Is Exploration too easy? Galactic center reached already before launch

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it has been a great test. but its not exploration. those pioneers didn't have maps to tell them what is in between A & B.... or is it that we don't have to much to look for yet ? other than to get from A to B via C. discovering star types and stations that sell the same selection from a large list simply doesn't cut it.
 
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exploration involves not knowing what is around the corner. whilst we can see the star in game I think exploration should be more heavily dependant on the discover mechanics with a more in depth or defined game mechanic itself.(more than what it is at present).
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. what does not make much sense is opening a map to go and discover something that has already been mapped, hence its MAPPED and given character via known star types etc. I forgive the astronomical knowledge implication here but don't extend it so far for in game gameplay. Not so un-discovered theoretically.
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.Let us "NOT" know what is out there at all beyond the already mapped game unverse . so all that non mapped or discovered areas are blank and not there until the game mechanic has been routinely played to manifest it as mapped.

a good idea would be for gameplay purposes to let users name star systems themselves. and only named and discovered areas get place on the map. that would be a great mechanic and give real meaning to buying the system data. not to forget to mention the rewards back from actual users paying for the info to make their route easier is wonderful too. Elite has a whole universe of missed opportunities gameplay wise. many of which exists in that DDA. the practical notion of what we have at launch is incomplete. rushed release at the end of the day. in the morning I hope its all there. and lest not forget it is testing phase apparently. but this is my last bastion of hope for it to be released with a completely different financial attainment curve at the core of the gameplay.
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It is to easy.

+1. i would love it.

also have to agree on the edited part. sadly.
 
Travelling direct to the centre is not exploration in the same manner that sailing around the world non-stop without touching land is also not exploration. It's just achieving a limited goal.
 
what was planned:
In Elite: Dangerous explorers are players who travel out into undiscovered areas of the galaxy, hoping to find previously undiscovered systems and locations. Explorers scan and record data wherever they go, and can sell that data on to various interested authorities. Explorers can also sell on data they have discovered to other players, allowing them to sell the co-ordinates of a valuable find to the highest bidder, or keep their discoveries to exploit for themselves.
Explorer players must discover different points of interest using different methods

  • Explorer players’ main method of making money is through selling details of points of interest they discover
    • Points of interest players can discover include:
      • Star Systems
      • Dark Systems (systems without a star, but other features)
      • Stars
      • Planets
      • Asteroids, comets
      • Moons
      • Structures
      • Other Phenomena
    • These Discovered locations may include:
      • Secret Locations
      • Resources
      • Events/Missions (time limited and permenant)
      • Beauty spots (usually attached to other entities)
      • Messages/Beacons
  • Players explore to build up the details on their galaxy map
    • When starting a new commander the player will have some details on their galaxy map
      • This will allow the player to travel to any locations they have map data to, without having to explore
    • Players can buy map data from authorities to expand their ships computers library of maps
      • New map data will allow the player to travel to new locations without needing to explore
      • Map data that is bought from authorities is not to the highest level of detail and can be improved with player gathered data
      • Map data includes hyperspace routes to systems and major points of interest in that system
  • Players can use scanning equipment and probes to detect systems and record new hyperspace routes
    • Scanners are used to detect any nearby systems that are within the players jump range
      • Scanners will give the player a vague indication of the direction of a system
      • High end scanners can give the player a better details of the system they have detected (is it a star, an asteroid field etc.)
    • Players can then launch hyperspace probes that will give the player more information on the part of space they are looking at
      • Probes will give the player heat-map style data to help guide the player to the correct co-ordinates for a jump
      • Different probe ammo can provide different information, or react based on objects in the target system
    • Using the data they have gathered the player must align their ship as best they can with the target system and activate the hyperdrive to jump to the system
      • The player’s ship records data of any successful jumps the player makes
      • The pilots federation will always pay players for the first successful jump they make using the exploration method (If the player bought the map data for the jump they cannot sell the data), even if the player is not the first person ever to make the jump (the pilots federation use the data to improve their telemetry and keep maps up to date)
      • If the player is the first person to ever make the journey they receive a bonus for discovering the hyperspace route
      • The closer the player lines up their jump to the target system, the higher quality the data the players ship will gather on the jump. Higher quality data is worth more money when sold to authorities
    • If a player’s jump is not accurate enough they may suffer a miss jump
      • Longer distance jumps require a higher level of accuracy
      • A systems contents may also affect how accurate a players jump must be to avoid mis-jumping



  • Players use scanners to detect points of interest within systems
    • The player’s scanners detect various points of interest around the player
      • It takes time for players scanners to detect points of interest
      • Player’s proximity to a point of interest can affect the time it takes to detect
      • Players ship facing can affect the time it takes to detect a point of interest (e.g. pointing my ship at a undiscovered point of interest will allow me to scan it faster)
    • Different types of points of interest can require different player actions to detect
      • For example to detect a mineral rich formation of asteroids the player must launch probes around an asteroid field
      • The probes provide a cross section from their perspective of the asteroid field they’re launched at
        • Each additional probe the player uses provides more details on the target asteroid field
      • The player uses their scanner to view the data from the probes, and must tag the areas with the highest concentration of minerals in the field
      • Once this process is complete the point of interest is completed
        • The quality of the players scan of the area affects the value of the data
        • The quality of the player’s scan can affect the amount and type of materials found in the asteroids


Players can sell information they have gathered to other players as well as authorities. This is done through a trade interface similar to the trade goods trading interface. Players can sell hyperspace routes from their location to any single system they have explored to. The purchasing player then offers a price (this can be 0 if it is a gift), and if both players are satisfied they agree to the trade. Players can also trade in system data including locations of points of interest using the same method.
I’d like to gauge player interest in a community driven photography contest, which would be another way of explorers earning money.

  • Players can take photographs (essentially screenshots) from their view ports (with and without cockpit and GUI etc)
    • Player photographs can be submitted to a regular photography contest
      • Players can only submit one photograph each
    • Players can vote on a selection of the best photographs
    • The player(s) who get the most votes wins the competition
      • The winner gets a (in game) cash prize (plus prizes for 2nd 3rd most weird etc.)
      • The photograph (and other user submissions) will be used in appropriate places in the game (billboards, news papers, etc.)


Players who decide to go exploring are jumping into the unknown, and without high end kit, often with little to no knowledge of the dangers they are jumping in to. Alongside the risk of encountering hostility when jumping to an unknown system, explorers scanners attract a lot of attention, generating lots of heat. Explorer ships will need to be prepared to face hostile activity when exploring, and players need to be ready to fight for their claims or run for their lives.

Issues
Will exploration remain interesting and profitable long term?
What other things can players discover in a system that have value to sell?
What could the scanning process be for those discoverables?
Will players risk scanning for hyperspace routes or just buy data?
what we got:
fly around and point at stuff post about it on forum
 
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it has been a great test. but its not exploration. those pioneers didn't have maps to tell them what is in between A & B.... or is it that we don't have to much to look for yet ? other than to get from A to B via C. discovering star types and stations that sell the same selection from a large list simply doesn't cut it.

i once imagined we have to dig our way forward. sometimes have to wait for the Faction, we feed the information, to build stations on our trail, so that we could reach just a little bit further.
 
anyone tried exploring as such in game without any exploration scanners installed ? a very very different situation you find yourself in... not knowing or seeing any orbital body information. that's exploration. and that is the amazing thing, finding and sussing out where that astral body is on a number of levels is very very interesting and enjoyable for a real wanabe explorer.
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Funny that! we simply have a game mechanic to bypass actual exploration and when its not being used you find yourself actually exploring like explorers do. by going there and looking without any aids hints or tips other than what we perceive to lead us to our destination. Elite in `84 wouldn't have made it this easy for you. the order of the day behind every game is ease of accessibility together with spoon fed entertainment unfortunately.
 
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what was planned:

what we got:

i'd say it's a bit more, even if just for the fact it's an accurate map of the galaxy we can play in

but considering the mechanics, i can't argue, the DDF sounded so much better, especially the hyper-route part

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anyone tried exploring as such in game without any exploration scanners installed ? a very very different situation you find yourself in... not knowing or seeing any orbital body information. that's exploration. and that is the amazing thing, finding and sussing out where that astral body is on a number of levels is very very interesting and enjoyable for a real wanabe explorer.
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Funny that! we simply have a game mechanic to bypass actual exploration and when its not being used you find yourself actually exploring like explorers do. by going there and looking without any aids hints or tips other than what we perceive to lead us to our destination. Elite in `84 wouldn't have made it this easy for you. the order of the day behind every game is ease of accessibility together with spoon fed entertainment.

i kinda like my basic scanner for it's limited range and not sure if i ever want to upgrade :)
just love the moments flying around spotting that little point moving on the background..

i would also like some sort of sensors, that give you hints, you'd have to combine and interpret to find celestial objects and other hidden stuff.
 
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To reach the galactic centre from Aulin/ Sol means 25900 LY BUT you cannot fly in a straight line. As someone who has made more than 10K LY down that route here are some numbers....

- Every Jump means to search the next best star to jump to, that kind of maximizes distance towards your goal.
- Often enough the dumb NPC interdictions get you even in DEEEEEEEP Space annoying and potentially dangerous if one misses something
- heat damage from fuel scoop errors...in thousands of jumps it will happen (5% error)
- being carefull to not stray to much left, right, upwards or downwards over time, especially if you get to far above or beyond the galactic plane..you might run into dead ends between spiral arms.

Oh and well you do NOTHING else than that in quick succession and endless hours....i have stopped time and i make between 400-500ly per HOUR this means it is 50 - 60 HOURS realtime, real life, doing nothing but JUMP - MAP - JUMP - EVADE - JUMP - REFUEL and repeat all over. If anyone thinks this is too easy...they should do it first before commenting about things they hardly know anything about ,)
 
So, in this persistent universe that the Devs are creating, will this mean that systems that are newly found/explored etc, will they eventually be settled by one of the factions, stations built etc. or will they just remain discoveredsatars/systems?

My original thoughts on exploration was that we'd only be able to go out so far due to wear and tear or damage to our ship etc before we'd have to turn back for repairs, sell data etc. once that data had been sold, we'd then be able to go a little further out because those newly discovered systems would then be settled. I really hope that exploration gets looked at again. I know that going from point A to point B isn't really exploring per se, however, i do still think that reaching the galactic core in a week is a little bit of a let down to me personally.

I really took an interest in what the First Great Expedition was doing, i still will but the gloss has been taken off of it a bit.
 
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i kinda like my basic scanner for it's limited range and not sure if i ever want to upgrade :)
just love the moments flying around spotting that little point moving on the background..

i would also like some sort of sensors, that give you hints, you'd have to combine and interpret to find celestial objects and other hidden stuff.


yep ! I agree. everything is balanced to make it easy, and way overboard they have went with the "consider every player" concept game developers in search of sales hold so close to their hearts. so I end my considerations with elite with relying on the fact that if at release its exactly the same as it is presented now then I am not going to be too interested to maintain using it for long. Coders don't design good games and there is to much feeling and flavour in elite of this being the case. great code though!
 
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I think some of you have missed an important truth here. One person has reached the galactic core and we are wondering if exploration is too easy, but how many have started out to do this and have either given up or failed. Most people who fail will not be posting about it. Just cause one person makes it does not make it easy, many people have climbed Mount Everest but I doubt many of us are in a hurry to give it a try. Now if tomorrow 100 people posted that they had made it to the core, then I would have concerns about exploration, but until then, I will recognise the achievement and not worry that this means the game is broken in some way.
 
very true. Jedirogue. I have decided! I am simply never going to go to the one point everyone wants to go to. why you may ask? Because everyone`s been there theoretically. I just hope there is very good reason to go elsewhere when it comes to travelling intergalactic style. 1500 per ton trade profit doesn't cut it at the moment or super duper gun addons.
 
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To reach the galactic centre from Aulin/ Sol means 25900 LY BUT you cannot fly in a straight line. As someone who has made more than 10K LY down that route here are some numbers....

- Every Jump means to search the next best star to jump to, that kind of maximizes distance towards your goal.
- Often enough the dumb NPC interdictions get you even in DEEEEEEEP Space annoying and potentially dangerous if one misses something
- heat damage from fuel scoop errors...in thousands of jumps it will happen (5% error)
- being carefull to not stray to much left, right, upwards or downwards over time, especially if you get to far above or beyond the galactic plane..you might run into dead ends between spiral arms.

Oh and well you do NOTHING else than that in quick succession and endless hours....i have stopped time and i make between 400-500ly per HOUR this means it is 50 - 60 HOURS realtime, real life, doing nothing but JUMP - MAP - JUMP - EVADE - JUMP - REFUEL and repeat all over. If anyone thinks this is too easy...they should do it first before commenting about things they hardly know anything about ,)

thanks for the insight. i have done only few hundred ly of exploration myself

anyway i was raising a question. if you say it's good as it is, that's ok with me.

so, do you think it is well balanced and the mechanics have enoug depth and create the right sense of exploration and suspense?
 
I think some of you have missed an important truth here. One person has reached the galactic core and we are wondering if exploration is too easy, but how many have started out to do this and have either given up or failed. Most people who fail will not be posting about it. Just cause one person makes it does not make it easy, many people have climbed Mount Everest but I doubt many of us are in a hurry to give it a try. Now if tomorrow 100 people posted that they had made it to the core, then I would have concerns about exploration, but until then, I will recognise the achievement and not worry that this means the game is broken in some way.

yes. i totally respect the achievement. and i never said the game is in any way broken.
maybe the title should have been about "depth & balance" and not if "too easy"

as said in the OP, i'm asking myself those question and i thought i'll get some input from other perspectives on the forums :)
 
You ask in your OP whether exploration needs to be changed in some way, presumably to make it harder? I don't think it needs to be tweaked. In essence, exploration is a combination of patience, perseverance and maybe some luck thrown in for good measure. It's not necessarily a skill to be practised so that you are good at it like combat. Instead you point in a direction and hit the jump button. It just takes a long time to get to the really distant places, and you may end up having to backtrack a while if you find you have no way of jumping on further as your drive won't allow you. That's where some luck comes in handy!
 
Players can use scanning equipment and probes to detect systems and record new hyperspace routes

  • Scanners are used to detect any nearby systems that are within the players jump range
    • Scanners will give the player a vague indication of the direction of a system
    • High end scanners can give the player a better details of the system they have detected (is it a star, an asteroid field etc.)

  • Players can then launch hyperspace probes that will give the player more information on the part of space they are looking at
    • Probes will give the player heat-map style data to help guide the player to the correct co-ordinates for a jump
    • Different probe ammo can provide different information, or react based on objects in the target system

  • Using the data they have gathered the player must align their ship as best they can with the target system and activate the hyperdrive to jump to the system
    • The player’s ship records data of any successful jumps the player makes
    • The pilots federation will always pay players for the first successful jump they make using the exploration method (If the player bought the map data for the jump they cannot sell the data), even if the player is not the first person ever to make the jump (the pilots federation use the data to improve their telemetry and keep maps up to date)
    • If the player is the first person to ever make the journey they receive a bonus for discovering the hyperspace route
    • The closer the player lines up their jump to the target system, the higher quality the data the players ship will gather on the jump. Higher quality data is worth more money when sold to authorities

  • If a player’s jump is not accurate enough they may suffer a miss jump
    • Longer distance jumps require a higher level of accuracy
    • A systems contents may also affect how accurate a players jump must be to avoid mis-jumping
 
The galactic core is an obvious point of interest. And by the post in the forum not easily reached. Because 1person made the 60hour effort to jump to an obvious point of interest by continuous jumping doesn't mean the exploration mechanic is broken.

He traversed a lot of systems. There is so much to explore. Getting to the other side outer edge of the galaxy in a straight line will take eve more hours.
 
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The galactic core is an obvious point of interest. And by the post in the forum not easily reached. Because 1person made the 60hour effort to jump to an obvious point of interest by continuous jumping doesn't mean the exploration mechanic is broken.
true, most of it is simply not in the game.
 
I think some of you have missed an important truth here. One person has reached the galactic core and we are wondering if exploration is too easy, but how many have started out to do this and have either given up or failed. Most people who fail will not be posting about it. Just cause one person makes it does not make it easy, many people have climbed Mount Everest but I doubt many of us are in a hurry to give it a try. Now if tomorrow 100 people posted that they had made it to the core, then I would have concerns about exploration, but until then, I will recognise the achievement and not worry that this means the game is broken in some way.

Those people failed because they rushed to the core in Sidwewinders, Haulers and whatnot. A Cobra made it. A Python or an Anaconda are almost guaranteed to make it, since:

-they can pack the most supplies (autorepair charges, dual scoops etc.)
-they are impervious to pirate interdictions, which are mostly smaller ships
-they can have the longest ranges

Exploration as it is is not difficult, just time-consuming. That's not the same. There is no sense of epic achievement, not even on the level when someone solos a group boss in other games. You just need time and patience and you're guaranteed success. You do not need to plan beyond the next few jumps, you do not need to cooperate, and the hazards of deep space exploration are reduced to heat from the stars you're refueling at.

Your systems never degrade from general use, wear&tear only damages your paint job...

...looking back at what groups such as the First Great Expedition planned and expected exploration to be like, what we have now is not only easy, it is laughable. Where are the supply issues? Refueling problems? Maintenance? The need to form expedition fleets? To be organized? No need for any of that.
 
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