Elite / Frontier What other space games are there?

[RedMattis]

Since there are a lot of knowledgable people around here...
I'm looking for a game of a name which I cannot remember (That of course is my problem)

The Game is a 2D real time game where you when accelerated will keep going in the same direction no matter the facing.

You start a few systems to the right of Sol I believe.

The weapons are fairly typical. You can trade. You 'jump' between systems.

You can board ships, and this get easier if you buy mercenary troops (or whatever they are called), but these take up a lot of cargo space.

Doing some missions will make you an ally of the relevant county, and let you use their advanced ships and technology.

One space civilisation has odd blue ships which always move in the direction of their facing, and can slow down without turning 180 degrees. These ships are apearently made psionically or something like that.

There is a strange alien race that looks like asteroids which shoot asteroid like projectiles at you when provoked.

The game was/is a 30 day limited trial, I believe.

 

[barcode]

Since there are a lot of knowledgable people around here...
I'm looking for a game of a name which I cannot remember (That of course is my problem)

The Game is a 2D real time game where you when accelerated will keep going in the same direction no matter the facing.

You start a few systems to the right of Sol I believe.

The weapons are fairly typical. You can trade. You 'jump' between systems.

You can board ships, and this get easier if you buy mercenary troops (or whatever they are called), but these take up a lot of cargo space.

Doing some missions will make you an ally of the relevant county, and let you use their advanced ships and technology.

One space civilisation has odd blue ships which always move in the direction of their facing, and can slow down without turning 180 degrees. These ships are apearently made psionically or something like that.

There is a strange alien race that looks like asteroids which shoot asteroid like projectiles at you when provoked.

The game was/is a 30 day limited trial, I believe.

That sounds a lot like Escape Velocity: Nova.

It has everything you described; marine squads, blue inertialess psionic ships, alien nanite pods, 2D graphics, and if I recall correctly its a 30-day trial too.

 

[Steve O B Have]

Gah... Looks like Tomorrow War is a complete bomb.

Video of gameplay:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjUwyfaTqfo

Review: http://www.hookedgamers.com/articles/review/880/the_tomorrow_war

Some excerpts:

The game falls short right from the start. The Tutorial leaves you wondering what you are supposed to do while the game seems to be playing without any input from the gamer. It wasn’t long before I learned why I got so confused by the tutorial: the game is profoundly broken. Much of the in-flight voice work is missing which means that the orders you are given never reach your ears. Occasionally, written orders are shown on screen but something seems to conspire against you getting any orders at all. You see, most of the written orders are shown only after several orders have been given, leaving you utterly confused -and frustrated- as a result.

The voice work is an obvious culprit in this but if the animation and character design had been top-notch it could have salvaged some of that. Unfortunately your character and the NPCs are so stiff that they must share DNA with mannequins. Their faces are completely devoid of emotions, making the chance of you identifying with your in-game presentation very unlikely indeed. Oh, and their lips continue to move long after the voice is already done speaking, giving any conversation a positively surreal quality.

All of the above is further hampered by mediocre controls and a weird cockpit design that tells you barely enough to make due while being utterly in your way. The Tomorrow War was designed for the Russian market and in its current state it would have been better if it had stayed there. With enough polish, better dialogue and proper voice acting, it could have been a shoo-in for Space Sim fans in Western markets. As it stands, its disc is worth more as a coaster for your coffee mug than a game.

 

[Darkman]

Pitty, it sounded like an interesting game although the graphics were very outdated. It was listed on play.com and now I know why it was pulled.

 

[Spacegamer]

Another one bites the dust.

Still there's Precursors and Northstar is looking very interesting

 

[Steve O B Have]

Another one bites the dust.

Still there's Precursors and Northstar is looking very interesting

Precursors looks a bit horrible IMO. It looks suspiciously like it's a fly to planet then kill everything, fly to next planet then kill everything etc. Not my idea of fun.

Northstar I haven't seen much about at all - got any links?

 

[Spacegamer]

You could right about Precursors,as looks it may play some thing similar to Boiling Point

Theres a thread about Northstar on spacesim central

http://www.spacesimcentral.com/forum.html

Not sure if the link are working as I got very bad internet access at the monment


http://www.strategycore.co.uk/pg/northstarinterview

http://sots.rorschach.net/Category_talk:NorthStar

 

[Catapult]

You guys have forgotten completely about Oolite! Very much like Elite. However, if any of you do in fact download it download version 1.73.3 and not 1.65.

http://aegidian.org/bb/index.php?sid=985d030240ff5f475e67145732171b21

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Oolite_Main_Page

 

[Steve O B Have]

You guys have forgotten completely about Oolite! Very much like Elite. However, if any of you do in fact download it download version 1.73.3 and not 1.65.

http://aegidian.org/bb/index.php?sid=985d030240ff5f475e67145732171b21

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Oolite_Main_Page

Nah we haven't forgotten about it, the thing is with most of us we're bigger fans of the Frontier Elite series over the original Elite. I have thrashed out Oolite a bit and enjoyed it but it just doesn't have the depth (even with the addons) that Frontier had/has. It great for a thrash but for me at least it doesn't hold me for any great lengths.

Oh and welcome to the forums!

 

[Sir.Tj]

Oolites a great version of Elite, played with it abit and enjoyed it. But, as Steve said most seem to stay with the originals. FFE for me

 

[DraQ]

Nah we haven't forgotten about it, the thing is with most of us we're bigger fans of the Frontier Elite series over the original Elite.

I, at least, am - I like my spacesims Newtonian and my SF hard.

Currently playing I-War 2, but, while Newtonian and having some stuff that should make it to E4 (subtargetting, escorts, large, properly scaled ships, more interesting missions, more ship control options and convincing freighter pilots to jettison cargo) the game has absolutely horrid controls and simply doesn't take the Newtonian mechanics to it's logical conclusion like Frontier has - no orbital movement, no frames of reference, broken velocity meter that is, to add insult to injury, only working up to 9999m/s, stupid LDS drive (technically a type of stutterdirve) breaking the feeling of distance and artificially speeding up the gameplay while simultaneously failing at providing a workaround for time compression - because despite of being allegedly sub-light propulsion it very clearly allows craft to travel faster than light - distances around 10AU are still traversed in a matter of minutes, not hours.
Add everyone still thinking in non-Newtonian terms - for example Police wanting you to stop for inspection mid-system, as if it mattered - in Frontier such a demand would be laughable and not even possible to fulfil.
Also, it has dreaded tutti-frutti backgrounds (the starfield effect, however, is nice).

All in all, a nice game, but simply not in Frontier's league.

 

[Catapult]

You may have a point about the non-Newtonian physics and how it isn't exactly frontier, however, you have gotten several things wrong though. First of all, the police can not stop you for inspection. The only reason you would be communicated by police is so the blast you into space. Second, what version were you using exactly and how long ago? It sounds like you were using a rather old version. The current versions have many of those problems you reported fixed, although the current test release 1.74 does have a few bugs. I also don't understand the tutti-frutti backgrounds. It sounds more like a graphics card problem that either came from stable release 1.65 or 1.74. Plus it looks like you haven't gone through the addons list for a very long time.

Although, as you said, the original Elite and FFE are in completely different leagues, so I shouldn't be saying anything. I'll be quiet.

 

[DraQ]

You may have a point about the non-Newtonian physics and how it isn't exactly frontier, however, you have gotten several things wrong though. (...)

Waitwaitwait.
Reality check.
I drifted off into digression about how the second game of the another, allegedly also realistic, space-sim series I-War, although good, is still not quite Frontier.

You?

 

[warppig]

What are peoples opinion on the X series of games?

The Best thing in a long time, frankly.

 

[Spacegamer]

"x Games Hold It Up To The Light...not An Original Idea In Sight"!

 

[DrBaggy]

Too pretty, shallow, not Newtonian, no feeling of a real universe to me. Sorry!

 

[SuperG]

The Best thing in a long time, frankly.

I agree.
What other Dx9 or higher 2008+ commercial retail game is out there. That competes with it.
That even use modern hardware a bit to stress it.

Universal combat, Freelancer is old, or other more accient stuff.
No non commercial independant stuf, or mods.

What els it out there. Or did I miss again something realy good.

 

[sfried]

Do these games need to have Newtonian physics to be good? I just find that more often than not, they tend to get in the way of fluid combat. Unless it's handeled the same way as Babylon 5: I've Found Her, I don't see why uber-realism should take precidence over smooth gameplay.

I have I-War 2. I agree the controlls are horrid...initially, untill you get to install the key binding program so you can customize the controls (I-War 2 was also said to be in development as a Dreamcast game, but got canned the last minute). It's not so bad now that I have everything properly setup, but the hassle to go through all that might put off many people.

And Freelancer definitely is the most accessible. I don't see why it should be put down for lack of physics, etc. It's done quite much for its development hell cycles.

 

[DraQ]

Do these games need to have Newtonian physics to be good? I just find that more often than not, they tend to get in the way of fluid combat.

Ummm.... Examples?
I can agree that Newtonian physics can incline learning curve somewhat, but once you master it, I don't even see a way back - personally I would probably throw space-sim with arcade physics out of the window because of sheer frustration now. I'm too used to being able to rotate independently of my current velocity vector, accelerate in any direction and use inertia to my advantage, to play a space game, where those things should be logically present, but aren't. There is nothing cooler than swooping past your enemy, simultaneously rotating and decelerating, then blowing his unprotected hindquarters to smithereens while flying backwards.

I can do it in FE2, I can do it in FFE and I can do it in (reconfigured) IW2:EoC. It arguably makes combat even more fluid, because of increased freedom of movement that doesn't in anyway hinder my ability to stick to vessel's six, stay there regardless of my prey's evasive manoeuvres and melt them with my energy weapons at my leisure from below 1km range. You don't need astrophysics doctorate or superhuman abilities for that - a bit of practice in FFE in well kitted Asp or Cobra is more than enough. Now, if you simply assumed that controllable combat is impossible and stuck with milkruns till you could afford Panther with >100 shieldgens, there is no wonder that fluidity of your combat is, to put it euphemistically, lacking.

I don't see why uber-realism should take precidence over smooth gameplay.

False dichotomy. Even more so than the one between graphics and gameplay. Realism, when used right, enhances the gameplay - through verisimilitude, through increasing the sandbox potential, through creating memorable situations, through helping create coherent gameworld, through amplifying the 'cool factor' (how many games let you hurtle through space at thousands of km/s? How many allow you to fly mere hundreds of meters above some barren, airless landscape at over 20000km/h when doing a photo run?), etc.
Also, there is difference between realism implemented right and one only hindering the gameplay - game can easily become too complicated, but I have never seen one that was too complex.

I have I-War 2. I agree the controlls are horrid...initially, untill you get to install the key binding program so you can customize the controls

A program? I just edited the .ini.

It's not so bad now that I have everything properly setup, but the hassle to go through all that might put off many people.

Well, once I remapped almost all of the controls, it became really comfortable - my hands no longer even leave the mouse and numpad unless I need to use the autopilot. Still, there are some pieces of horrid design that don't go away as easily - for example velocity meter - not only does it rate only up to 9999m/s, but it measures only Z-axis velocity and lacks vector sights. Another thing is that the game isn't quite as Newtonian as Frontier - it lacks orbital movement, gravity and it assumes single absolute frame of reference which leads to immersion breaking when the police, for example, orders you to stop in mid-system.

And Freelancer definitely is the most accessible. I don't see why it should be put down for lack of physics, etc. It's done quite much for its development hell cycles.

Meh. I'll tell you what - if I had to make a more relateable flight sim with arcade physics, I wouldn't even bother with SF. I would make a fantasy one, you'd "pilot" a dragon (because dragons are inherently cool, duh), use fiery breath, magic, teeth, claws and possibly some unlikely contraptions as weapons, unrestricted by rigid framework of physics in how they work and look, and you'd get to fly over much more relateable, if often alien, landscape. Why compromise? Either you make a proper SF game or not - why dress fantasy up as SF? That first Star Wars trilogy got away with that is not sufficient rationale.

 

[sfried]

Ummm.... Examples?

Meh. I'll tell you what - if I had to make a more relateable flight sim with arcade physics, I wouldn't even bother with SF. I would make a fantasy one, you'd "pilot" a dragon (because dragons are inherently cool, duh), use fiery breath, magic, teeth, claws and possibly some unlikely contraptions as weapons, unrestricted by rigid framework of physics in how they work and look, and you'd get to fly over much more relateable, if often alien, landscape. Why compromise? Either you make a proper SF game or not - why dress fantasy up as SF? That first Star Wars trilogy got away with that is not sufficient rationale.

Because some people just like to blow crap up in space without having to deal with a physics engine that works against the player.

For example, Freespace 2 gave us nice WWII combat but with massive warships that dwarf your craft. You would probably argue they might as well have made a WWII simulator if that were the case, but a)then there would be gravity b) you won't have the huge-scale battles that you would if it were in space.

In other words, it's more feasible to do it in space, but it doesn't necessarily have to function exactly like it would in space, just so long as it's fun to play and cool to watch.

Also, there is difference between realism implemented right and one only hindering the gameplay - game can easily become too complicated, but I have never seen one that was too complex.

Perhaps a good compromise between arcade-like interface/controls and simulation style physics/realism would be suitable. Check out Babylon 5:IFH as an example (although like Freespace 2, not an Elite-like), with an optional computer to compensate for your thrusters to simulate arcade-style craft control in a Newtonian physics environment (and you can switch this off if you're more experienced). A condensed display would also help and lessen the HUD elements to avoid too much information overload.

Another thing is that the game isn't quite as Newtonian as Frontier - it lacks orbital movement, gravity and it assumes single absolute frame of reference which leads to immersion breaking when the police, for example, orders you to stop in mid-system.

I realize I-War 2 has "friction" in space and such, but there were many times where I felt frustrated when I didn't have control over my craft and really wished I would stop spinning. These are one of the times I'm thankfull I did not fall into orbital decay and suddenly plummeted to my death before saving.

I agree that those random encounters with police can be very irritating. They're just not as irritating as Privateer 2's, though .