Constructing a specific Economy

[Ian Doncaster]

I'm rapidly trying to work out a good answer; I'd love them all, honestly, with all the data inbetween. But that's not feasible (or kind!). @Ian Doncaster Do you have a view on this potential control environment? You may need to look at Tifu's previous comments.

If you're wanting to test the effects of gradually putting "contaminants" into an industrial economy, then setting up a weak link is probably a good way to start on it.

A "small" or "medium" military settlement built elsewhere gives +security (which doesn't appear to directly affect economies) and nothing else, so we should then get a 0.05 military influence and no other changes, which would then allow a fair comparison of how much industrial production it consumes.

EDIT: I would expect a 0.05 military influence to probably not switch off any exports outright, so it would be important to get a full list of export amounts from the station before and after the weak link was enabled.

 

[Tifu]

The primary commercial outpost has 140% industrial. Planet 5's stats are:

Source: https://www.edsm.net/en/system/bodies/id/9940292/name/Col+285+Sector+FO-E+b26-4

@Wartface @Ian Doncaster

 

[Tifu]

Commodities:

@Wartface @Ian Doncaster

 

[JacHammer]

I want to add that Scientific Outpost may give intrinsic 1.00 value to its High Tech economy, as I observed that:
in a system with 2 high tech weak links, a scientific outpost, orbiting an no-organic, no-volcano icy body with L size research settlement, has 1.90 high tech economy value.
So the math will be:
1.00 (scientific outpost) + 0.80 (L size research settlement) + 2 * 0.05 (2 high tech weak links) = 1.90

 

[ArcherS]

Thank you for the research and write up! Just to make sure I understand: a Rocky body without Geological or Biological features in a system with Pristine rings starts off at Refinery of 1.4, Industrial of 0.4, and Extraction of 0.4? Just making sure the Industrial and Extraction boosts of 0.4 are added, even though the base body just gives Refinery.

Edit: another question: what's the difference between volcanism and geologicals? I see fields for volcanism in Spansh and Inara, but nothing for Geologicals...

 

[Imurguy]

Thanks for sharing this.

I used this formula and something isn't adding up.

The body is a HMC world with Volcanism. The system has pristine resources ( 5 icy pristine rings, 1 rocky pristine ring). No other system boosts. Within the game is says there are 3 "geologicals" on this body but Inara doesn't appear to capture that. Screencaps from Inara

On the body itself is 2 refineries and an Industrial Port.

Using the formula I should have an economy of:

Refinery 2.05 (+0.4 from system with pristine resources, +1.6 from 2X refineries, +0.05 from weak link refinery on different body)
Industrial 1.6 (+0.4 from system with pristine resources, +0.8 from strong link Industrial Port, +0.4 from geologicals)
Extraction 1.45 (+1 from the body, +0.4 from system with pristine resources, +.05 from weak link in system)

Ag/Military/HighTech 0.05 (weak links within the system)

However, the actual economy is:

Refinery 2.05
Industrial 0.95 (short by 0.75)
Extraction 0.05 (short by 1.40) - FIXED

Ag/Military/HT is still at 0.05 from weak links.

It appears I do not get the system boost for having Pristine Resources without having an Extraction settlement/orbital on the body itself.

It also appears I am not getting the extraction boost as I have no "colony" builds placed at this time.

I don't know why I'm not getting the full system boost for Industrial even though there is an Industrial Port on the planet surface.

 

[ArcherS]

@Imurguy : I suspect the issue with the Industrial value is that the Industrial Plantary Port doesn't export any economy. (At least, that's how I'm interpretting the two Economy columns in DaftMav's spreadsheet. The "facility economy" for that type of port is "Industrial". The "economy influence" field is blank. A "surface - hub - industrial" facility has no facility economy, but its economy influence is Industrial.) Ah, sorry, I thought the numbers were for a port in space.

Also, did you type in the correct value for the actual extraction economy? The difference between your estimate and the actual value is currently 1.4, not 0.4.

 

[Imurguy]

You're correct; It's short by 1.4 for the Extraction not 0.4. However, it's still strange I'm not getting the System boost of 0.4 for having pristine rings for Industrial but it does appear I'm receiving it for Refinery.

I haven't placed an Orbital yet; all of this is as the Industrial Port on the surface - Maybe because it's Industrial it doesn't also benefit from the System boost?

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

Only colony type stations get planetary economic influence. You built an industrial port.

 

[ArcherS]

Maybe

Only colony type stations get planetary economic influence. You built an industrial port.

Then why is it getting influence from the Refineries? Oh, I think I understand now: the port gets the strong links from the refineries, but it doesn't get any influence from being located on a HMC body?

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

Maybe

Then why is it getting influence from the Refineries? Oh, I think I understand now: the port gets the strong links from the refineries, but it doesn't get any influence from being located on a HMC body?

Exactly. The industrial economy that it has is internal rather than from an external source.

 

[ArcherS]

Huh ... That reduces the utility of an asteroid base, since you can't get the planetary benefit of placing it above a HMC or Metal Rich body ..

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Edit: another question: what's the difference between volcanism and geologicals? I see fields for volcanism in Spansh and Inara, but nothing for Geologicals...

Volcanism is the state of a planet having volcanic activity.

Geological signals are the visitable surface features (on landable planets only) resulting from volcanism.

So a non-landable planet might have volcanism but can't have geological signals.

Huh ... That reduces the utility of an asteroid base, since you can't get the planetary benefit of placing it above a HMC or Metal Rich body ..

More often it increases it though, since gas giants are the most common place for rings and give HT/Industrial, neither of which is particularly helpful to add to an Extraction economy.

 

[Wartface]

Thank you for the research and write up! Just to make sure I understand: a Rocky body without Geological or Biological features in a system with Pristine rings starts off at Refinery of 1.4, Industrial of 0.4, and Extraction of 0.4? Just making sure the Industrial and Extraction boosts of 0.4 are added, even though the base body just gives Refinery.

Edit: another question: what's the difference between volcanism and geologicals? I see fields for volcanism in Spansh and Inara, but nothing for Geologicals...

A colony port above a Rocky body without Geologicals or Biologicals in a system with Pristine Rings will be only Refinery 1.4. Both Industrial and Extraction will be 0.0, the calcs for boosting need to boost something; hence the "For each Economy that has a value greater than zero at this stage".

Volcanism = kinda like Volcanoes (though small)
Geologicals = Special Rock from Volcanoes (at least, that's what I think of them as!)

Volcanism and Tidally Locked are available from the Description section when in the System Map
Geologicals and Organics (Biologicals) are shown on the Planetary Description section when in the System Map for the system you're in, if it has any:

Inara (and others) do not currently record Geologicals or Organics as far as i'm aware.

 

[tomalus]

still have to test colony hub for +agriculture
Pre requisite is an agriculture building.

The quest for beer and wine continues

 

[PilotB]

The quest for beer and wine continues

It's produced by the contraband economy so you can take the easy route and build a criminal outpost as a secondary station and it'll sell, beer, wine and liquor. Secondary means it gets no links and thus nothing drinks the beer before you can buy it if you're lucky the primary will also have a surplus but my colonists seem thirsty so that's harder.

 

[ArcherS]

A colony port above a Rocky body without Geologicals or Biologicals in a system with Pristine Rings will be only Refinery 1.4. Both Industrial and Extraction will be 0.0, the calcs for boosting need to boost something; hence the "For each Economy that has a value greater than zero at this stage".

Volcanism = kinda like Volcanoes (though small)
Geologicals = Special Rock from Volcanoes (at least, that's what I think of them as!)

Volcanism and Tidally Locked are available from the Description section when in the System Map
Geologicals and Organics (Biologicals) are shown on the Planetary Description section when in the System Map for the system you're in, if it has any:
View attachment 428845

Inara (and others) do not currently record Geologicals or Organics as far as i'm aware.

Except the "Extras from system features" section is before the "For each economy that has value greater than 0" section.

edit: ah, I just looked at FDev's patch notes and I do see the pristine bonus is in the Bonuses section.

 

[ArcherS]

[Asteroid Port not useful on ringed HMC] More often it [the asteroid port] increases it [the extraction economy] though, since gas giants are the most common place for rings and give HT/Industrial, neither of which is particularly helpful to add to an Extraction economy.

Yeah, I just added Geological signals to my accounting. This HMC with geo, vulcanism, and rings starts at Extraction economy +3.8 if I put a colony port above it. As much as I want to have an asteroid port in my system, it just doesn't seem to make sense.

Edit: oh, wait... if I put the Asteroid base over the HMC and put a bunch of refineries on that HMC, the base's Extraction economy (of only 1 instead of 3.8) will be superseded by the refinery. I have three HMC planets with geo, rings, and vulcanism, and all three have 6 ground slots and at least one orbital slot. Since these bodies would give an extraction economy of 3.8 (and Industry of 1.4) to a Colony base, it didn't seem like I could do anything with these three planets other than Extraction.

 

[Liriel]

EDIT: having a HT and a Refinery market in the same system but different stations is not in itself harmful (or all else equal beneficial) to either's exports - but if any weak links from either the markets themselves or the things creating them get across to the other one, that will be harmful as it's then a mixed economy on the same market.

But... if, as Fdev say, weak links are "created between ports and supporting facilities located on different bodies within the same system" how can the markets be separated? (I feel like I'm missing something obvious here, but the infographic shows weak links between everything except facilities and lower-tier ports.)

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

I have three HMC planets with geo, rings, and vulcanism, and all three have 6 ground slots and at least one orbital slot. Since these bodies would give an extraction economy of 3.8 (and Industry of 1.4) to a Colony base, it didn't seem like I could do anything with these three planets other than Extraction.

Not with stations that start out with colony economy, no. But you can build industrial or high-tech outposts/ports which won't be affected by the planetary influence.