I think the tritium was dialled down after fdev "fixed " the mining glut that everyone was using to get enough money to have a FC , instead of dropping the price they dropped the drop rates on certain mats which of course affected the trtuim drop rates which in turn sort of broke the trit mining so Fdev then rather than fix the issue just put gave a fixed number to fuel usage which was better than at the begining .
A bit of history: What was the Fleet Carriers update like?
- Thread starter DjVortex
- Start date
Yeh I remember this too guys, but I don't buy 'technical limitations'. I manage large scale applications for a living (10s of thousands of simultaneous users) that have to manage people doing the same things at the same time, timesheets on the last day of the month, etc, load is managed entirely automatically, it just costs more at peak times, but that's the nature of the thing. Don't get me wrong, this is not a big issue for me, but to say technical limitations just means cost limitations. I'm fine with that tbh though.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed - the difference in approach, I expect, is that those large scale applications charge over time for their service whereas the game is "buy once, play as long as the game remains online" - so the effort / cost increasing at busy times pays for itself for the service provision whereas it would add to the running costs of the game (that are not recouped from those playing).
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By the time FCs actually were available in game we had been warned about things like the initial cost so people were grinding their favourite goldmines to get ready.
Then we got two betas the first one was met with outrage because the credit costs were not reduced, I got hold of an FC in the second beta when they did reduce the costs.
Jump timers were not popular with the initial timer being 90(?) minutes and the cooldown being 30 minutes both fixed times, FDev said when they changed those to what we finally ended up with that we were at the minimum safe time and they would only say that they were target times and slippage was likely.
As with colonisation some were upset that this wasn’t what they had hoped FDev meant…
Then we got two betas the first one was met with outrage because the credit costs were not reduced, I got hold of an FC in the second beta when they did reduce the costs.
Jump timers were not popular with the initial timer being 90(?) minutes and the cooldown being 30 minutes both fixed times, FDev said when they changed those to what we finally ended up with that we were at the minimum safe time and they would only say that they were target times and slippage was likely.
As with colonisation some were upset that this wasn’t what they had hoped FDev meant…
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the lack of Universal Cartographics on carriers, which caused quite some controversy during the FC beta. Large enough that even some Youtubers jumped on the bandwagon. At first, we didn't know if UC missing was a bug or as an intended (lack of a) feature. Many people would have liked it as a means to support their carriers anchored out in the black, and besides, it would have been the only service missing from carriers.
Then during one of the streams, a Frontier employee (I can't remember who) confirmed that having no UC is intended, because "they wanted to preserve the experience of returning" to the bubble. Might not be the exact quote, but the phrase was that. Plenty of people did not like this reasoning, some mocked that choice of words, and it didn't take long for Frontier to reverse this decision, and introduce UC to carriers, with a payout penalty at least.
Also, a bit more about the fuel consumption. I led what might have been the first carrier-based survey expedition, the Inverness Nebula Survey, and our initial plan was to do a circle somewhat tightly around the core then end at Colonia, because this was what a full hold of tritium would have gotten us - and we still might have had to refuel along the way. (Remember: no STAR or anyone at the time to do that for you.) Now, one of fuel buffs was done during the voyage IIRC, and the difference it made was that we could do a leisurely route around the edges of the core, and get to Colonia with still some tritium to spare. So, it was quite the boon.
By the way, for group exploration the carriers were amazing, as it made keeping players together so much easier than before. Those who travelled slower, had to stop playing for some time or fell behind for any reason, could still easy keep pace, because those Brewer ships could do exactly what their name said: carried the fleet. Some people bemoaned that expeditions could now be done by players sitting it out on a carrier, but for others, it made organising surveys, searches, and simply just waypoint meetups, so much easier and more convenient.
On the other hand, what I didn't expect on my carrier survey expedition was that I spent that much more time (re)planning routes and executing them that I got to actually explore far less than I originally thought I would. Granted, that would be easier today, just insert the numbers into Spansh's carrier plotter and go.
Oh, and we picked up a person along the way who came across us, saw that we were moving (because they docked just before I had the carrier leave again), and then decided to stay because they liked the idea of a mobile base exploring through the galaxy. That was a pleasant surprise to both parties.
Then during one of the streams, a Frontier employee (I can't remember who) confirmed that having no UC is intended, because "they wanted to preserve the experience of returning" to the bubble. Might not be the exact quote, but the phrase was that. Plenty of people did not like this reasoning, some mocked that choice of words, and it didn't take long for Frontier to reverse this decision, and introduce UC to carriers, with a payout penalty at least.
Also, a bit more about the fuel consumption. I led what might have been the first carrier-based survey expedition, the Inverness Nebula Survey, and our initial plan was to do a circle somewhat tightly around the core then end at Colonia, because this was what a full hold of tritium would have gotten us - and we still might have had to refuel along the way. (Remember: no STAR or anyone at the time to do that for you.) Now, one of fuel buffs was done during the voyage IIRC, and the difference it made was that we could do a leisurely route around the edges of the core, and get to Colonia with still some tritium to spare. So, it was quite the boon.
By the way, for group exploration the carriers were amazing, as it made keeping players together so much easier than before. Those who travelled slower, had to stop playing for some time or fell behind for any reason, could still easy keep pace, because those Brewer ships could do exactly what their name said: carried the fleet. Some people bemoaned that expeditions could now be done by players sitting it out on a carrier, but for others, it made organising surveys, searches, and simply just waypoint meetups, so much easier and more convenient.
On the other hand, what I didn't expect on my carrier survey expedition was that I spent that much more time (re)planning routes and executing them that I got to actually explore far less than I originally thought I would. Granted, that would be easier today, just insert the numbers into Spansh's carrier plotter and go.
Oh, and we picked up a person along the way who came across us, saw that we were moving (because they docked just before I had the carrier leave again), and then decided to stay because they liked the idea of a mobile base exploring through the galaxy. That was a pleasant surprise to both parties.
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I am not a tech expert here, but I guess you do know the old presentation by Dav about how the backend works. I am guessing the "technical limit" is really a teachnical limit imposed by costs, as it's probably to do with data propagation through their on-the-fly created AWS instances and all that. Be it as it may, it seems to be a hard limit set by however the system works.
After the Thargoids retreated in August 2019, following over a year and a half of weekly attacks on stations that had begun in December 2017, Fleet Carriers were due to come out for Xmas. So when we had a lack of Galnet from August till Xmas I wasn't too worried, I would rather they focused on the update and got it right than splitting their attention by trying to do too much at once and making a mess of it.
But then an open letter from the community in November said we are not interested in any new content while there are long standing bugs you still haven't fixed. Fix the existing content first before adding new stuff.
Fdev said ok, and said that fleet carriers would be delayed for 6 months while they did that. Two major bug fixes were planned, one for January 2020 and the other for around April, with the promise that they would work on those bugs until they were gone.
The first bug fix came out in January as promised and with it came some changes like making any SLF pilot you had trained part of your ship rebuy, so you no longer lost them if your ship got destroyed.
Also in January we had some new Thargoid attacks. These attacks were different to the last ones. Instead of attacking 6 stations a week with attacks that were seen off in the same week, for the first time we had an attack that lasted at least 2 weeks. We were also told that the Eagle Eye System created by Aegis to predict Thargoid attacks, which had worked reliably for the previous attacks, could no longer be relied on. This felt like the start of a new story as well as new tactics from the Belligerent Broccoli. The attacks were more targeted and less random than before, hitting anti xeno factions and support factions like Operation Ida. I remember at the time Grimscrub from AXI saying to me "It's mental Phill, it's like they are throwing everything at us to see what we can cope with."
The attacks went on for a few weeks and then we all went into lockdown because of the Covid pandemic. People moaned about not much Galnet, again, which I personally felt was pretty uncharitable of them since the entire staff had to reorganise their whole lives and work from home. So if things were going to take a bit longer and the story had to once again fall by the wayside for a while I think fdev should have been cut a bit of slack instead of condemned by people moaning about the lack of narrative. This is not me white knighting for them, if I think they have done something wrong I am the first to say so, but in this case I felt that was particularly unfair of the community.
Then around April fdev announced that they would be rolling the second bug fix into the fleet carrier update and I saw this as a positive thing, if they felt confident enough in their fixes to do that.
We then had a beta where a copy of your account was used to test the new content and feedback to fdev before it got integrated into the main game.
This is a video I made for fun in the Beta itself.
The Void Opal rush that was mentioned by Rock Hunter was ok but was also less profitable by then and Low Temperature Diamonds were where it was at. I mined them for 6 weeks solid to get my carrier until I had double what I would need to buy and fully outfit one, around 17 billion credits, and until I started seeing rocks in my sleep.
It was pretty stable and the main gripe was about upkeep costs. They were nowhere near as bad as the drama queens at the time were saying, though, and came over to me like the whine of somebody expecting something for nothing. The upkeep was not onerous and nothing you couldn't get by doing a few missions at an allied station. If you were not playing enough to do that you didn't need a carrier anyway. I saw the carrier as an investment and an asset and so the idea of some kind of maintenance cost was not unusual. If I owned a building IRL I would not expect it to remain in mint condition without some maintenance. We pay to maintain our ships every time we dock, so once a week for a carrier is not the end of the world.
The Tritium was the biggest issue in reality, although as it got drowned by the upkeep whiners you'd never have guessed. Tritium didn't last very long, was difficult to mine or buy in the vast quantities needed and was a bit of a pain, but that got improved in time. At least in terms of the cost per jump.
Personally I felt it was worth every credit just to have your own mobile station where you could keep all your ships and modules and take them wherever you liked, as opposed to having them stored in stations everywhere which was frankly a nuisance.
What was impressive was the update went in without causing any bugs of its own and the beta ran smoothly even on my old I5.
Also in the beta was a burning station which for our squad was ideal as we do rescues from burning stations. I could take my carrier to the system and they could all use it to deploy their rescue ships from. This also made me wonder if the story that had been cut short in February was due to start up again.
And as it turned out by the time the carriers were fully integrated into the game in July/August we were only a month away from the return of Galnet and the start of a two year superstory that began with the NMLA terrorist attacks on stations, bringing station attacks back again but with a twist, and which ended with Salvation the supermuppet getting his comeuppance from our favourite aliens who gave him a large portion of hubris and fries.
Since then the upkeep has been further reduced, the efficiency of Tritium has been increased, although mining it is still a pain, and the biggest issue is the inability to remotely fill the Tritium tank from any Tritium you have in your hold. I suppose this is to stop players cheesing jumps while being nowhere near their carrier but it seems like an artificial obstacle, when you have to return to the carrier every 7 jumps or so to refill the tank. From a roleplay perspective it makes little sense either, are they seriously telling us we can't get the crew to shift some rocks from the hold to the tank? You'd think they were paid enough to do that even if my crew look like a bunch of criminals who dropped out of rehab.
But then an open letter from the community in November said we are not interested in any new content while there are long standing bugs you still haven't fixed. Fix the existing content first before adding new stuff.
Fdev said ok, and said that fleet carriers would be delayed for 6 months while they did that. Two major bug fixes were planned, one for January 2020 and the other for around April, with the promise that they would work on those bugs until they were gone.
The first bug fix came out in January as promised and with it came some changes like making any SLF pilot you had trained part of your ship rebuy, so you no longer lost them if your ship got destroyed.
Also in January we had some new Thargoid attacks. These attacks were different to the last ones. Instead of attacking 6 stations a week with attacks that were seen off in the same week, for the first time we had an attack that lasted at least 2 weeks. We were also told that the Eagle Eye System created by Aegis to predict Thargoid attacks, which had worked reliably for the previous attacks, could no longer be relied on. This felt like the start of a new story as well as new tactics from the Belligerent Broccoli. The attacks were more targeted and less random than before, hitting anti xeno factions and support factions like Operation Ida. I remember at the time Grimscrub from AXI saying to me "It's mental Phill, it's like they are throwing everything at us to see what we can cope with."
The attacks went on for a few weeks and then we all went into lockdown because of the Covid pandemic. People moaned about not much Galnet, again, which I personally felt was pretty uncharitable of them since the entire staff had to reorganise their whole lives and work from home. So if things were going to take a bit longer and the story had to once again fall by the wayside for a while I think fdev should have been cut a bit of slack instead of condemned by people moaning about the lack of narrative. This is not me white knighting for them, if I think they have done something wrong I am the first to say so, but in this case I felt that was particularly unfair of the community.
Then around April fdev announced that they would be rolling the second bug fix into the fleet carrier update and I saw this as a positive thing, if they felt confident enough in their fixes to do that.
We then had a beta where a copy of your account was used to test the new content and feedback to fdev before it got integrated into the main game.
This is a video I made for fun in the Beta itself.
The Void Opal rush that was mentioned by Rock Hunter was ok but was also less profitable by then and Low Temperature Diamonds were where it was at. I mined them for 6 weeks solid to get my carrier until I had double what I would need to buy and fully outfit one, around 17 billion credits, and until I started seeing rocks in my sleep.
It was pretty stable and the main gripe was about upkeep costs. They were nowhere near as bad as the drama queens at the time were saying, though, and came over to me like the whine of somebody expecting something for nothing. The upkeep was not onerous and nothing you couldn't get by doing a few missions at an allied station. If you were not playing enough to do that you didn't need a carrier anyway. I saw the carrier as an investment and an asset and so the idea of some kind of maintenance cost was not unusual. If I owned a building IRL I would not expect it to remain in mint condition without some maintenance. We pay to maintain our ships every time we dock, so once a week for a carrier is not the end of the world.
The Tritium was the biggest issue in reality, although as it got drowned by the upkeep whiners you'd never have guessed. Tritium didn't last very long, was difficult to mine or buy in the vast quantities needed and was a bit of a pain, but that got improved in time. At least in terms of the cost per jump.
Personally I felt it was worth every credit just to have your own mobile station where you could keep all your ships and modules and take them wherever you liked, as opposed to having them stored in stations everywhere which was frankly a nuisance.
What was impressive was the update went in without causing any bugs of its own and the beta ran smoothly even on my old I5.
Also in the beta was a burning station which for our squad was ideal as we do rescues from burning stations. I could take my carrier to the system and they could all use it to deploy their rescue ships from. This also made me wonder if the story that had been cut short in February was due to start up again.
And as it turned out by the time the carriers were fully integrated into the game in July/August we were only a month away from the return of Galnet and the start of a two year superstory that began with the NMLA terrorist attacks on stations, bringing station attacks back again but with a twist, and which ended with Salvation the supermuppet getting his comeuppance from our favourite aliens who gave him a large portion of hubris and fries.
Since then the upkeep has been further reduced, the efficiency of Tritium has been increased, although mining it is still a pain, and the biggest issue is the inability to remotely fill the Tritium tank from any Tritium you have in your hold. I suppose this is to stop players cheesing jumps while being nowhere near their carrier but it seems like an artificial obstacle, when you have to return to the carrier every 7 jumps or so to refill the tank. From a roleplay perspective it makes little sense either, are they seriously telling us we can't get the crew to shift some rocks from the hold to the tank? You'd think they were paid enough to do that even if my crew look like a bunch of criminals who dropped out of rehab.
It's even simpler than that--³H is a gas, all they need is to install a pipe between cargo hold and fuel tank
To me it is a very obvious mechanic to tie the player to the Fleet Carrier and not make able to be too autonomous. You can discuss if you like it or not or if it is good or bad, but by now, this seems very deliberate. Want to your carrier to be able to move? Take care of it yourself. It will never be automated, if you ask me.
It wasn't "the community" it was a bunch of self-appointed guardians of the game.
None of the influencers etc. in said open letter spoke for me with my permission... (in fact, they never even asked!)
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That's interesting because I was asked to sign it if I agreed with it and afaik nobody ever claimed they were speaking for everyone, or for me if I didn't support it. I saw that as the same as any other petition, if it got enough signatures it was put forward and it was always down to fdev to do it or not. I disagree that it was any kind of movement by "gatekeepers" and as I recall there were as many content providers and influencers who stayed out of it as those who supported it.
The bugs they wanted fixing were long standing ones and that was a fact regardless of any other factor or agenda you think they had.
Were fleet carries only for squadrons initially and everyone kicked off so we got personal Cmdr carriers instead?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
They were originally announced as Squadron Carriers (at the Frontier Expo in October 2017:
however while Squadrons were added to the game in Beyond: Chapter 4 (in December 2018) the Carriers didn't appear until June 2020, after what was effectively an eighteen month content drought.
Whether it was a combination of eighteen months of monitoring uptake of Squadrons, or taking into account that all players had experienced a content drought (which may have made releasing Carriers for Squadrons only seem a bit crass [as the last two updates in that eighteen month period would then have been about Squadrons] towards those who weren't interested in following the whim of a Squadron Leader) that changed Frontier's mind is unclear.
There was certainly a backlash from some of the community who did not want to see the new content restricted to Squadrons.
Hi 
When they were first introduced the cost and running costs were initially prohibitive to me (I think my bank balance in credits was roughly at a guess about 3 billion), so I resigned myself to not having the opportunity of buying one, mixed feelings at the time of whether I really needed one as well.
Gradually the game itself became more generous with pay-outs for different things so eventually I managed to scrape together about 7 billion and bought one. I've got to admit the carrier is indispensable to me personally now, it's so damn useful for many game scenarios.
Hi
Thanks' for posting that up...it had me in stitches!
'A picture is worth a thousand words'
Jack
When they were first introduced the cost and running costs were initially prohibitive to me (I think my bank balance in credits was roughly at a guess about 3 billion), so I resigned myself to not having the opportunity of buying one, mixed feelings at the time of whether I really needed one as well.
Gradually the game itself became more generous with pay-outs for different things so eventually I managed to scrape together about 7 billion and bought one. I've got to admit the carrier is indispensable to me personally now, it's so damn useful for many game scenarios.
Hi
Thanks' for posting that up...it had me in stitches!
'A picture is worth a thousand words'
Jack
Hi
Great Idea!......and an on or off 'tap' in the cockpit (or cockpit menu) to regulate it.
Jack
It's even simpler than that--³H is a gas, all they need is to install a pipe between cargo hold and fuel tank
Great Idea!...
...and an on or off 'tap' in the cockpit (or cockpit menu) to regulate it. Jack
I suppose that's quite a running theme with this game...
Indeed, but the credit rewards weren't so high at the time of the Fleet Carriers update itself. Though plenty of credits could still be made back then through particular activities such as LTD and Void Opal mining.
Ultimately it was the Thargoid War that pushed me from a single-digit to a double-digit Billionaire, and I think I have about 40 years worth of Carrier upkeep in there just now.
So FDev is now going to implement that original idea with the Vanguards update?
It sounds like it... (not hanging any preconceptions on this)