ships post release! - in game the year is 3311.
Like i said I agree there is scope for the Panther Clipper to be able to carry significantly more than any other ship in the game as it is but you are suggesting a 7fold increase compared to a haulage build T9........... it isnt my call but i feel your ARX will be remaining unspent if that is your demand.
(which is fine for me, i will be buying in game with credits, i dont like ships which come with infinite free rebuys anyway)
but from a game balance point of view a 5000 ton panther clipper - which would be 20% the haulage capacity of a fleet carrier but unlike a fleet carrier able to dock in a station - how would that not totally make any other large pad trade vessel completely redundant?
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Simple logic based on the timing of this release. FDEV launches a new feature, Colonization, that instantly makes every hauling vessel - including fleet carriers - woefully inadequate overnight.
It doesn't make any sense for them to release the Panther Clipper at this point in time, in this fashion, unless it necessarily instantly becomes the clear and obvious choice for hauling. It can't be just a little better to be a hit, it must be MUCH MUCH better.
All i can say is, I dont work for FD and have no say in it, and presumably neither do you.
however am happy to wait and see once the stats are released for it and am more than happy to admit i am wrong, if that ends up being the case. I personally wont like it however (not admitting i am wrong - i do that a lot!
but if the power creep is as big as you suggest)As i have said elsewhere, had the ship not been able to dock inside a station or on a fleet carrier, and had it of had to be loaded and unloaded like the Lynx (probably via the npcs which buzz around the construction areas) then i think there would have been a case for a large ship carrying multiple 1000s of tons which wouldnt break the game elsewhere but it seems that is not the route FD have chosen to go.
As it is in CGs players can completely decimate markets within a few hrs even with "only" 750ton T9s.
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Which we happily suspend when it comes to FTL travel, something we don't know is actually possible. I don't want a game where I die in real life before I can reach the nearest star, thank you much lol.
As far as I know we have no idea what the actual dimensions for these slots are though. Right? So it seems impossible to calculate internal volume of a ship based on arbitrary "slots".
2000t would be great, 3000t would be fantastic, but I'll be happy with cargo capacity of 1500t or above.
All i can say is, I dont work for FD and have no say in it, and presumably neither do you.
however am happy to wait and see once the stats are released for it and am more than happy to admit i am wrong, if that ends up being the case. I personally wont like it however (not admitting i am wrong - i do that a lot!
I feel like "power creep" is just something people cite when they want to argue against anything that others might find fun. Being able to haul 5k tons would drastically increase my enjoyment of the game, while not impacting YOURS at all. So what would actually be the problem?
i think you need to google hard sci fi!. it isnt that everything has to be based around what we know now... so FTL is perfectly acceptable, but what "science" is made up for that particular story or game needs to be internally consistent.
Gravity was a big one and FD stuffed that one up in Oddy. There is no artificial gravity in the Elite universe.......... except now there is :/ .
also yes we know exactly the sizes of all the ships as well as the space stations etc and some scale models have been made with internals in them - because initially at least all these ships were meant to have actual visible and useable internal areas.
as for me impacting your fun..... like i said i am not FD so not my call.... but why stop at 5k then, why not 50,000 tons? my fun is based entirely around verisimilitude in ED , without it i would have left ED many years ago........ tho the more the game goes on the harder it is to keep the 4th wall intact.
Big of a segue now but The Expanse is an example of well done sci fi imo.
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A) He didn’t actually say ED was hard SciFi did he now?
B) The FSD has internal consistency.
So why are you comparing the proposed design to the Cutter?
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By your own logic, how do we know cargo isn’t stored in those wings?
Never claimed it was.
I was just explaining what is meant when we call something Hard SciFi, as they seemed to struggle with the statement “personally i think Elite should go more on the hard scifi rather than space fantasy”
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Ooookaaay, but if I put a module that's class 1 sized in a class 8 slot for example, what happens to all that extra space it doesn't take up?
Also please link me where FDEV released official canon specifics on the volume of the optional internal slots. This is news to me.
I know what hard sci-fi is, no need to condescend. You missed my point and that's okay. You want Elite to be more "realistic", I already said why that's a tall order with it being placed so far into the future.
Koma I'm already discussing this with him in real time, as we speak. Is there a reason you feel the need to act in his stead and speak for him? I feel like it would spam the thread if I provided two replied to every point: Those he made, and that same one he made that you repeat back to me.A) He didn’t actually say ED was hard SciFi did he now?
B) The FSD has internal consistency.
So why are you comparing the proposed design to the Cutter?
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Never claimed it was.
Have you looked at them? There are big holes, ports, and cooling vents running through them like Swiss cheese....
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hey i am just replying in kind......
You replied to me, now I can’t reply to you?
So the Mk 2 should show that they learned from their mistake.
We also know that 1 tonne of water has a volume of 1 m3, all the cargo is stored in canisters that hold at least that volume, so we can estimate a min volume.
We could probably also measure the size of the canisters we see in game and calculate the size of a cargo rack. - It wouldn’t surprise me if someone hasn’t already tbf.