New ship: Panther Clipper

[[VR] Mad Mike]

They can't do that, though, there would be too many complaints about individual's wish lists not being met, and why did they introduce X when we really wanted Y?
So many calls for space legs, then when they arrived they weren't what was meant by the demand...
There are many suggestions made here by individuals that consider their ideas would improve the game for alll...

i would argue that Elite doesnt really have space legs yet. OK we can walk in orbital platfroms which technically is in space, but mechanically its not different than on a planet other than we cant jump.
space legs would surely be EVA which assuming FD have an ounce of common sense would include activities to go with them such as boarding derelict ships and either scavaging from them or repairing and rebooting them, or investigating shut down space stations etc etc.

that said.... i dont really care what content we get, so long as it is delivered in a semi decent state. Some people use Ody as a reason why FD should not produce more paid content... presumably because we are ingrates who dont know good game content if it hit us in the face.............. I would say the backlash was warranted because Ody launched in a disgraceful mess....... yes they turned it round somewhat since launch, it is much better now than it was, but it is still incredibly clunky with very limited game mechanics and the AI is objectively terrible (those in solo cant even get to see other SRVs milling around)............ also Ody has had barely any new Ody related content since launch...... so the argument that it does not sell that well so FD do not work on it sounds a little like a chicken and egg scenario to me.

If you build it, they will come!. (maybe )

 

[kofeyh]

And that is a "bad thing", the game should have remained static, as far as assets were involved, the day after it was released, and only some player's "dreams.txt" fulfilled instead.

That is not a thing. Indeed, ask the console community how much they enjoy their static existence. It would suit so few, as to make it financially non-viable. And Frontier was never going to fulfill all the dreams. There is simply not enough resourcing and time to do so.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

As I mentioned, lots of ideas from forumites that consider they can improve the game for everyone...

FD dont need to listen to forumites.... just themselves!. FD already roadmapped a huge amount of content for the game which isnt in it. I do not buy that that content no longer fits into the game... perhaps a few bits and bobs no longer do and would need to be rethought, but the principle game plan they had was fairly bullet proof imo

so I would be happy if they ignore you, ignore me, ignore everyone............. except their own initial roadmap. Once that is fleshed out then maybe they can ask the audience for ideas.

Of course i have my own wishes and dreams and i would happily chat about them........... but i dont expect them. What i did expect was post launch them to continutally work towards their OWN advertised plans because that was what they told us they would do.

 

[Darth Ender]

An example of an improvement.



On the contrary, I use medium and smalls ships quite often. Mandalay and Cobra Mk V take up quite a bit of my flight time. If I have learned anything about the community, it's that making assumptions about what the majority are doing, is very prone to error and bias.



Python Mk II replaces Python for combat, more than FDL. Which was the point; Mk II is the combat variant. Probably not the best example to pick.



The Panther Clipper was always going to be one of (if not the) biggest trade ships. It's entire purpose to exist is to cart cargo. It's been a constant request from the community literally since day one. It's been asked for, for 10+ years. To expect it to not carry any more than Cutter or Type-9, is to simply not be paying any attention at all.



The issue isn't new ships being a better fit for current mechanics, it's that legacy ships aren't. The newer ships fit the mechanics of the game better, because Frontier has learned, and adapter their designs as a result.

On the contrary, rather than attempt to unwind game development (which has seen an uptick in player count) a better valuable proposition for Frontier, is to bring the legacy ships up to the current standard. Most of the legacy ships are based on a game design from ten years ago, which is very far from where the game is today.

As I have said elsewhere, the new ships simply expose the legacy ships to sunlight. Much opportunity now exists for Frontier to uplift and improve those ships, and there are several ways to do so. I very much would like to see that happen.

You commented to a post about why the newer ships just replace the older ones and asked for examples...then made your post as if it contradicted that conclusion but then go on to say exactly that.

The point is that there is no room for all the ships to have a place they shine because there's only like 4 things you can do with ships and the game makes it very easy to overlap capability and all the newer ships are just plain better in their roles. Personal taste or preference is not being debated. I like some ships that aren't relevant anymore too, but if i care about getting something done efficiently, i'm not picking it. Most players will try and use the best tool for the job, and pretending like they all have a legitimate place in the tool box is wrong.. personal preference can outweigh that, sure...but that's like talking about your favorite color but using that to suggest all colors are equally important when we know 3 can do the job of millions.


You wanna upgrade the old ships so they merely overlap the new ones instead of get replaced by them...ok. But that only serves to kill fdev's monetary reason to create new ships. You haven't given players any reason then to want to pay for the new toy.

I'd rather see new ships be made for new roles...so they have function that doesn't overlap. Then we can reduce stat creep..which hopefully avoids replacing older ships and further unbalancing the economy of the existing roles.

 

[kofeyh]

You commented to a post about why the newer ships just replace the older ones and asked for examples...then made your post as if it contradicted that conclusion but then go on to say exactly that.

I'm not the one folding myself in half to argue the old ships were fine and the new ships are bad but also why aren't there more ways to use ships (which would require development for both).

The point is that there is no room for all the ships to have a place they shine because there's only like 4 things you can do with ships and the game makes it very easy to overlap capability and all the newer ships are just plain better in their roles.

I hate to say this, but that's the game in a nutshell. It is an open sandbox, yes. But much of the mechanics involve shoot, loot, scanning and fetch or some combination of all three. Adding more is a great idea, but then the ships would need to inhabit those additional features. Which means change. So which is it?

You wanna upgrade the old ships so they merely overlap the new ones instead of get replaced by them...ok. But that only serves to kill fdev's monetary reason to create new ships. You haven't given players any reason then to want to pay for the new toy.

I want to see them overlap. Yes. That is what I would encourage Frontier to do. Give legacy ships a way to 'fit' into the game world they now inhabit, some 10 years later. They can do so without being silly, or cannibalising Arx sales.

One cannot argue for further ways for ships to 'have a place to shine' whilst also arguing that ships should be based on a 10 year old approach and designs that do not fit well into the current game. They are mutually exclusive.

The CG we have at present, will see modules that benefit both new and existing ships, which is a great start.

 

[Rat Catcher]

There never is pleasing everyone. Neither does every feature have to please everyone

Of course not, any more than 3 people together wouldn't be able to agree what time is lunch.
But, even with my being 'new' to the forum compared to some, nothing FD has done, or introduced, is the right thing, according to the individual's concerned, because it favours others with interestes other than their own... Yet this is supposed to be a multiplayer game, and no group favoured, for balance or something, over any other...

space legs would surely be

Thanks for confirming my comment. (not sarcasm)
With just how diverse players, and their game wants, is, nothing is going to match their imagination.
Do you reacll the disappointment on the launch of EDO, by some (and the outrage), because it didn't have interiors, even though such was never, ever, mentioned in the hype leading up to its launch?

so I would be happy if they ignore you, ignore me, ignore everyone

That's both of us in complete agreement!

They should follow their own plans (sorry I can't agree conclusively with the kickstart ideas, I suspect the grand ideas were just that) and inspiration on 'improving' the game.

And, of course, expect complaints from a few that whatever they add is entirely wrong. Look at the fuss over the PC II, allegedly the ship that has been clamoured for since the game launched, it hasn't met those dreams, and is P2W because it is overpowered...

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Thanks for confirming my comment. (not sarcasm)

Note i did follow that up with ultimately i dont care specifics, i just wanted a decent quality DLC (mechanically as well as "fairly" functionally).

Ody at launch was objectively lacking one of the above and arguably both....... it was a dumpster fire and you only get to make a good 1st impression once.... and a lot of people refuse to go back and reevaluate once they made their mind up........ which doesnt affect me personally but am sure hurt FDs bottom line as rightly or wrongly a lot of people do go on steam reviews before buying a game or DLC

Ody has also had very little in the way of additions... its mostly been on the base gave giving little incentive to upgrade............ But until most everyone has upgraded Ody will continue to feel like a bolt on rather than woven properly into the game (imo of course)

anyway sorry.... this clipper has gone way off course now!.

Back on topic...
The panther clipper i think looks a tidy ship so no complaints from me. Its size seems perfect to me (in terms of internals).. indeed i believe it was you who moaned about that not me I cant be sure however as i have not flown it yet.

also it isnt P2W because of its stats... and i think you know most people complaining about P2W is not about the ship itself.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Ody at launch was objectively lacking one of the above and arguably both....... it was a dumpster fire

At launch it was dreadful, performance hit an all-time low! (It has improved much since) But, what we got in terms of content was precisely what we'd been shown.

Its size seems perfect to me (in terms of internals).. indeed i believe it was you who moaned about that not me I cant be sure however as i have not flown it yet.

I'm still belating about its capacity...
It is a fun ship to fly though - a bit fragile when lithobraking on a 0.6g body in FA-Off and travelling a sniff under 500 m/s - 60 million rebuy was hilarious!

 

[Shir]

There will always be a million ideas to improve the game, bugs, problems, etc. But Elite is clearly on the move again, being ships or other updates, and that's a good thing.

Personally I'm a very long time player, even played the original elite back in the days and wished for years there was a modern version. There are so many things to do in game that I don't mind waiting a few months to get the new ships. Still buy them just for financial support for a game I enjoy playing (the only one I play).

 

[Jumpin' Jack Flash]

Hi

.... - 60 million rebuy was hilarious!

You Wuz robbed!
Contact 'Wild Deer Corporation' they do a fully comprehensive insurance policy, and they can also MOT your Panther (A speciality of ours ) with a slight discount if you take out their 'Interstellar' no questions asked policy terms at the same time.*.
Just dock at the station and ask for 'Dusty' ...I've just insured my fully armed 'Killer Klipper' which has a generous 48 million re-buy cost, it also comes with a lifetime warranty on Drives, Weapons and other critical ship components, they don't charge for parts but there is a slight maintenance cost on some items. (just remember to read the small print supplied on the document).

*Subject to status.

Jack

 

[GraXXoR]

I'm not the one folding myself in half to argue the old ships were fine and the new ships are bad but also why aren't there more ways to use ships (which would require development for both).



I hate to say this, but that's the game in a nutshell. It is an open sandbox, yes. But much of the mechanics involve shoot, loot, scanning and fetch or some combination of all three. Adding more is a great idea, but then the ships would need to inhabit those additional features. Which means change. So which is it?



I want to see them overlap. Yes. That is what I would encourage Frontier to do. Give legacy ships a way to 'fit' into the game world they now inhabit, some 10 years later. They can do so without being silly, or cannibalising Arx sales.

One cannot argue for further ways for ships to 'have a place to shine' whilst also arguing that ships should be based on a 10 year old approach and designs that do not fit well into the current game. They are mutually exclusive.

The CG we have at present, will see modules that benefit both new and existing ships, which is a great start.

I don’t want to get bogged down by specifics, but someone pointed out the idea of an experimental engineering for FSD that allows older ships to gain (most of) the benefits of SCO drives that modern ships get.

That would go a long way to offsetting the differences.

And if they had, say, one more class 1 slot added, they would pretty much bring them closer to the modern standards.

But alas, we’re getting bogged down by specifics when we’d do well to keep our eye on the ball. Which is the Panther Clipper and more accurately how it was released for ARX.

 

[kofeyh]

I don’t want to get bogged down by specifics, but someone pointed out the idea of an experimental engineering for FSD that allows older ships to gain (most of) the benefits of SCO drives that modern ships get.

That would go a long way to offsetting the differences.

And if they had, say, one more class 1 slot added, they would pretty much bring them closer to the modern standards.

But alas, we’re getting bogged down by specifics when we’d do well to keep our eye on the ball. Which is the Panther Clipper and more accurately how it was released for ARX.

All good points.

 

[Charger]

This debate is eternal. Some want only an open game. Some are satisfied with a single player. Some are happy with the Imperial Cutter, and some are happy with the Hauler. You can argue for a long time, but the point is lost. You can argue for a long time, but the point is lost. Of course, you want a development that will bring maximum joy to each player. But for now, this is impossible. Based on this, we are either happy that Elite continues, or upset that the continuation does not please us.

 

[Stealthie]

I don’t want to get bogged down by specifics, but someone pointed out the idea of an experimental engineering for FSD that allows older ships to gain (most of) the benefits of SCO drives that modern ships get.

That would go a long way to offsetting the differences.

And if they had, say, one more class 1 slot added, they would pretty much bring them closer to the modern standards.

But alas, we’re getting bogged down by specifics when we’d do well to keep our eye on the ball. Which is the Panther Clipper and more accurately how it was released for ARX.

You know how, years ago, FDev went with the whole "magnetic boots" thing, instead of saying Gravity Plating exists in the ED universe, leading to all sorts of unintentional nonsense, with platforms and outposts that, apparently, have magnetic chairs and tables, with magnetic plates sitting on them so people can eat magnetic food with magnetic knives and forks, while drinking a magnetic beer from a magnetic glass and browsing their magnetic iPad (while there's magnetic trash lying on the floor)?

I believe there's been similar mutterings with regard to SCO-compatibility, where FDev have said that a ship needs to be built from scratch with SCO-compatibility in mind, and that's why SCO drives won't work properly with pre-existing ships.

That's kind of disappointing because, if FDev decide to stick to that idea as dogmatically as they stuck to "magnetic boots" (no pun intended), it means we're never going to get older ships refitted for SCO-compatibility.

Shame really.
I mean, regardless of SCO, all the new ships are bloody good.
They don't need SCO as a selling point.

FDev could even make it a "thing", where SCO-compatibility is integrated with hull armor, thus you could scoot across to Selene Jean and get G1 to G5 SCO compatibility mod's done to make an old ship increasingly compatible with SCO.
Players would have to decide whether to abandon existing hull armor mod's and replace them with the SCO mod.
If you had, say, an FdL or Corvette, you'd probably stick with a combat armor mod' and forego SCO compatibility whereas, if it was an exploration or cargo ship, you might decide SCO compatibility is more useful than a bit of extra integrity.

Personally, I reckon that if FDev do plan on making older ships compatible with SCO it'll only happen after they're done releasing Arx ships for a while.
Maybe next year?

 

[GraXXoR]

You know how, years ago, FDev went with the whole "magnetic boots" thing, instead of saying Gravity Plating exists in the ED universe, leading to all sorts of unintentional nonsense, with platforms and outposts that, apparently, have magnetic chairs and tables, with magnetic plates sitting on them so people can eat magnetic food with magnetic knives and forks, while drinking a magnetic beer from a magnetic glass and browsing their magnetic iPad (while there's magnetic trash lying on the floor)?

I believe there's been similar mutterings with regard to SCO-compatibility, where FDev have said that a ship needs to be built from scratch with SCO-compatibility in mind, and that's why SCO drives won't work properly with pre-existing ships.

That's kind of disappointing because, if FDev decide to stick to that idea as dogmatically as they stuck to "magnetic boots" (no pun intended), it means we're never going to get older ships refitted for SCO-compatibility.

Shame really.
I mean, regardless of SCO, all the new ships are bloody good.
They don't need SCO as a selling point.

FDev could even make it a "thing", where SCO-compatibility is integrated with hull armor, thus you could scoot across to Selene Jean and get G1 to G5 SCO compatibility mod's done to make an old ship increasingly compatible with SCO.
Players would have to decide whether to abandon existing hull armor mod's and replace them with the SCO mod.
If you had, say, an FdL or Corvette, you'd probably stick with a combat armor mod' and forego SCO compatibility whereas, if it was an exploration or cargo ship, you might decide SCO compatibility is more useful than a bit of extra integrity.

Personally, I reckon that if FDev do plan on making older ships compatible with SCO it'll only happen after they're done releasing Arx ships for a while.
Maybe next year?

I don’t think they’ll do anything to improve the old ships either… unfortunately.

They’ve got to keep the remains of their company afloat so they’re going to milk this proven popular paid ship approach until people get board of “yet another new ship!??!?”
But before, that, though, they might take the SC approach of releasing more and more powerful ships as the “milk” starts to dry up.

Then they’ll find another thing to microtransact.

Paid individual ship interiors, anyone? we wanted them, right? But how much did we REALLY want them?

Small ships, 10,030 ARX each
Medium ships, 15,060 ARX each
Large ships, 20,090 ARX each

I wouldn’t be surprised if they do offer the ships one by one…

—edited for shoddy autocorrect

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

i really hope not........ much better to bundle up as a paid expansion imo.... even if not all released at the same time
(nowt to do with wanting something from my LEP.... no sir! )

 

[Rat Catcher]

Paid individual ship interiors, anyone? we wanted them, right? But how much did we REALLY want them?

Small ships, 10,030 ARX each
Medium ships, 15,060 ARX each
Large ships, 20,090 ARX each

I wouldn’t be surprised if they do offer the ships one by one…

They can even pander to other vanities by offering Science modules, engineering, repair modules, etc. in these individual interiors - for more Arghs, naturally!
If the first offering was to the exploration community, they could judge reaction from that. (as that is the largest community that often ask for 'special stuff' for their play choice!)
Should it pancake, all that is lost is the development cost for an interior or two and some code for Science etc. Should have been financed by previous 'ships for Arx' transactions to make some sense.

 

[Brrokk]

I don’t think they’ll do anything to improve the old ships either… unfortunately.

They’ve got to keep the remains of their company afloat so they’re going to milk this proven popular paid ship approach until people get board of “yet another new ship!??!?”
But before, that, though, they might take the SC approach of releasing more and more powerful ships as the “milk” starts to dry up.

Then they’ll find another thing to microtransact.

Paid individual ship interiors, anyone? we wanted them, right? But how much did we REALLY want them?

Small ships, 10,030 ARX each
Medium ships, 15,060 ARX each
Large ships, 20,090 ARX each

I wouldn’t be surprised if they do offer the ships one by one…

—edited for shoddy autocorrect

Hmm, then the people who only want interiors so that they can board other players' ships will be complaining about "people hiding in their ships".

 

[Dougie]

Why is the Panther boost sound so naff? Huge ship should have huge noise (as per the Cutter).

 

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

They can even pander to other vanities by offering Science modules, engineering, repair modules, etc. in these individual interiors - for more Arghs, naturally!

I laughed at that a lot harder than I probably should, heh.