Impose A Limit To Tier 1 Outposts In Systems (Outpost Griefing)

[ZULU OSCAR OSCAR LIMA]

There are pluses and minuses with daisy chaining. Some of them are being built by groups so focused on what they're building that they are shooting pass systems that the rest of us can use. I found a region yesterday where one group just shot pass a few adjacent Earth-likes. That was nice of them.

Exactly, and the fact that they have those, and won't do anything with them, is exactly the issue I'm trying to point out.
I'm bothered more by the fact that they are not doing anything with them, when someone else is willing to put in the time and effort.

 

[PilotB]

I'm bothered more by the fact that they are not doing anything with them, when someone else is willing to put in the time and effort.

Are they? So far nobody has touched any of my build projects despite them being in various daisy chains. If people don't own it they don't care about putting any effort into it.

 

[aRJay]

There are pluses and minuses with daisy chaining. Some of them are being built by groups so focused on what they're building that they are shooting pass systems that the rest of us can use. I found a region yesterday where one group just shot pass a few adjacent Earth-likes. That was nice of them.

Exactly, and the fact that they have those, and won't do anything with them, is exactly the issue I'm trying to point out.
I'm bothered more by the fact that they are not doing anything with them, when someone else is willing to put in the time and effort.

In your rush to be outraged by chains you missed what was said.

They haven’t ignored the ELWs in a system they have built in a chain, their chain has gone past and ignored systems with ELW in them providing access for other people to colonise those systems thanks to the chain providing a start location in range.

 

[MPL3D]

The issue with doing this is, some Players have Billions... Serious Billions.

Take 1 million per light year away and they will not be able to claim that many systems.

Also, if players got billions, it took their effort, it is fair that players with more credits have more power after all.

 

[Doctor Dread]

Out in the black, you need a ship with a fuel scoop.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

The issue with doing this is, some Players have Billions... Serious Billions.
Thus, those Players would in theory be able to Claim all of the 'Good' Spots before anyone even knew to look there.
It would simply introduce a different Problem.
We're not looking to Replace one Problem with another.

No you're absolutely wrong and he's totally right. So it's a problem that new players can't instantly jump into a Corvette? No, of course not. That's just the way it is, everyone accepts that. He's not introducing a problem, you're looking for problems where they don't exist.

Also everyone knows credits in today's ED isn't much of an issue.

The Bubble should be 25 LY, in my opinion, but NOT Infinite.

Can you explain why? I mean some thought-process instead of an edict would be nice. I explained why I think we should remove the limit. Can you explain why 25 LY, but not infinite, makes more sense or solves any real problem the OP brought up?

but more Resources too.

Here is where the train derailed into downtown Crazyville lol. Like umm, no, just no. Like I explained, it's ALREADY harder to build things the further out one goes due to simply supply chain logistics. Now here you are introducing a very real and totally unnecessary problem of ALSO increasing resource costs on top of that. Why??

 

[Jmanis]

Good god... "outpost griefing?

We've really done it hey?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Exactly, and the fact that they have those, and won't do anything with them, is exactly the issue I'm trying to point out.
I'm bothered more by the fact that they are not doing anything with them, when someone else is willing to put in the time and effort.

What bothers you is irrelevant. That doesn't give you the right to call people "griefers and toxic" for settling systems in a manner you don't like.

What's worst is when people give really good suggestions that would solve the very problem you're explaining largely, you shoot them down without even an explanation.

 

[Greasetrap42]

I would remove the distance limit and make the claim cost to increase with the distance.

I don't think this makes ingame sense. It is intuitively backward.

Usually claiming property in developed urban areas costs more and remote locations cost significantly less. Governments usually encourage colonial expansion and population growth in remote areas... not discourage it. Why would an underdeveloped property far far away cost more to claim?


Possible reason:
Security and administrative costs might increase with distance. But this should result in an increase in annual taxes to cover ongoing governing costs, not the initial property claim cost. Also, the cmdr is the System Architect, not the owner. Why would additional governing costs be charged to the Architect?

Edit: Of course the 15Ly distance limit doesn't make any ingame sense either. Or the distance limits in PP2.0

 

[PilotB]

They don't need a distance limit on the claim when they have a time limit for you to jump to the system and make the claim. It's 24 hours so they're likely planning to let us go pretty far once they remove the beta restrictions otherwise there's very little reason to allow a whole 24 hours for someone to jump 15ly and fly 6ls.

They should have just surrounded the bubble with a sphere of invalid systems to hold the beta in. They didn't so you get bridges because nobody knows when or if they beta will ever end.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Why would an underdeveloped property far far away cost more to claim?

Because it's far away from other players??? OHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

 

[Greasetrap42]

It is too bad Frontier didn't have the forsight to introduce an ingame distance limiting concept. Something that makes ingame sense. Then player's would have a logical explanation for distance limitations.

For example:
If galactic comms only work for 15Ly. So stns must be close together for services like Universal Cartographers, Vista Genomics, recieving missions, etc. Cmdrs can travel beyond that range (or build a colony) but there are a bunch of negatives. This would be good for explaining PP2.0 limits... administrative problems that the factions are unwilling to deal with.

Maybe better examples could be thought of, that was just from the top of my head.

 

[ZULU OSCAR OSCAR LIMA]

Are they? So far nobody has touched any of my build projects despite them being in various daisy chains. If people don't own it they don't care about putting any effort into it.

Post your Build Site Location here, and I'm sure someone will check it out.
In time, I'm likely to run into it, if I know where to find it, I can drop a Bookmark, and get to assisting you when I'm done here.

What bothers you is irrelevant. That doesn't give you the right to call people "griefers and toxic" for settling systems in a manner you don't like.

What's worst is when people give really good suggestions that would solve the very problem you're explaining largely, you shoot them down without even an explanation.

Setting a System up in a Bad way is one thing, letting it go completely to waste, is quite another.

They don't need a distance limit on the claim when they have a time limit for you to jump to the system and make the claim. It's 24 hours so they're likely planning to let us go pretty far once they remove the beta restrictions otherwise there's very little reason to allow a whole 24 hours for someone to jump 15ly and fly 6ls.

They should have just surrounded the bubble with a sphere of invalid systems to hold the beta in. They didn't so you get bridges because nobody knows when or if they beta will ever end.

It's set to 24 Hours, because that is what the Minimum Timer on every other Mission in the Game is.
With exception to specific Time Sensitive Missions (Maybe, yet to see one under 24 Hours).

 

[ZULU OSCAR OSCAR LIMA]

It is too bad Frontier didn't have the forsight to introduce an ingame distance limiting concept. Something that makes ingame sense. Then player's would have a logical explanation for distance limitations.

For example:
If galactic comms only work for 15Ly. So stns must be close together for services like Universal Cartographers, Vista Genomics, recieving missions, etc. Cmdrs can travel beyond that range (or build a colony) but there are a bunch of negatives. This would be good for explaining PP2.0 limits... administrative problems that the factions are unwilling to deal with.

Maybe better examples could be thought of, that was just from the top of my head.

Just about every Long-Range Mega-Ship in the Game has roughly 500 LY Range.
We can assume they want to be Economical about it, but that still only accounts for around 25-50 LY.
Though, I do see you point, an explanation would certainly help.

 

[alexzk]

No, not exactly.

Something else that you are all conveniently ignoring is the fact that is then starts forcing ALL Systems to be Independent and usually Unstable Systems.
It prevents me, and many other Players who actually give a damn, from Building the Systems we actually want.
If I want a Federation OR Imperial System, I have to hope that I can find a complete Route for me to Build what I actually want.
If there are too many Independent Systems in the way, it prevents me from seeing through my intended plans.

I could hope that the Developers make it possible for Players to select Federation / Imperial Ambassadors to be in a System.
I could hope that they make it possible for Players who have Architect Status to override what a System's Political Faction is.
For example, I want only Federation and Imperial Stations, if I could find/make somewhere with both in one System, that would be great.

Well, if you're in guild which owns federal PMF, it will "magically" appear when you finish construction anywhere.
Now ...I'm not sure if system itself will be federal because of that. At least you can have feds faction there.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Setting a System up in a Bad way is one thing, letting it go completely to waste, is quite another.

So hey man check this baby out!

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Just a big fat juicy system and - oh yeah - I've decided to leave it like this I think, sorry. It's just TOO nice of a system to junk it up with man-made crap.

 

[Feuerklaue]

To be honest, I think the simplest solution would to still allow CMDRs to abandon claims; even after building a station.

Anyone can then take over, timegate free since the work was already done. Just switching hands.
Maybe with like, a cooldown of claiming until after server maintenance would prevent system holding.

An optional choice experience is the best solution I think; plus I know that some CMDRs would do so if they just wanted particular systems.
Plus it lets those who want to keep such chained systems to do so without fear of it being seized.

 

[MPL3D]

I don't think this makes ingame sense. It is intuitively backward.

The in-game explanation for price increase with distance when doing claims (and remove the claim distance limit) is that the further away, the more resources must be spent to colonize a system.
This is not an urban zone, it is the space, and moving a colonization ship, and all needed resources, light years away and maintain it in deep space is not for free.
When you launch a rocket, the further it goes the expensier it becames, not the opposite.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

To be honest, I think the simplest solution would to still allow CMDRs to abandon claims; even after building a station.

Unless you're refunded your 25million and get all the materials back that you put into a system, why would someone abandon a colonized system? There's no drawbacks to owning them.

 

[Feuerklaue]

Unless you're refunded your 25million and get all the materials back that you put into a system, why would someone abandon a colonized system? There's no drawbacks to owning them.

For some construction jobs; you pretty much get a return on investment anyways and then some. It's more of an upfront cost.

Some people would prefer to focus on building up rich systems, so smaller systems wouldn't really be a forethought.
But I suppose a transfer fee to the CMDR wouldn't be the worst idea either.
Even 1mil creds would still be more than the system would make in a year on each server round.