I believe that was decision was made based on feedback from F16 pilots.
Hardware & Technical Best Joystick for absolute maneuverability
- Thread starter Peacemaker Thor
- Start date
I never use the presets for mine. Just saying. They are incredibly easy to set up. One of the things on Elite that actually works every time.
Yeah that's the big issue with the x65f: F16 pilots get plenty of training in force sensing before being let loose...something that isn't mentioned in the x65f manual!
Generally, people who own a Cougar/Warthog/x65f tend to have a much-loved backup stick. Buying one definitive stick is almost impossible, given the strengths and weaknesses of each stick on the market. Build quality was slightly better in the 90s and early 2000s though. I'd be very surprised if the failure rates between the Warthog and the newer Saitek sticks were very different, and I'm classifying stiction as a failure.
Moving directly from a Warthog to an x65f, you can tell that superficially the Warthog uses nicer materials. The stick in particular feels an entire class better. Taking the set up as a whole though, the x65f just makes so much more sense on the desk. It's got a smaller footprint, an optional twist rudder and a great elite-friendly throttle. It looks much more at home on a computer desk too. The stick and throttle have a classy stripped-back restrained sci fi vibe to them. Red Dwarf actually used the x65f as props...spot the x65 throttles in the picture below ;-)
View attachment 3189
Ultimately, the key part to any HOTAS is the throttle. Any stick can be added later.
What does the throttle do that the w button on a keyboard doesn't?
Not going to argue that warthog is better because I never tried to claim that and agree it is overpriced for what it is, if I was going to use an expensive set up I would flat out go fat black mamba and use a CH throttle or another stick period.
My recommendation to anyone looking for good stick to start out with is T-16000m because price and same hall sensors as warthog thus same accuracy for much much lower price which flat out beats x52 hotas.
I also pointed out saitek has issues with quality control, and that is not to say other stick can't have problems, but saitek are known for having this issue in general by hotas enthusiasts.
Being in a show or movies is also not a recommendation seeing as the x52 line was in some, like riddick, as well. Looks and flashiness and all that!
You can ch throttle and t16000m or dual t1600m and forget saitek.
Again not saying the 65f is a really bad stick per say but price and discontinued is not a good thing especially if you do have problems later on.
Anyhoot I think Peacemaker Thor has enough opinions and info to make a pretty good choice.
Better control, more functionality but like the sticks each have different pros and cons.
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So you weren't happy with your x65, CH, Saitek stuff or warthog when you owned them, then?
I'm rocking a X65f myself. I have to say it's one of the most intuitive sticks I've used (and I've had a couple). It does have a learning curve though, and a pretty big one since it's not a traditional gimbaling stick.
X52's IMO are the most economical sticks, but the sensors arnt really that good. TBH, i found it didnt really matter that much? People do great with them.
Luceferous has it about right. The X65f has some special requirements, specifically having to be mounted and completely immobile. And there is some training that has to go into it. I spent about 2 weeks working with it before I became highly proficient, but once I did... Omg it's like the ship itself is attached to my arm. The ship maneuvers at the slightest whim.
Unlike Luceferous however, I'll state my opinion that it's best to learn to cope with as little deadzone as possible, even zero. I set mine up with no deadzones and linear curves. Adjust the force strength settings to match whatever is comfortable to you, and just acknowledge the fact that for awhile you'll be putting WAY more force into the stick then you'll need (trying to push it past it's max "throw"), and your hand will likely get sore. I have a hell of a grip now because of mine lol. In the end, you'll need to tune it to your personal preference, we all have ours.
X52's IMO are the most economical sticks, but the sensors arnt really that good. TBH, i found it didnt really matter that much? People do great with them.
Luceferous has it about right. The X65f has some special requirements, specifically having to be mounted and completely immobile. And there is some training that has to go into it. I spent about 2 weeks working with it before I became highly proficient, but once I did... Omg it's like the ship itself is attached to my arm. The ship maneuvers at the slightest whim.
Unlike Luceferous however, I'll state my opinion that it's best to learn to cope with as little deadzone as possible, even zero. I set mine up with no deadzones and linear curves. Adjust the force strength settings to match whatever is comfortable to you, and just acknowledge the fact that for awhile you'll be putting WAY more force into the stick then you'll need (trying to push it past it's max "throw"), and your hand will likely get sore. I have a hell of a grip now because of mine lol. In the end, you'll need to tune it to your personal preference, we all have ours.
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In an ideal world I'd go with no deadzone's too, definitely! I find that the force sensing is prone to wandering around a bit though, hence the deadzones for me. I'm still experimenting with settings though. Right now I'm using stock force with trimmed-back deadzones either side. I've used minimum deadzones in the centre to allow for any axis creep:
View attachment 3473
F2 is almost identical to my Sidewinder Force feedback, only (and get this)...better!
View attachment 3473
F2 is almost identical to my Sidewinder Force feedback, only (and get this)...better!
Luce ferrous. I'm a happy man. I can not believe the control on the x65f, it completely tricks the mind into thinking your moving the stick. It's like having the choice of a thousand different strength springs in the stick. It's completely blown me away. To be able to play around with so many force and dead zone settings, it's like an extention of my hand. WOW!!!
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Forgive the typo on your name. It's way to early to recheck my phone auto spell
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Forgive the typo on your name. It's way to early to recheck my phone auto spell
See? Not everything that fails at market sucks goats! ;-)
I like the x65f so much that I'm...nnnng....putting my Sidewinder FF2 on eBay. There, I've said it!
If you have any problems you need help with or if you have any tips to share, just shout!
Hi there,
I have a Sidewinder Precision Pro and would like to continue with it if possible.
The problems I have is that (a) it seems to have a "big turning circle" and (b) almost impossible to hold on target.
I have tried 0 deadzone through to about 20% but going above about 2-3% just seems to make response for change of direction worse.
Is there a more comprehensive joystick tweek in ED other than the standard set-up?
Ideally a two phase control so that I can hold a button to make fine adjustments during following/aiming but still have full range to 100% effect in flying.
Then (c) the throttle is not responding properly and "dies" wherever it was last left - needing to be rotated back & forth to activate again and pick up the changes.
I like to be able to throttle right back to a reverse burst to try and have my opponent overshoot and then pick up speed again for the chase.
It does not seem to have these problems in other programmes such as Star Citizen.
For those of us with limited short term memory is there an easy printout yet of the control settings page?
I have a Sidewinder Precision Pro and would like to continue with it if possible.
The problems I have is that (a) it seems to have a "big turning circle" and (b) almost impossible to hold on target.
I have tried 0 deadzone through to about 20% but going above about 2-3% just seems to make response for change of direction worse.
Is there a more comprehensive joystick tweek in ED other than the standard set-up?
Ideally a two phase control so that I can hold a button to make fine adjustments during following/aiming but still have full range to 100% effect in flying.
Then (c) the throttle is not responding properly and "dies" wherever it was last left - needing to be rotated back & forth to activate again and pick up the changes.
I like to be able to throttle right back to a reverse burst to try and have my opponent overshoot and then pick up speed again for the chase.
It does not seem to have these problems in other programmes such as Star Citizen.
For those of us with limited short term memory is there an easy printout yet of the control settings page?
I've got a Sidewinder FFB, so it's very closely related to your product, and while my x65f has on-the-fly 'spring' adjustment, the Sidewinder is in every way equally as good. I've actually got my f65 set up to mimic the Sidewinder as closely as possible. If you're having issues with the stick, then it sounds like it probably has a problem somewhere. That could also explain your throttle issue, though that might be that you need to look at the reverse toggle option in settings.
There are key guides out there, just google the key words and use image search to quickly find what you need. A Logitech G910 would also come in handy with its excellent customisable RGB keys and mechanical switches, letting you see commands at a glance. The newly designed switches make it the best gaming board I've tried. Build quality is superb too. Be careful of the Corsair RGB though, because the light bleed kills individual key recognition, while the Razer Chroma uses cheap Chinese switches, plagued by problems but with a price equal to far superior German made versions.