Analyzing required animals by Taxonomical group

None of those games are competition for PZ. Plenty of zoos have an aquariums and an aquarium only style planet game would flop so hard Frontier would go off the face of the Earth.

Every major zoo game has had a marine expansion, and the casual market go nuts for it. I’ll go nuts for it, and Frontier will go nuts over the money it’ll make them. It’s for sure going to be in a sequel game it doesn’t take a lot of nuts to understand why it’ll be a good idea. I’m going nuts talking about it over here. 🐿️
As I have already pointed out marine expansion focus on non fish marine animals and it works because that is what is common in zoos saltwater fish are essentially non existent in zoos without separate aquariums and freshwater fish outside of koi are rare.
Another factor is that aquariums need so many more species than we would actually get imagine an aquarium with only 10 species of fish keep in mind over 6 years of planet zoo we barely broke 200 imagine trying to split that among birds and fish as well. While birds face this issue as well a small aviary in the middle of the zoo isnt as out of place as a small aquarium with barely enough fish diversity to fill a tank.

This may be a hot take while I would want a planet style aquarium game I do not want frontier to be the one to do it because fundamentally aquariums require so much more detail in the management systems and care requirements that what frontier is seemingly willing to do. I a free form aquarium builder would only be a success if there is complexity within the management which I doubt frontier could pull off.
Aquariums cannot be a sideline feature and still feel good. With tanks often having dozens of species in them frontiers model of drip feeding species at a rate of less than 20 a year will just not work for proper aquariums and it will either harm the actual zoo part of the base game or make aquariums very underwhelming to build for. Not to mention they would require completely different prop sets and care systems.

That being said I want aquatics in the sequel just not fish.
 
As I have already pointed out marine expansion focus on non fish marine animals and it works because that is what is common in zoos saltwater fish are essentially non existent in zoos without separate aquariums and freshwater fish outside of koi are rare.
Another factor is that aquariums need so many more species than we would actually get imagine an aquarium with only 10 species of fish keep in mind over 6 years of planet zoo we barely broke 200 imagine trying to split that among birds and fish as well. While birds face this issue as well a small aviary in the middle of the zoo isnt as out of place as a small aquarium with barely enough fish diversity to fill a tank.

This may be a hot take while I would want a planet style aquarium game I do not want frontier to be the one to do it because fundamentally aquariums require so much more detail in the management systems and care requirements that what frontier is seemingly willing to do. I a free form aquarium builder would only be a success if there is complexity within the management which I doubt frontier could pull off.
Aquariums cannot be a sideline feature and still feel good. With tanks often having dozens of species in them frontiers model of drip feeding species at a rate of less than 20 a year will just not work for proper aquariums and it will either harm the actual zoo part of the base game or make aquariums very underwhelming to build for. Not to mention they would require completely different prop sets and care systems.

That being said I want aquatics in the sequel just not fish.
Small fish can work like exhibit animals. I think when most people mention aquatics they’re taking about megafauna like the zoo tycoon games
 
I'm going to use the hype that would come to the forums in the coming day to get a grasp on a group we avoided when creating this post - Flying Birds.

In the next few weeks, I will start discussions about the bird orders and groups we avoided for PZ1, as recent developments for JWE3 aviary features and heightened discussion about Planet Zoo 2, makes this discussion relevant again.

So let's start: Birds discussion #1 - groups to discuss:
  • Parrots
  • Hornbills and hoopoes
  • Nightbirds (hummingbirds, nightjars, potoo, frogmouths, oil birds and relatives)
  • Hoatzin

In each discussion I will put the focus on one big groups and some smaller niche groups or individual species. Results will be aggregated in the main post.
Thanks for all participants! I will now aggregate the results. Now we'll move to Birds discussion #2 - Waterbirds - groups to discuss, with links to wikipedia for ease:
  • Shorebirds (Gulls, waders, auks, puffins...)
  • Suliformes (Cormorants, gannets, frigatebirds, darters)
  • Petrels (Petrels, albatrosses, and relatives)
  • Loons
  • Oddballs: Sunbittern, Kagu, Tropicbirds
These are the groups of waterbirds remaining that we did not discuss in previous discussions. In each discussion I will put the focus on one big groups and some smaller niche groups or individual species. Results will be aggregated in the main post.

People who wish to contribute to the previous discussion can do so and I will add their input.
 
Thanks for all participants! I will now aggregate the results. Now we'll move to Birds discussion #2 - Waterbirds - groups to discuss, with links to wikipedia for ease:
  • Shorebirds (Gulls, waders, auks, puffins...)
  • Suliformes (Cormorants, gannets, frigatebirds, darters)
  • Petrels (Petrels, albatrosses, and relatives)
  • Loons
  • Oddballs: Sunbittern, Kagu, Tropicbirds
Shorebirds - I chosen five from the four major groups - for gulls, I would pick the kelp gull (with a widespread range and can be kept in captivity); for waders, I would choose both the pied avocet (another widespread species that is very common in captivity) and the wattled jacana (the most commonly-kept captive jacana species, a lovely looking South American freshwater bird that could fit into most tropical houses); for the auks, I would pick the Atlantic puffin (probably the most charismatic species in the entire family), and for the terns I would pick the Inca tern (a South American endemic that seems to be very common in captivity). I wouldn't mind a couple of other waders, such as the masked lapwing and a species of stone-curlew. The skimmers and skuas I would leave out.

Suliformes - Although all four of the types of bird in this group can and are kept in captivity, I only feel a need for a species of cormorant. At the moment, I cannot decide between the Eurasian great cormorant or little pied cormorant.

Petrels - Most of the petrels are very difficult to keep in captivity; while some albatrosses have been kept successfully - like the Laysan albatross at Monterey Bay Aquarium - they are not displayed in an overly natural way and as such I have no requirement for any in the game.

Loons - Would not want these at all. They apparently really struggle in captivity, as they will only accept live prey. A grebe would be a much better option, personally speaking.

Oddballs - The sunbittern would be great - one of many ideal ground-dwelling South American rainforest birds for the game. The kagu would also be a lovely addition that I would welcome, but equally would struggle to say it was a necessary inclusion. Never heard of tropicbirds being kept in captivity successfully, so I would leave them out as well.
 
Well i haven't participated in this bird discusión yet so here are my opinions about these groups:

Parrots:
  • Macaws: we need at least there Scarlet being the most iconic, the standard macaw everyone thinks about when thinking of these animals and probably the most wanted. The blue and yellow macaw is also very recognizable and I think once you make one macaw you can copy paste the rest with minor changes so it wouldn't be hard to get more than 1. Then my favorite macaw, the hyancinth macaw, which is also relevant because of it's conservation status. Plus is very different from the other two.
  • Cockatoos: sulphur crested, galah and palm cockatoos are the ones i think are the more interesting and important ones to get in the game.
  • Smaller parrots: if interactive experiences are a thing for birds in the sequel, then sun conure, rainbow parakeets, budgerigars and lovebirds would all be awesome.
  • Other parrots: we would need at least one Amazon, the african grey parrot and the kea. The kakapo is not present in captivity and it doesn't count as a flying birds but they are some of my favorites and very unique so i would like them as well.

Hornbills and hoopoes

For hornbills the only one i really need are the great indian hornbill and the rinoceros hornbill. The rufous necked hornbill and the helmeted hornbill would be nice for variety but not essencial. The red billed hornbill and the southern ground hornbill would be good for african Rep of the group.

Idk if toucans are supposed to be discussed in this cathegory as well or were just forgotteb but the tocó toucans is a must. I also really like the keel billed toucans for colour variety. And at least one or two aracari species for tropical houses.

For hoopoes i only care about the eurasian hoopoe.

Nightbirds: all of the hummingbirds. Thanks You very much. No but really, i really want hummingbirds and tbh i would be cool with pretty much any species but i would like at least 5.

I don't personally need any other types of nightbirds but at least one nightjar would be interesting.

Hoatzins: yes.

I saw them in the wild. Very weird birds. Súper interesting. So i want them for the game.
 
Thanks for all participants! I will now aggregate the results. Now we'll move to Birds discussion #2 - Waterbirds - groups to discuss, with links to wikipedia for ease:
  • Shorebirds (Gulls, waders, auks, puffins...)
  • Suliformes (Cormorants, gannets, frigatebirds, darters)
  • Petrels (Petrels, albatrosses, and relatives)
  • Loons
  • Oddballs: Sunbittern, Kagu, Tropicbirds
These are the groups of waterbirds remaining that we did not discuss in previous discussions. In each discussion I will put the focus on one big groups and some smaller niche groups or individual species. Results will be aggregated in the main post.

People who wish to contribute to the previous discussion can do so and I will add their input.
For these, I'm not going to bold or underline anything because I don't know of anything from these categories that is better than a 'nice-to-have' from the previous group, except maybe the puffin. I sort of like the idea of shorebirds, but mostly as a feature of a Marine-Mania-esque expansion.
  • Hoopoes (They weren't included when I initially responded): Seems fine
    • Eurasian Hoopoe: This bird is somewhat interesting, and I think I would like it.
  • Loons: I would like it
    • Common Loon: I love their calls, and they might be nice as a habitat animal.
  • Shorebirds: Maybe appropriate if we get a Marine Expansion, but even then, they are not necessary
    • Auks/Puffins: I would like a puffin, but I don't care much about anything else from this clade.
      • Atlantic Puffin: This is the closest I came to underlining one of these birds. They are pretty iconic, and one would be nice to have.
    • Gulls/Laridae: I would only like them if they came with a Marine expansion.
      • Classic Seagull: Kelp gulls and lesser black backed gulls seem like the best options for classic seagulls.
      • Inca terns: Pretty cool animal that I've seen once.
      • Caspian tern: Widespread classic tern.
      • Bonaparte's Gull: I guess it looks different enough?
    • Sandpipers/Snipes:
      • American Woodcock: They are hilarious and dancers. I would love it, but it seems far from essential.
      • Sandpiper: One or two might be nice if we got a marine expansion.
      • Other Scolopaci: I have no interest in these animals.
    • Plovers & similar: Maybe a lapwing, oystercatcher, and a more basic plover would be nice in a shorebirds section.
    • Jacanas: They are all right. I think I've seen one in a zoo, and I think someone is voting for one in the habitat list.
    • Crab Plover: They are super random, but kind of cool, too. I don't need it.
    • Skuas: I only know of them for killing baby penguins, which has some educational value. I don't want them.
    • Glareolidae: I have no interest in these animals.
    • Buttonquails: I have no interest in these animals.
  • Suliformes (Cormorants, gannets, frigatebirds, darters): I would like the booby and a cormorant, but that's it.
    • Blue-Footed Booby: I love them and they would be great for a Galapagos section.
    • Great Cormorant: It might be nice, but I don't view it as very essential.
    • Great Frigatebird: Interesting but not necessary
    • Darters: not necessary
  • Petrels (Petrels, albatrosses, and relatives): I like albatrosses IRL, but I'm not sure about them in a zoo game
    • Snowy Albatross: biggest albatross
    • Short-tailed Albatross: prettiest albatross
    • Petrels: maybe, but I'm not super interested.
  • Sunbittern: It's ok, but I won't miss it at all. Their wing pattern is kind of cool.
  • Kagu: It's ok, but I won't miss it at all. Their crest is kind of cool.
  • Tropicbirds: They look neat, but I don't think they are necessary.

Again, I only want shorebirds if we have a wide variety of coastal critters, habitat animals, and fully aquatic animals to go with them.
 
Shorebirds:

The Essentials:
Inca Tern:
The quintessential seabird in my experience. Really pretty bird that is often paired with humboldt penguins.
(-Pied Avocet: ) This is the quintessential shorebird in my experience. Shorebird habitats are something that is decently common in zoos in my experience, and i personally really like them. Even tho i think these would be better suited as just habitat animals similar to flamingos or cranes.
(-Atlantic puffin: ) Mostly here because its a pretty iconic and well known species. Similar to the avocet i think these would be better suited as habitat animals

The Good Additions:

(-Cape Dikkop: )
Decent captive presence, neat for african areas, and a room mate for the greater flamingo. Similar two the puffin and avocet i think these would be better of as habitat animals, same for the next three aswell.
(-Masked Lapwing: ) Decent captive presence, neat option for oceania
(-Sunbittern: ) Decent captive presence, neat for SA tropical houses.
(-Great Cormorant: ) Decent captive presence

Yeah, so the only real species im naming for an actual aviary system is the inca tern. To me its not really an essential species for the same reasons macaws, bald eagles and kookaburras are. For parrots, toucans and hornbills youre gonna build very similar stuff, same for eagles, owls and other birds of prey. Throwing in the inca tern is helping with keeping things fresh as youre gonna build something very different for these
 
My thoughts on each group, with critical, essential, important/great, and nice to have species listed:
  • Parrots:
    • Macaws: If we get no other birds, I want macaws. They are popular and iconic.
      • Scarlet Macaw: This is the popular and famous macaw.
      • Blue and Yellow/Blue and Gold Macaw: This one is nearly as famous as the first and would pair nicely with it.
      • Hyacinth Macaw: This one is very popular and more interesting for conservation.
      • Military or Great Green Macaw: A green one would complete the main color patterns of the large macaws. That would be enough for me.
      • Green-winged Macaw: This one is even more common in zoos than the scarlet. I could see a place for it as well.
      • Hybrid Macaws: Not the best ethically, but there are some cool color combos.
    • Lories and Budgies: I've given many budgies millet sticks in zoos, and I've seen a few that give fruit to lorikeets. Feedable small birds would be great.
      • Budgerigar: I see them in zoos all the time. They are super iconic and my second choice for a parrot behind macaws.
      • Rainbow Lorikeet: This one is colorful, popular, and common in zoos. I think they'd be great.
      • Chattering Lory, Red and/or Cardinal Lory, Dusky and/or Black Lory: If they want to pull a grasslands and spam a bunch of lories, these would look nice.
    • Cockatoos: I've seen many of them in zoos, and they are quite popular.
      • Sulfur-Crested Cockatoo (or similar):
      • Palm Cockatoo: This one looks cool and would be very different in coloration
      • Galah: This one has nice colors and is somewhat common in zoos.
      • Pink Cockatoo: It isn't as popular as the others, but it looks cool.
      • Cockatiel: I'm more familiar with them as pets, but I've seen them in a few zoos.
    • African Parrots: The grey parrot is the important one.
      • African Grey Parrot: These are famous and very common in zoos. Many want this parrot.
      • Lovebirds: I don't need them, but they are rather famous.
    • Other New World Parrots: Conures and an Amazonian green also seem important.
      • Amazonian Green Parrot: There are ~30 species, and several of them are pretty common in zoos. One would be nice.
      • Sun Conure: These are so pretty, decently popular, and common in zoos. I would love them.
      • Other Conure(s) (probably golden, Jenday, red-masked, and/or blue-crowned): If they want to pull a grasslands and spam a bunch of conures, these are somewhat common in zoos and would look nice.
    • New Zealand Parrots: These birds and maybe a tuatara would finish off a nice lineup from NZ.
      • Kakapo: I know it doesn't fly. If we get a bunch of parrots, the NZ players' favorite ought to be included.
      • Kea: This one does fly, and would be good, too.
    • Other Asian/Australasian Parrots: Some of these seem pretty nice.
      • Rose-Ringed Parakeet: These are decently common in zoos, have a blue morph, and also live in Africa.
      • Presquet's (Dracula) Parrot: They are interesting and a bit unique.
      • Eclectus Parrots: Their sexual dimorphism is interesting.
      • Eastern Rosella: I love the colors.
      • Red-Breasted Parakeet: I think they look cool.
      • Racket-tailed Parakeet: They look interesting. One might be nice.
  • Hornbills: I think an Asian and an African species would be enough, but more would be nice.
    • Great Hornbill: This is the big, pretty one that everyone wants.
    • Von der Decken's or Red-Billed Hornbill: I think we also need an African hornbill for Zazu in The Lion King.
    • Rhinoceros Hornbill: This one is also somewhat popular and common in zoos.
    • Silvery-Cheeked and Trumpeter Hornbills: These are pretty common in zoos but not as visually interesting or popular.
  • Hoatzin: Other people might disagree with me flagging this one as essential with its low zoo presence, but they are so iconic, interesting, and unique. I love them.
  • Nightbirds: Mostly unnecessary, but there are a few exciting options.
    • Frogmouth:
      • Tawny frogmouth: These are awesome and present in zoos. I would like this.
    • Hummingbirds: They've been suggested often. I don't think they are super common in zoos. They are neat, but not very necessary. I am not one who thinks they would work well. If I'm wrong, I hope for my local ruby-throated hummingbird.
    • Potoo: Neat, but not kept in zoos. Their calls are freaky. I would like
    • Swifts: Somewhat interesting nests, but not necessary
    • Nightjars: Somewhat interesting appearance, but not necessary
    • Oilbird: Not necessary
Essential Parrots:
  • Scarlet Macaw (Central & South America)
  • African Grey Parrot (Africa)
  • Rainbow Lorikeet and/or Budgerigar (Oceania)
Essential Hornbills:
  • Southern Ground Hornbill (Africa)
  • Great Hornbill (Asia)
Essential Nightbirds:
  • Tawny Frogmouth (Oceania)
On the Hoatzin, while this is a very cool bird and I'd love to see it in game eventually, there are many many other birds I'd like to see represented first. They also don't seem to be very common in zoos.
Parrots: Oh, we need a ton. These are going to be the bird equivalent of what cats were to habitat animals, basically. Parrots are incredibly popular, incredibly colorful, and it is very common for zoos to exhibit multiple species. We need, at bare minimum:
  • Scarlet Macaw
  • Blue-and-Gold Macaw
  • African Grey Parrot
  • a Cacatua species
  • Budgerigar
  • Rainbow Lorikeet
Two Ara macaws at barest minimum, I didn’t stutter. I wouldn’t be opposed to more than that, either, or especially the similar-looking Hyacinth Macaw. Further inclusions that it would be very easy to justify would be a conure or amazon species, Cockatiel, or a wildcard such as Princess Parrot, Pesquet's Parrot, or Fan-Headed Parrot, although at that point the exact species matters a bit less than getting a somewhat unique looking parrot on the roster. Ultimately though, I think parrots are a relatively safe pick to continue peppering through releases for as long as development lasts on this hypothetical release.

Hornbills: Great Hornbill is non-negotiable. I’d honestly like to see two of these fairly early on, with the second being either the Silvery-Cheeked Hornbill or Red-Billed Hornbill - either way, a smaller African species that provides some nice visual and geographical contrast. In the long run, I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing several hornbills in total.

I don’t recall if we discussed ground hornbills in a previous discussion, but I think it would also be very nice to have either ground hornbill species. But that would definitely need to be a traditional habitat animal, if we’re working under the assumption that aviaries will be a distinct thing (I haven’t seen the JWE3 stuff so maybe that would provide more context for what we should expect?)

Nightbirds: I wouldn’t call it quite “required”to the same extent as the above, but I think the obvious choice here is the Tawny Frogmouth. They’re pretty unique and interesting birds, and they’d give us a nice oddball inclusion.

The only other thing worth shouting out would be a hummingbird species for obvious reasons - they’re well known, incredibly iconic, and not nonexistent in zoos, but I personally don’t consider them a priority. I can’t picture them working as anything besides a glorified exhibit species, operating on a loop.

Hoatzin: I get the potential appeal, but this is just waaaay too out there to consider remotely a priority. We need a way firmer base of flying birds established before I’d care to even jokingly entertain this much of a curveball.
Parrots
I don't think we can deny thay Parrots are some of the most common and iconic Birds globally. Apart from zoological collections, they are popular as pets, in movies, and even videogames. To ignire parrots in a game with other flying birds sounds like the beginning of an angry mob...
Now, I'm not too knowledgeable about species, but here's what I'd think would be essential:
  1. Macaws - a must. Like, you can't NOT have macaws. All of them are beautiful, but the 2 I think should be definitely added are: scarlet macaws and blue-and-yellow macaws. Anything else will be a huge bonus
  2. Sulfur-crested cockatoo - a classy bird, cockatoos are very fun and I think they'd be just as important as a macaw
  3. Budgerigars - budgies are perhaps the 3rd most popular pet worldwide, following dogs and cats. All kinds of colors and color mutations, all kinds of personalities. These little guys would be exciting to have and fun to watch in-game, honestly, more than the above 2
  4. Monk parrot - the monk parrot is a simple, green parrot. Nothing particularly special, but there are blue and yellow varieties. Many have escaped and thrive in the subtropical/tropical Southeast US, and they'd interesting birds to have. An alternate name is the Quaker Parrot
  5. African grey parrot - these birds are one of the best mimicry experts, able to almost perfectly mimic human speech. They'd also be a prize parrot to showcase in African areas
  6. Lorikeets - the final parrot I feel is essential. They have a huge splash of color and are quite popular
In the case of Parrots, I could see Educators bring them out and do mini shows, like having them mimic PlanCo speech. Might be fun to watch

Hornbills
I don't know a whole lot about hornbills. I've see only 2 in my life, both greater hornbills. They look very cool and I think would be fun to have, and they will particularly flesh out Asian areas. Could also be interesting to house them next to toucans and show the similarities between them

Nightbirds
Ok, so I actually have little to no knowledge about these. I've never seen one, I have no idea of what species they are. Would they be cool? Probably, but I don't know ANYTHING about them

Hoatzin
You know, I was actually thinking earlier today how cool a hoatzin would be. They look primeval, but would be an exotic bird to have. They'd definitely look striking next to macaws. I think they'd be the perfect oddball bird to add 1st thing to the game, actually


So, in summary: Parrots galore. Bring hornbills, too. Nightbirds, meh. Hoatzon, cool oddball
I know there's a one or two hummingbirds species in an old exhibit in the Parc des Oiseaux near Lyon.

A quick search on zootierliste tells me there's also hummingbirds in Plzen, Walsrode, Sant Alessio, Udine, Basel ; but that's it for Europe. They're very rare in Europe.
I don't know much about birds to be honest, so my pics are going to match the most common or well-known species by the general audience.

Parrots: scarlet macaw and blue and yellow macaw are the obvious choices for me. After those two, an African grey parrot would be nice too.

Hornbills: great hornbill or rhinoceros hornbill as an alternative.

I don't know what all other birds you mention are LOL
Parrots
Probably at least six or seven species at least would be necessary, possibly a fair number more (a recent survey of EAZA zoos found that, on average, each zoo houses ten species of parrot). I would say at least two species of macaw are an absolute requirement (one of them being one of the predominantly red species - scarlet or green-winged, and the other a predominantly blue species - blue-and-yellow, blue-throated or hyacinth), plus the Congo grey parrot, a species of cockatoo, the golden conure (personal preference here), the kea and a parakeet (rose-ringed would be my preference, to provide a species found in both Africa and Asia). If I were to found up to ten, I would also add an amazon parrot, a lorikeet and perhaps the thick-billed parrot (a North American species from high-altitude Mexican pinewoods).

Hornbills and hoopoes
I think three hornbill species are needed - one of the larger Asian species (personally, I have no strong attachment to the great hornbill, and possibly would even prefer another species, like the wrinkled, rufous or rhinoceros hornbill), a smaller African species (the Von der Decken's hornbill may be my top choice here) and the Southern ground hornbill, although this one would be a habitat bird.

I would personally love the Eurasian hoopoe, which has a lot going for it - they are beautiful, not uncommonly kept in captivity, have a very wide wild range and are one of the few poisonous birds. However, I'm not sure how absolutely necessary they are.

Nightbirds
Of the birds mentioned in the little list above, the oilbirds and potoos are not kept in captivity and both nightjars and swifts (a relative of this group) cannot be kept in captivity. Among the remaining groups, I wouldn't mind a tawny frogmouth and at least one hummingbird species would be nice - I have personally seen two species in captivity before. One was a Costa's hummingbird, which lived in an indoor tropical walkthrough exhibit mixed with butterflies and other small birds, the other an Amazilia hummingbird that lived in a mesh enclosure similar in size to the in-game exhibits (certainly in Europe, this seems to be the standard way to keep hummingbirds).

Hoatzin
I'm not sure of the history of this species in captivity - I know they have been kept in the past, but I'm not sure if they have ever been bred in captivity. Either way, they are well down my list of requirements.
Parrots

The Essentials:
-Scarlet and Blue and Gold Macaw: Pretty self explainatory, some of the most iconic and common parrots in zoos big and small.
-African Grey Parrot: After macaws probably the most famous among the big parrots and provides one for africa.
-One of Budgie/Cockatiel/Rainbow Lorikeet: One of the classic small walkthrough parrots
-Sulfur-crested Cockatoo: Also rather well known species offering a bigger species for australia

The Good Additions:
-Other Macaw species: I think the two above are the needed ones, but depending on how extensive the bird roster will be more would be cool. The next in line would probably be the hyacinth and military
-Blue-Fronted Amazon: Would be great to have a smaller parrot for SA besides the macaws
-Rose-ringed Parakeet: Cool and common species, offering a parrot species for asia
-Kea: Pretty unique species due to living in mountains
-Rosy-faced Lovebird: Cute and tiny parrot option for africa
-Galah: Very pretty
-Budgie/Cockatiel/Rainbow Lorikeet: I think having 1 of them is essential, but all of them are distinct and common enough that the other two should ideally also be added

Do we need all of these? Probably not, but the 4/5 essential paired with another 3 from the good additions would make a great parrot roster

Hornbills:

The Essentials:
-Greater Hornbill: Actually rather rare species in zoos, but arguably the most famous and striking

The Good Additions:
-Silvery-cheeked Hornbill: One of the more common species for africa
-Trumpeter Hornbill: One of the more common species for asia
-Van der Decken Hornbill: Cool, small savanah living species
-(Ground Hornbill): Id prefer these as habitat species actually.

Nightbirds:

The Essentials: I dont really think there are any that we are absolutely needed

The Good Additions:
-Tawny Frogmouth: Funky oddball species. If we have an neat base bird roster (idk 15 maybe) these would make a cool addition for providing something unique and different
-Potoo: Essentially the same as above, but id prefer the frogmouth between these two

Hoatzin:

Idk what to say here. Its a super unique bird thats currently completely abscent in captivity, so its essentially the saiga of the bird world. Its far from an essential species and i cant really bring myself to call it a particular good addition either, but it would certainly make a super interesting oddball addition.
Well i haven't participated in this bird discusión yet so here are my opinions about these groups:

Parrots:
  • Macaws: we need at least there Scarlet being the most iconic, the standard macaw everyone thinks about when thinking of these animals and probably the most wanted. The blue and yellow macaw is also very recognizable and I think once you make one macaw you can copy paste the rest with minor changes so it wouldn't be hard to get more than 1. Then my favorite macaw, the hyancinth macaw, which is also relevant because of it's conservation status. Plus is very different from the other two.
  • Cockatoos: sulphur crested, galah and palm cockatoos are the ones i think are the more interesting and important ones to get in the game.
  • Smaller parrots: if interactive experiences are a thing for birds in the sequel, then sun conure, rainbow parakeets, budgerigars and lovebirds would all be awesome.
  • Other parrots: we would need at least one Amazon, the african grey parrot and the kea. The kakapo is not present in captivity and it doesn't count as a flying birds but they are some of my favorites and very unique so i would like them as well.

Hornbills and hoopoes

For hornbills the only one i really need are the great indian hornbill and the rinoceros hornbill. The rufous necked hornbill and the helmeted hornbill would be nice for variety but not essencial. The red billed hornbill and the southern ground hornbill would be good for african Rep of the group.

Idk if toucans are supposed to be discussed in this cathegory as well or were just forgotteb but the tocó toucans is a must. I also really like the keel billed toucans for colour variety. And at least one or two aracari species for tropical houses.

For hoopoes i only care about the eurasian hoopoe.

Nightbirds: all of the hummingbirds. Thanks You very much. No but really, i really want hummingbirds and tbh i would be cool with pretty much any species but i would like at least 5.

I don't personally need any other types of nightbirds but at least one nightjar would be interesting.

Hoatzins: yes.

I saw them in the wild. Very weird birds. Súper interesting. So i want them for the game.

Thank you all for your participation, the results have been aggregated in the main post.
 
I'm going to use the hype that would come to the forums in the coming day to get a grasp on a group we avoided when creating this post - Flying Birds.

In the next few weeks, I will start discussions about the bird orders and groups we avoided for PZ1, as recent developments for JWE3 aviary features and heightened discussion about Planet Zoo 2, makes this discussion relevant again.

So let's start: Birds discussion #1 - groups to discuss:
  • Parrots
  • Hornbills and hoopoes
  • Nightbirds (hummingbirds, nightjars, potoo, frogmouths, oil birds and relatives)
  • Hoatzin

In each discussion I will put the focus on one big groups and some smaller niche groups or individual species. Results will be aggregated in the main post.
Nice to see we are back discussing animals here!

First of, might be boring but for my money neither the hoatzin or nightbirds are nessecary additions to a zoo game. Its like mice and the leopard seal, with nightbirds being just unpractical to implement as most of them are either small, static or very eradic and the hoatzin is cool but with no relevance to zoos and would just be a cool one of species just because, which i get the appeal of like i do with the leopard seal but that automaticly makes them not a priority for me personally.

If i had to choose one of the nightbirds though, it would be the tawny frogmouth, as its quite common with 140 holdings and australia is happy for anything it can get. It nicly represents the whole group while at the same time being rather unique from other birds. My biggest qualm with it would be that it might aswell just be a piece of scenery, but thats another discussion. Far from nessecary, but if there had to be one, hed be my choice.

Hot take, but a generic hoppoe would be among my top 5 birds for the game. Looks unique and colorfull with their orange and black feathers and that silly comb of feathers, has an absurd range and even is common in zoos. It also would have a pretty nice size to be realised in game and even isnt weird to see on the ground. Like comeone, what else can match a bird that basicly covers all of the old world and most of its biomes? If i had to pick a subspecies id choose the eurasian as it has the farthest range and the least competition by other colorfull birds then the south east asian and african tropics or subsaharan africa, but best policy here would be a generic hoopoe just like how we got a generic moose instead of a deliberate subspecies.

1749913726949.png


Hornbills are a fun group to talk about as they have 2 perfect choices to represent an arboreal tropical asian species and a close to the ground, grassland african species, but also offer so much more. Most people dont realise how common these birds are, with their most popular depiction with zazou from the lion king being from these group as a northern red billed hornbill. For the two obvious picks, the great hornbill and the southern ground hornbill would be an excellent representation for this group, but id genuinly would love to see many more of them perk their heads, as while not nessecary there are so many beautiful and colorfull hornbills that are common in zoos that would make them a perfect pick for regional representation. One honorable mention would be the Von der Decken Hornbill, as its as far as i can tell the most common hornbill in zoos and a nice representation of a smaller, more flighted savannah hornbill with some nice sexual dimorphism.

Now Parrots. Parrots are easily one of the two most important groups together with raptors and while i usually push the number of birds down to really only include the most nessecary, this still clocks out with a whopping 8 species. Moving through them continentwise, starting with oceania we need atleast 1 cockatoo and 1 smaller parrot. For the cockatoo my choice would be the general allrounder of the sulfur crested cockatoo, with the black palm cockatoo from the tropical north and the pink galah from pretty much everywhere on the australian mainland as my honorable mentions. This trio covers allmost all of oceania with striking differences in couloration and size, giving us a nice trifecta to gun for regarding perfect cockatoo representation, but as we got alot of parrots id choose the most generally known sulfur crested cockatoo as their most important representative. For smaller australian parrots, we find 2 more of my top 5 birds for the game, the budgie with all its different colormorphs and utility as a domestic and the rainbow lorikeet as one of the most beautiful and colorfull parrots. Both are incredibly common in captivtiy, the budgie even is the third most common pet on the planet and both would work very well in the walkthrough exhibit. Just cool little birbos. For an honorable mention, while not nessecarry the kea would be a great choice to further flesh out new zealand.

Moving over to africa and asia, we got a contender for being THE parrot in the public eye, only fighting for macaws with the spot with the african grey parrot. Its one of the most well studied animals regarding their intelligence and the parrot most associated with parrots as intelligent creatures. With 367 Holdings its the 79. most common animal in zoos and just all around iconic. My second choice might be a bit more surprsing, but i believe that the rose-ringed parakeet also deserves to be among our highest priority parrots, for the simple reason that its great range of the african sahel and india offers a savannah and grassland parrot that also can be found as an invasive in many places, for example the parks of my local city in germany, adding some extra utility. It also adds an old world parakeet and member of the Psittacula, the dominant group of parrots on the asian mainland.

And lastly for the americas we need 2 macaws and a little guy. Why 2 macaws? Because anyone that pretends that there is a choice between the scarlet macaw and the blue and yellow macaw is a fool. Im normaly not a fan of adding multiple animals that are more or less a color swap but both of them are so iconic and so recogniseable that it would be a crime to not add both. I bet money that if you ask a person to think of a parrot, the far majority will think about one of these two or the gray parrot and with good reason. The game could never feel complete if flying birds are introduced and these two are absent. For the little guy, i feel that it is important to have an american parrot that just isnt a macaw and my favorite candidate would be the sun conure. These endangerd yellow birds are incredibly common in zoos with 316 holdings and have an active conservation effort backing their breeding. Theyd also just add a very nice color contrast to our other parrots with their bright yellow feathers and orange and green accents.

Overall it wouldnt be hard to tack on 5 more parrots onto this list, with an Electus species being a noteable example of a beautiful and charismatic bird that would be wonderfull to have but just not nessecary in the grandsceme.
 
Starting with the easy ones and progressing into the ones that will take more words.

Tropicbirds, Petrels and Loons - no thanks, no need.

Suliformes - I rather like cormorants, so I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing one, but I wouldn’t call them essential. I’m not sure off hand which ones are internationally common, so I’ll just bring up the only one I’ve personally encountered in zoos - my local Double-Crested Cormorant. I don’t think any of these are really worth consideration besides cormorants, however.

Sunbittern - I really like them, and I think they’re common enough in zoos to consider them a relative priority. Their sun-spotted wings are so cool and I’d love to see them in-game. I think they’d wind up being an unexpectedly popular inclusion.

Kagu - Rare in zoos but still neat birds. I’m not exactly clamoring for them and don’t think that they need to be a priority at all, but I’d have 0 complaints if they did make it in.

Shorebirds - Okay, here goes.
  • Alcids - I think at minimum a puffin would be nice. I think the Atlantic Puffin is the most iconic and its wide range makes it fairly desirable. That said, I’ve never seen an alcid exhibit that features only one species, so I think it would be fun to get at least one partner species - perhaps the Common Murre would work best to provide visual contrast, and it has the added bonus of being present in American, European, and even Asian zoos. I don’t think alcids are of utmost importance, but I think they’d be incredible for bridging the gap between aviaries and aquatics in a way that not much else really could.
  • Terns - The Inca Tern is such an obvious inclusion. Visually striking, fairly common in zoos around the world. Unquestionably the most essential species I’m discussing in this post. Absolutely no downsides to this one.
  • Gulls - I’d like a gull, but there aren’t really any standout candidate species. Gulls seem to be very rarely kept outside of their native ranges (and I assume the ones that are, are largely rescues), aren’t even that common in zoos in general, and unlike with terns or puffins there’s no single species that would simultaneously suit both realistic American and European collections. Guess I’ll follow my cormorant example and shout out my local-ish Laughing Gull with their unique cry and iconic black head, but I realize that won’t do it for everyone and at the end of the day basically any gull will fill the same niche… and I consider them less important than the Inca Tern.
  • Waders - These are really common in zoos, and I feel like they have such an interesting role in exhibits. It’s much more common to see them in mixed exhibits than solo, even sometimes with terrestrial mammals or whatever. I also don’t think they’re quite as “mix and match” as some other types of birds - a Masked Lapwing is probably going to be cohabiting with different species than the Black-Necked Stilt, and the Spotted Thick-Knee in a different one still. Incidentally, those are my three biggest nominations, with them all being at least passably common, and are useful both in mixed aviaries or mixed with mammals in a regional exhibit. They even cover three very different geographical regions! I do acknowledge that three waders is a big ask for the “base game” or however this happens, but I’d very much like to see all three of them before things wrap up. That said, I’d say the priority order goes lapwing, thick-knee, then stilt. Also as less important somewhat-biased picks, I’d also throw out the American Avocet and American Oystercatcher as “stretch goals” here, but I suspect once you move past the big names, waders are also going to be about as geographically divisive as gulls so I wouldn’t expect those to land for non-Americans.
I think that wraps it up! It’s a bit more difficult to decide on things here than when we were doing traditional habitat species - at least there we had the majority of the basics covered by the time we were holding these discussions, and we had a decent enough idea of how many and how often we could expect new species. Maybe I’ll wind up reconsidering what “essential” means and rethink heavily advocating for three waders once I really count just how many passerines we’re going to need…
 
Thinking more about the gulls in particular, one I hadn't thought of before that I'd love to see is the grey gull. It's not the prettiest of gulls, but has some relevance to zoos - they are kept in a few zoos in both Europe and North America, so there is some overlap. They are kept in mixed exhibits with South American penguins and Inca terns, which would make for a lovely naturalistic display, as they also live on the Pacific coast of South America. They also seem sufficiently docile to mix with other aquatic birds - this aviary in Germany had grey gulls with not only Inca terns, but also nearly half a dozen waders and several types of duck (proving beyond doubt in my mind that shorebirds definitely belong in the game).
Also, they have the fun distinction of being one of the only living things to live in the Atacama Desert - they breed up to 100km inland in the desert interior as a way of protecting their young from predators. I think it would be very funny if, in some hypothetical Planet Zoo sequel, we ended up getting a seagull in a desert pack.

The picture is one of mine, taken back when the species was kept at Paignton Zoo.
1749929642107.png
 
Thinking more about the gulls in particular, one I hadn't thought of before that I'd love to see is the grey gull. It's not the prettiest of gulls, but has some relevance to zoos - they are kept in a few zoos in both Europe and North America, so there is some overlap. They are kept in mixed exhibits with South American penguins and Inca terns, which would make for a lovely naturalistic display, as they also live on the Pacific coast of South America. They also seem sufficiently docile to mix with other aquatic birds - this aviary in Germany had grey gulls with not only Inca terns, but also nearly half a dozen waders and several types of duck (proving beyond doubt in my mind that shorebirds definitely belong in the game).
Also, they have the fun distinction of being one of the only living things to live in the Atacama Desert - they breed up to 100km inland in the desert interior as a way of protecting their young from predators. I think it would be very funny if, in some hypothetical Planet Zoo sequel, we ended up getting a seagull in a desert pack.

The picture is one of mine, taken back when the species was kept at Paignton Zoo.
View attachment 432070
That's a cute one. In general I love when zoos mixcolorful stuff like Inca terns with more plain species to show biodiversity
 
I'm going to use the hype that would come to the forums in the coming day to get a grasp on a group we avoided when creating this post - Flying Birds.

In the next few weeks, I will start discussions about the bird orders and groups we avoided for PZ1, as recent developments for JWE3 aviary features and heightened discussion about Planet Zoo 2, makes this discussion relevant again.

So let's start: Birds discussion #1 - groups to discuss:
  • Parrots
  • Hornbills and hoopoes
  • Nightbirds (hummingbirds, nightjars, potoo, frogmouths, oil birds and relatives)
  • Hoatzin

In each discussion I will put the focus on one big groups and some smaller niche groups or individual species. Results will be aggregated in the main post.
Parrots:
One of the most essential groups of flying birds with a wide range of important choices, they are common in zoos and there are plenty I would like to see in game.
  • Macaws are the most important group and at a bare minimum 2 are required the Scarlet and Blue and Yellow however there are a wide range of other Macaws which would be good choices, the Military or Great Green, Hyacinth and Spix's stand out as diverse choices
  • African Grey Parrot is the most important old world species and absolutely essential as well
  • A lorikeet is also essential and the Rainbow Lorikeet clearly stands out as the most prominent and important species
  • Budgies, although I personally don't have much demand for them I understand that they are popular and common in zoos
  • Cockatoos also an important group of parrots the Galah is the most essential with the Sulfur Crested Cockatoo and Red Tailed Black Cockatoo (or similar species) also being quite significant, the Palm Cockatoo is more of an oddball that I would be happy with
  • Keas are one of my favourite species of parrot and I view them as essential
Lovebirds, Conures and Amazons are much less important groups but could still get some representation with the Black Cheeked Love Bird, Sun Conure and Burrowing Parrot being my top picks from each

Hornbills:
These are my favourite group of birds so I probably want a greater diversity than most do
  • Asian Hornbills are in my view the more important group, the Great Hornbill is the most important species of Hornbill, however the Rhinoceros Hornbill is a close second, there are a variety of other Asian Hornbills which are much less significant but I would be happy with getting them something like the Knobbed or Wrinkled Hornbill
  • African Hornbills are also important but definitely less so, there are only really 2 I am interested in getting, one of the Ground Hornbills I would prefer the Southern but don't have that much preference, Von Der Decken's Hornbill is my top candidate for a smaller African Hornbill
Nightbirds:
A much less important group than the others but there are a couple of animals that would be good inclusions
  • A hummingbird might work, they are famous and popular but I am not sure how well they would work in game, no real species preference if we were to get one
  • The Tawny Frogmouth is a unique species that I wouldn't mind seeing but not very high on my priority list
Hoatzin:
Its an interesting species but not one I really want to see in game
 
I'm gonna quickfire this one, because I don't think there are essential picks within these bird groups.

I'd love to see at least one puffin species. Atlantic Puffin has the advantage because of the range, popularity and local bias as an European. I wouldn't mind both Atlantic and Tufted Puffins for variety, but neither are essential.

Next bird that would be a non-essential good pick is the Anhinga. Or rather the South American Anhinga as today I learned that they're all called that. Presence in zoos is pretty local, but it's existing so it qualifies it.

Common Loon would be nice pick to diversify cold zoos and a little bit of ambient noise, but I'm not too crazy for them.

Those were the non-essential good picks, and now for some cool oddballs, that I wouldn't mind to see despite their rarity: Flightless Cormorant (due to behavior and distribution), Magnificent Frigatebird (due to looks) and Kagu (due to looks, distribution and conservation status).

One super-unrealistic pick that I find cool, would be Whiskered Auklet. It looks pretty funky for a seabird, and lives on the very edge of the world on islands in Aleutian and Kurilsk chains. Their zoo presence is 0, but I wouldn't mind one bit to see them in game.

1000028754.jpg
 
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Nice to see we are back discussing animals here!

First of, might be boring but for my money neither the hoatzin or nightbirds are nessecary additions to a zoo game. Its like mice and the leopard seal, with nightbirds being just unpractical to implement as most of them are either small, static or very eradic and the hoatzin is cool but with no relevance to zoos and would just be a cool one of species just because, which i get the appeal of like i do with the leopard seal but that automaticly makes them not a priority for me personally.

If i had to choose one of the nightbirds though, it would be the tawny frogmouth, as its quite common with 140 holdings and australia is happy for anything it can get. It nicly represents the whole group while at the same time being rather unique from other birds. My biggest qualm with it would be that it might aswell just be a piece of scenery, but thats another discussion. Far from nessecary, but if there had to be one, hed be my choice.

Hot take, but a generic hoppoe would be among my top 5 birds for the game. Looks unique and colorfull with their orange and black feathers and that silly comb of feathers, has an absurd range and even is common in zoos. It also would have a pretty nice size to be realised in game and even isnt weird to see on the ground. Like comeone, what else can match a bird that basicly covers all of the old world and most of its biomes? If i had to pick a subspecies id choose the eurasian as it has the farthest range and the least competition by other colorfull birds then the south east asian and african tropics or subsaharan africa, but best policy here would be a generic hoopoe just like how we got a generic moose instead of a deliberate subspecies.

View attachment 432061

Hornbills are a fun group to talk about as they have 2 perfect choices to represent an arboreal tropical asian species and a close to the ground, grassland african species, but also offer so much more. Most people dont realise how common these birds are, with their most popular depiction with zazou from the lion king being from these group as a northern red billed hornbill. For the two obvious picks, the great hornbill and the southern ground hornbill would be an excellent representation for this group, but id genuinly would love to see many more of them perk their heads, as while not nessecary there are so many beautiful and colorfull hornbills that are common in zoos that would make them a perfect pick for regional representation. One honorable mention would be the Von der Decken Hornbill, as its as far as i can tell the most common hornbill in zoos and a nice representation of a smaller, more flighted savannah hornbill with some nice sexual dimorphism.

Now Parrots. Parrots are easily one of the two most important groups together with raptors and while i usually push the number of birds down to really only include the most nessecary, this still clocks out with a whopping 8 species. Moving through them continentwise, starting with oceania we need atleast 1 cockatoo and 1 smaller parrot. For the cockatoo my choice would be the general allrounder of the sulfur crested cockatoo, with the black palm cockatoo from the tropical north and the pink galah from pretty much everywhere on the australian mainland as my honorable mentions. This trio covers allmost all of oceania with striking differences in couloration and size, giving us a nice trifecta to gun for regarding perfect cockatoo representation, but as we got alot of parrots id choose the most generally known sulfur crested cockatoo as their most important representative. For smaller australian parrots, we find 2 more of my top 5 birds for the game, the budgie with all its different colormorphs and utility as a domestic and the rainbow lorikeet as one of the most beautiful and colorfull parrots. Both are incredibly common in captivtiy, the budgie even is the third most common pet on the planet and both would work very well in the walkthrough exhibit. Just cool little birbos. For an honorable mention, while not nessecarry the kea would be a great choice to further flesh out new zealand.

Moving over to africa and asia, we got a contender for being THE parrot in the public eye, only fighting for macaws with the spot with the african grey parrot. Its one of the most well studied animals regarding their intelligence and the parrot most associated with parrots as intelligent creatures. With 367 Holdings its the 79. most common animal in zoos and just all around iconic. My second choice might be a bit more surprsing, but i believe that the rose-ringed parakeet also deserves to be among our highest priority parrots, for the simple reason that its great range of the african sahel and india offers a savannah and grassland parrot that also can be found as an invasive in many places, for example the parks of my local city in germany, adding some extra utility. It also adds an old world parakeet and member of the Psittacula, the dominant group of parrots on the asian mainland.

And lastly for the americas we need 2 macaws and a little guy. Why 2 macaws? Because anyone that pretends that there is a choice between the scarlet macaw and the blue and yellow macaw is a fool. Im normaly not a fan of adding multiple animals that are more or less a color swap but both of them are so iconic and so recogniseable that it would be a crime to not add both. I bet money that if you ask a person to think of a parrot, the far majority will think about one of these two or the gray parrot and with good reason. The game could never feel complete if flying birds are introduced and these two are absent. For the little guy, i feel that it is important to have an american parrot that just isnt a macaw and my favorite candidate would be the sun conure. These endangerd yellow birds are incredibly common in zoos with 316 holdings and have an active conservation effort backing their breeding. Theyd also just add a very nice color contrast to our other parrots with their bright yellow feathers and orange and green accents.

Overall it wouldnt be hard to tack on 5 more parrots onto this list, with an Electus species being a noteable example of a beautiful and charismatic bird that would be wonderfull to have but just not nessecary in the grandsceme.
Parrots:
One of the most essential groups of flying birds with a wide range of important choices, they are common in zoos and there are plenty I would like to see in game.
  • Macaws are the most important group and at a bare minimum 2 are required the Scarlet and Blue and Yellow however there are a wide range of other Macaws which would be good choices, the Military or Great Green, Hyacinth and Spix's stand out as diverse choices
  • African Grey Parrot is the most important old world species and absolutely essential as well
  • A lorikeet is also essential and the Rainbow Lorikeet clearly stands out as the most prominent and important species
  • Budgies, although I personally don't have much demand for them I understand that they are popular and common in zoos
  • Cockatoos also an important group of parrots the Galah is the most essential with the Sulfur Crested Cockatoo and Red Tailed Black Cockatoo (or similar species) also being quite significant, the Palm Cockatoo is more of an oddball that I would be happy with
  • Keas are one of my favourite species of parrot and I view them as essential
Lovebirds, Conures and Amazons are much less important groups but could still get some representation with the Black Cheeked Love Bird, Sun Conure and Burrowing Parrot being my top picks from each

Hornbills:
These are my favourite group of birds so I probably want a greater diversity than most do
  • Asian Hornbills are in my view the more important group, the Great Hornbill is the most important species of Hornbill, however the Rhinoceros Hornbill is a close second, there are a variety of other Asian Hornbills which are much less significant but I would be happy with getting them something like the Knobbed or Wrinkled Hornbill
  • African Hornbills are also important but definitely less so, there are only really 2 I am interested in getting, one of the Ground Hornbills I would prefer the Southern but don't have that much preference, Von Der Decken's Hornbill is my top candidate for a smaller African Hornbill
Nightbirds:
A much less important group than the others but there are a couple of animals that would be good inclusions
  • A hummingbird might work, they are famous and popular but I am not sure how well they would work in game, no real species preference if we were to get one
  • The Tawny Frogmouth is a unique species that I wouldn't mind seeing but not very high on my priority list
Hoatzin:
Its an interesting species but not one I really want to see in game
Your contrbtuions have been added. Tomorrow I will agregate discussion number #2 and then we can have #3 just in time for the new dlc announcement (hopefully). Still hoping for blackbuck and more deer.
 
Thanks for all participants! I will now aggregate the results. Now we'll move to Birds discussion #2 - Waterbirds - groups to discuss, with links to wikipedia for ease:
  • Shorebirds (Gulls, waders, auks, puffins...)
  • Suliformes (Cormorants, gannets, frigatebirds, darters)
  • Petrels (Petrels, albatrosses, and relatives)
  • Loons
  • Oddballs: Sunbittern, Kagu, Tropicbirds
These are the groups of waterbirds remaining that we did not discuss in previous discussions. In each discussion I will put the focus on one big groups and some smaller niche groups or individual species. Results will be aggregated in the main post.

People who wish to contribute to the previous discussion can do so and I will add their input.
Going from bottom to top:

I do not think a Kagu, Tropicbird, Loon or Petrel is essential or even that worthwhile for the game. The kagu is a gimicky ground bird that competes with and fails utterly against the victorian crowned pidgeon and the rest are all not present in captivity and would all be heavily outclassed by a duck. Ofcourse this is a taxonomy list, but if id rather have duck number 7. instead of animal x, i doubt that id call it nessecary for the game.

The sunbittern on the other hand is pretty cool. A rarely flying bird from tropical south and central america with 93 holdings and a subtle yet distinct plumage? Yes please.
The sunbittern is a great choice for a roaming bird in a tropical house or an additional species in a wetlands display with for example capybaras and has not just an easy but obvious place in the game.

Regarding suliformes, while not nessecary a Cormorant would be cool, everybody else again looses to duck number 7. Talking just numbers, the great cormorant is not just the most vanilla choice, known in many countrys as just cormorant, its also the most common in captivity by far, with just the eurasian subspecies having 75 holdings and thats just one of its 6 accepted subspecies. And yeah, look at this, this is its range, this is bonkers. Ofcourse across multiple subspecies but the eurasian cormorant covers all of asia, central and southern europe, the mediteranean and parts of africa. Its still absolutely insane. For an honorable mention, the little pied cormorant looks rather distinct by being much smaller with a mostly white colloration and is found across indonesia, australia and newzealand with 15 holdings, 11 of them in oceania, offering a nice regional sidegrade.
1750108566776.png


Now for the shorebirds, did i just say the cormorant range is crazy?
1750109492430.png


Yeah the pied advocet heard that and stacks 122 holdings to boot on top of being an incredibly unique looking bird with its curved beak and black and white feathers. I could talk longer but they are viable for general african aviarys, shore bird aviarys, central asia, india, arabia, the sahel and even one of the most iconic inhabitants of the waden sea. Yeah id say they earned a spot on the roster.

Keeping on theme of basic wading bird with an amazing range we got the oystercatcher. Not only do they live on shores worldwide, settling every continent besides antarctica, they also look very similar, so besides some minor differences in size and coloration (some subspecies have white bellies, some black) getting one would give us a great choice for literally everywhere. If we have to choose a specific subspecies, the eurasian oystercatcher is not only the most numerous in zoos with 76 holdings, it also has the furthest range across 3 continents and many different biomes, making it an easy choice. Also doesnt hurt that as far as i can tell it looks identical to the australian and new zealand subspecies, leaving only the americas lacking.
1750110364838.png



Next up, the spotted thick-knee (africa), the eurasian stone-curlew (eurasia and northern africa) and bush stone-curlew (australia and tiny bit new guinea) are all equally valid candidates to represent stone-curlews/thick-knees, the propaply weirdest named birds so far, especally when the german name is just "Triel". These guys are interesting, as while waders, they are nocturnal groundbirds that largely prefer open enviroments, with many of them specialising in arid and semi arid enviroments. They might not be on everyones radar, but i genuinly think that one of them would be a great addition as just a very different type of ground dwelling bird, with all 3 species being common in zoos and no species obviously a better pick then the other two in my opinion.

A much easier choice is picking a plover species, as theres one that stands head and shoulders above the rest with the masked lapwing. Its not only the largest plover, not just the plover with by far the largest and most global presence in zoos with 120 holdings with atleast one on every continent, its also among the most visually unique with its bright yellow wattles. Have i also mentioned its from oceania? 10/10 animal right here. For an honorable mention, the northern lapwing is a great choice to flesh out eurasia with a very distinct colorsheme of greens, purple and the usual white and black with a nice headcreast and a respectable 44 holdings in zoos, but it would be a very europe centric pick, meanwhile the masked lapwing would be great for literally everyone. It would be nice to have both though.

For sandpipers, we have two neat options. One is the common redshank, another eurasian species of wading bird with an insane range, decent holding of 45 and a look thats both generic to represent its whole family well but with one standout feature in its red leg. It would be a perfectly fine addition to the game, even if its a little boring one.

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But the redshank is just my honorable mention, cause my real contender is the ruff. Its range is pretty great, covering most of subsaharan africa, india, a bit of europe, the middle east and even australia and new guinea, but all those blue zones are just where they go of to when not breeding, as their breeding range is the northern european coast and eurasian tundra. Its a tundra bird that likes to breed in marshes across the eurasian tundra, thats also a grassland and coastal bird of the temperate, tropic and suptropic. Wanna go even better? Its highly sexually dimorph, with the females looking like a pretty standard sandpiper and the males are not only larger but have a colorfull breeding display with bright orange faces surrounded by a big fluffy mane or collar of long white feathers that lends them their name. So we got two for one, the boring and the bonkers. Combine that with the fact that they are found in 35 zoos across 3 continents and are among the most prominent birds of the waden sea, the only area in the world where they live year round and we got an s tier 10/10 contentder for the game at our hands.

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So far this list has been very oldworld focused so to represent the americas they will not just get the obvious and deserved Inca tern, but also the grey gull as our gull representative. These two birds both share a range consisting of more or less all of the western coast of south america, a criminally underrepresented region in game. The inca tern is a must include, as its not just a very colorfull bird and the only tern with a decent captive presence, but also adds a true cliff and open ocean bird to our collection that we have been missing so far. Its also the by far most common in zoos with 85 holdings, most of them in europe and north america but also 9 in asia and 1 in south america. It adds something truly unique to the bird roster with many different ways to present it, from tropical beach to a high cliff to sand dunes to a guano island in the open ocean. And the same goes for the grey gull, thats also among the most commonly kept gulls in captivity with 13 holdings, 8 in europe, 4 in NA and 1 in SA. Afaik only the black headed gull is more common with 26 holdings and my honorable mention, with a bonkers range of everywhere in eurasia, tipps of greenland and canada and all oceans of the old world north of the equator more or less and a cute black head. The grey gull mostly succeeds by proxy of no more common or more interesting gull, as a desert breeding south american gull that has inherent synergy with the inca tern is just a bit more interesting then the black headed gull.

Overall its a shame that we do not have any shore birds in the game, as its just such a diverse and common group to see. Theyd also finally offer something completly new with wading bird aviarys which atleast here in germany are quite common and often beautiful displays that just make no sense to build for in the moment without mods, pretending or callums great fake birds. Theyd also fill in nicely lacking spots in the roster and effortlessly improve the rosters of many different regions, as theyd add something totally different to build for no matter where they are added and greatly synergies with each other for mixed displays. Just an overall wonderfull group, id gladly buy an animal pack of the 7 i ended up choosing, what a perfect little number for a perfectly awesome group of birds
 
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Thanks for all participants! I will now aggregate the results. Now we'll move to Birds discussion #2 - Waterbirds - groups to discuss, with links to wikipedia for ease:
  • Shorebirds (Gulls, waders, auks, puffins...)
  • Suliformes (Cormorants, gannets, frigatebirds, darters)
  • Petrels (Petrels, albatrosses, and relatives)
  • Loons
  • Oddballs: Sunbittern, Kagu, Tropicbirds
These are the groups of waterbirds remaining that we did not discuss in previous discussions. In each discussion I will put the focus on one big groups and some smaller niche groups or individual species. Results will be aggregated in the main post.

People who wish to contribute to the previous discussion can do so and I will add their input.
Ok, so honestly I haven't seen many of these.
I've seen gulls in zoos. Puffins are extremely charismatic and wild be the perfect oddball for a bird roster.

Actually, I'm just gonna say that none of these are particularly essential to a zoo game, for birds we have way more priorities. However, I would be lying if I didn't say that some of these wouldn't be big hits, particularly the puffin
 
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