Core Dynamics is an entirely irrelevant manufacturer now...

[Agony_Aunt]

OTOH, the five hardpoints of Cobra V means you can always have a corrosive MC or frag to negate the armor piercing penalty of medium weapons. Or you can use weapons that intrinsically have high AP even at medium size (plasma, railguns). The Concord cannons are a natural weapon for Cobra V and Mandalay, and these excel at taking out power plants (unless the target ship has 3 MRP-s, like Powerplay NPC-s at certain signal sources seem to have), making both ships very effective big ship killers even with their limited hardpoints

I really like the flexibility of Cobra V, it's the perfect CSAR ship for Powerplay.

For CSAR it is indeed a fine ship.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

And the limitation in loadout offered by only two hardpoints. And the small and few optional slots, and the most vulnerable canopy in the game, and the easiest small ship to hit with fixed weapons (passenger and cargo ships aside). And another thing... nah just kidding but yeh... Make CD Great Again.

I have put the G6 overcharged powerplant from a CG a while back into my Vulture. When I can actually run a size 5 prismatic with a size 5 SCB and two APA, I don't find those two hardpoints that limiting

 

[HRDiagram]

So Vulture mk2 then.

SCO compliant.
Better PP.
Single Huge hard point.
…

Bonus feature:

the recoil of such a massive weapon on such a small ship will automatically send the Vulture MkII into reverse Frameshift every time it shoots.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Bruh...

I mained a pvp FAS back before engineering was a thing, believe me I want to love the FAS, I still have one, I don't use it. The Vulture is a victim in pvp compared to the cobra V and in no way comparable in combat (if you ever want a demonstration fo this, let me know ), plus the limitation of only 2 hardpoints makes weapon variety a real problem, it's a weak ship now in every way.
Yeh I love the FGS too, but that doesn't change the fact it's a suboptimal choice compared to several more recent ships for ANY role its capable of.
No I didn't mean the crusader, and being able to carry a fighter is not technically related to the strength of the mother ship. The FGS has a very small hardpoint size advantage as well, but the challenger is just better. Also the Corsair, Python 2 and Krait are all much better, too, the challenger is the lowest ship that's better, that's how irrelevant the FGS is now. The chally even has the same excellent biweave recharge as the FGS.

The FDS is a ship not even a mother could love, like the Crusader, since you mentioned it. But Lakon doesn't need the love, Core Dynamics does.

These ships are nothing but nostalgia and novelties in the current game, to say otherwise is a bizarre position to take, you know my complaints aren't coming from lack of experience, plus the fact that Core Dynamics has had NO love, ever. It's their time

How are we supposed to spread freedom across the galaxy in these archaic tanks

Because they are still fine ships. There is an argument that with the new ships coming out then all older ships are becoming obsolete, and some are making that argument. My position is, the CD ships are still damn fine ships, they haven't got any worse, they haven't been downgraded, and they still compare well to the Alliance ships you compared them to.

Also, why are you fixated on the FDS's combat capability? That's not its best role.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

Also, why are you fixated on the FDS's combat capability? That's not its best role.

What hurts the FDS in other roles are the two military only slots.

 

[CMDR X]

The Vette could definitely do with an update.
Make it SCO compatible, squeeze in class 2 HPs instead of the class 1's and buff its speed.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Also, why are you fixated on the FDS's combat capability? That's not its best role.

Because for everything else you're just as well or better off using an Asp Scout (unless you're carrying cargo and then the T-7 says hello).

 

[Agony_Aunt]

What hurts the FDS in other roles are the two military only slots.

Not much, it still has 9 internal slots that can be used for anything - firmly making it a decent multirole ship. The 2 military slots can be left empty or used to beef up the ship. I like to put Guardian Shield Reinforcements in those.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Because for everything else you're just as well or better off using an Asp Scout (unless you're carrying cargo and then the T-7 says hello).

A type 7 for cargo? You mad bro? Its for exploration! (No joke, i once went exploring in a Type 7).

 

[Three Stars]

Because they are still fine ships. There is an argument that with the new ships coming out then all older ships are becoming obsolete, and some are making that argument. My position is, the CD ships are still damn fine ships, they haven't got any worse, they haven't been downgraded, and they still compare well to the Alliance ships you compared them to.

Yep, that’s the thing. Just because they invent a new flavor of ice cream doesn’t mean you have to stop eating the older flavors, especially if you like them.

 

[Bigmaec]

Bruh...

I mained a pvp FAS back before engineering was a thing, believe me I want to love the FAS, I still have one, I don't use it. The Vulture is a victim in pvp compared to the cobra V and in no way comparable in combat (if you ever want a demonstration fo this, let me know ), plus the limitation of only 2 hardpoints makes weapon variety a real problem, it's a weak ship now in every way.
Yeh I love the FGS too, but that doesn't change the fact it's a suboptimal choice compared to several more recent ships for ANY role its capable of.
No I didn't mean the crusader, and being able to carry a fighter is not technically related to the strength of the mother ship. The FGS has a very small hardpoint size advantage as well, but the challenger is just better. Also the Corsair, Python 2 and Krait are all much better, too, the challenger is the lowest ship that's better, that's how irrelevant the FGS is now. The chally even has the same excellent biweave recharge as the FGS.

The FDS is a ship not even a mother could love, like the Crusader, since you mentioned it. But Lakon doesn't need the love, Core Dynamics does.

These ships are nothing but nostalgia and novelties in the current game, to say otherwise is a bizarre position to take, you know my complaints aren't coming from lack of experience, plus the fact that Core Dynamics has had NO love, ever. It's their time

How are we supposed to spread freedom across the galaxy in these archaic tanks

I agree with everything you say but man do you have to speak so harsh about my FDS?

 

[Aashenfox]

Because they are still fine ships. There is an argument that with the new ships coming out then all older ships are becoming obsolete, and some are making that argument. My position is, the CD ships are still damn fine ships, they haven't got any worse, they haven't been downgraded, and they still compare well to the Alliance ships you compared them to.

Also, why are you fixated on the FDS's combat capability? That's not its best role.

We are what we are

I'm sorry man, I just can't agree that they are 'still' fine ships. They are firmly the worst medium combat ships of all. FAS used to be king. See for yourself. Identical builds on each ship for comparison, and this doesn't even go into the soft considerations, like hardpoint position and variety, which are in favour of the alliance ships too and matter more than pure stats.

and...

These are all built to an exact and identical outfitting philosophy optimal for pve and pvp. The weapons are unengineered gimballed frag cannons in every slot for potential dps comparison purposes, not because they would be an optimal choice. I did find it interesting that the base armor on the CD ships is about 1% higher than on the alliance ships, while the hardness is better on both alliance ships. Interesting.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

We are what we are

I'm sorry man, I just can't agree that they are 'still' fine ships. They are firmly the worst medium combat ships of all. FAS used to be king. See for yourself. Identical builds on each ship for comparison, and this doesn't even go into the soft considerations, like hardpoint position and variety, which are in favour of the alliance ships too and matter more than pure stats.

View attachment 435639
View attachment 435640
and...
View attachment 435641
View attachment 435643
These are all built to an exact and identical outfitting philosophy optimal for pve and pvp. The weapons are unengineered gimballed frag cannons in every slot for potential dps comparison purposes, not because they would be an optimal choice. I did find it interesting that the base armor on the CD ships is about 1% higher than on the alliance ships, while the hardness is better on both alliance ships. Interesting.

Well, there's a problem, outfitting different ships identically. Different ships have different strengths and weaknesses. The FAS doesn't need amazing shields for example because it can remain out of the line of fire against most targets allowing more pips in WEP and thus a hungrier weapon loadout. The gunship is the only one out of those you list with a SLF bay which makes a difference.

Sure, maybe you've mothballed the FAS feeling its no longer worth flying, I most definitely haven't, because i still think its a quality ship.

FAS used to be king

Again, nothing has changed with the FAS, it hasn't been nerfed. Its still the same ship it was all along, a great medium combat ship.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

A type 7 for cargo? You mad bro? Its for exploration! (No joke, i once went exploring in a Type 7).

Absolutely, there's a whole load of gameplay to get out of playing around with the cheap medium ships.

I can understand the thinking with this thread though. With FDev saying they're done with mediums, at least for now, there's got to be plenty of players who'd queue up for a new Vulture or Corvette.

Plus that would hopefully mean a Saud Kruger Narwhal would be coming soon, to round off all the manufacturers.

 

[Aashenfox]

Well, there's a problem, outfitting different ships identically. Different ships have different strengths and weaknesses. The FAS doesn't need amazing shields for example because it can remain out of the line of fire against most targets allowing more pips in WEP and thus a hungrier weapon loadout. The gunship is the only one out of those you list with a SLF bay which makes a difference.

Sure, maybe you've mothballed the FAS feeling its no longer worth flying, I most definitely haven't, because i still think its a quality ship.



Again, nothing has changed with the FAS, it hasn't been nerfed. Its still the same ship it was all along, a great medium combat ship.

Nah, this is an optimal build for all of these ships (except weapon choice and placement as mentioned), they all have the same strengths and weaknesses, they are all best operated as hybrids. The only changes I might make in some circumstances is that the FGS is slightly more flexible when it comes to going for a bank strategy with the extra size 6 internal, but that's it, these are optimal builds for combat.

And remember, we're comparing them here to the NEXT worst combat ships, the alliance ships. We haven't even begun to talk about the Corsair, the Python 1, the Python 2, the FDL, the Mamba, the Mandalay (ok maybe that's a stretch ), the Kraits, which are ALL objectively better in combat than the Alliance ships, let alone the CD ships.

Why do you insist on insisting that I don't have a point, I can't get my mind around it, honestly. I'm not asking for them to be changed or removed from the game, I'm just asking for some love for Core Dynamics and pointing out the reasons why. You can say 'I still love my FAS' by all means, but pretending these ships are fine in the combat meta is...just odd. Anyway, I won't disagree again, I too love my CD ships, which is why I want to see what FD can do with the next generation.

 

[Aashenfox]

Absolutely, there's a whole load of gameplay to get out of playing around with the cheap medium ships.

I can understand the thinking with this thread though. With FDev saying they're done with mediums, at least for now, there's got to be plenty of players who'd queue up for a new Vulture or Corvette.

Plus that would hopefully mean a Saud Kruger Narwhal would be coming soon, to round off all the manufacturers.

Yeh, I'd be happy with a FAS mk2 and a Vulture mk2, they're the important ones, the funship is a novelty with it's capital ship speed and firepower, I'll give it a pass for hilarity reasons.

I actually don't think a corvette mk2 is needed, but I'll take one! I like the sound of the narwhal, it better have a really long antenna on the front

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Absolutely, there's a whole load of gameplay to get out of playing around with the cheap medium ships.

I can understand the thinking with this thread though. With FDev saying they're done with mediums, at least for now, there's got to be plenty of players who'd queue up for a new Vulture or Corvette.

Plus that would hopefully mean a Saud Kruger Narwhal would be coming soon, to round off all the manufacturers.

Pretty sure this is the year of large ships, so a Corvette Mk2 is a possibility. We've had a trader, so i expect at least one combat ship and one exploration ship.... Corvette Mk2 and... Imperial Explorer?

 

[Three Stars]

And there’s the problem. “Fine in the meta”.

Believe it or not, there are people who fly, design, enjoy, tinker with ships who do not give a flying fig about the meta. The PvP mentality is very narrow, very insular, and sets its self worth by how close someone can get to a very specific method of flying and fighting.

There’s more to being “objectively better” in combat than sizes of modules or a list of identical weapons, especially when things like hardpoint placement and weapon type suitability can be soooooo very different between ships. This isn’t even getting into a pilot’s individual preferences. Some people fly certain ships better than others.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Nah, this is an optimal build for all of these ships (except weapon choice and placement as mentioned), they all have the same strengths and weaknesses, they are all best operated as hybrids. The only changes I might make in some circumstances is that the FGS is slightly more flexible when it comes to going for a bank strategy with the extra size 6 internal, but that's it, these are optimal builds for combat.

And remember, we're comparing them here to the NEXT worst combat ships, the alliance ships. We haven't even begun to talk about the Corsair, the Python 1, the Python 2, the FDL, the Mamba, the Mandalay (ok maybe that's a stretch ), the Kraits, which are ALL objectively better in combat than the Alliance ships, let alone the CD ships.

Why do you insist on insisting that I don't have a point, I can't get my mind around it, honestly. I'm not asking for them to be changed or removed from the game, I'm just asking for some love for Core Dynamics and pointing out the reasons why. You can say 'I still love my FAS' by all means, but pretending these ships are fine in the combat meta is...just odd. Anyway, I won't disagree again, I too love my CD ships, which is why I want to see what FD can do with the next generation.

I feel like you obsess too much over stats and "best". There's plenty of quality and viable combat ships, the Fed and Alliance ships among them.

Sure, more CD ships might be nice, but i don't particularly care about the manufacturer of the new ships, mainly just their capabilities.

Why do you insist on insisting that I don't have a point

You have your opinion, I have mine. I'm debating the difference in opinions.

I am puzzled by how you seem to think ships have got worse when they haven't been nerfed, just because other ships were introduced.

but pretending these ships are fine in the combat meta is

Oh, we are talking meta now? I thought we were talking about viability.

Well, if talking about meta, might as well never fly anything but a Python Mk2 as a medium combat ship.

 

[Aashenfox]

Pretty sure this is the year of large ships, so a Corvette Mk2 is a possibility. We've had a trader, so i expect at least one combat ship and one exploration ship.... Corvette Mk2 and... Imperial Explorer?

Imagine the money they could make from Vulture and FAS mk2s though, let's hope adding a couple more medium ships won't break the dev team or their timeline. I'd love to see more variety in large combat ships too and yes, they did say that there would be more of a focus on large ships, which is fair enough, we've had a few, but Core Dynamics has been sorely left out Like I say I don't really think a corvette mk2 is needed, the corvette is CD's most viable ship currently. I'd like to see lakon or zorgon's take on a destroyer