Elite / Frontier What other space games are there?

[turwhitt]

Because some people just like to blow crap up in space without having to deal with a physics engine that works against the player.

And there are already plenty of games for those people to play.

Who said anything about realistic physics working against the player?

 

[Sir.Tj]

One of the major draws of the Elite games was its realisim.

Newtonian Physics, the vastness of space, planet landings, accurate star systems. the list goes on...

What other game can you skim a sun to collect Hydrogen to re-fuel your ship?

Nothing has come along to get even close to the feeling of warping into a system and getting blasted into atoms before you even get a chance to breathe, that's the fun of the game for me, or hitting the hyperspace button and getting a mis-jump into a section of space with no way of getting back.

Realisim is for me the mainstay of the games, and I would be very dissapointed of that was not a core part of E4.

 

[DraQ]

Because some people just like to blow crap up in space without having to deal with a physics engine that works against the player.

For example, Freespace 2 gave us nice WWII combat but with massive warships that dwarf your craft. You would probably argue they might as well have made a WWII simulator if that were the case, but a)then there would be gravity b) you won't have the huge-scale battles that you would if it were in space.

In other words, it's more feasible to do it in space, but it doesn't necessarily have to function exactly like it would in space, just so long as it's fun to play and cool to watch.

All the responses you will ever need:

And there are already plenty of games for those people to play.

Who said anything about realistic physics working against the player?

One of the major draws of the Elite games was its realisim.

Newtonian Physics, the vastness of space, planet landings, accurate star systems. the list goes on...

What other game can you skim a sun to collect Hydrogen to re-fuel your ship?

Nothing has come along to get even close to the feeling of warping into a system and getting blasted into atoms before you even get a chance to breathe, that's the fun of the game for me, or hitting the hyperspace button and getting a mis-jump into a section of space with no way of getting back.

Realisim is for me the mainstay of the games, and I would be very dissapointed of that was not a core part of E4.

Perhaps a good compromise between arcade-like interface/controls and simulation style physics/realism would be suitable. Check out Babylon 5:IFH as an example (although like Freespace 2, not an Elite-like), with an optional computer to compensate for your thrusters to simulate arcade-style craft control in a Newtonian physics environment (and you can switch this off if you're more experienced).

Now we're talking. As long it's done on the level of interface, not game mechanics, and as long as it's completely optional, I see no problems whatsoever. This amounts to training wheels approach - use the automatics until you get comfortable with the mechanics, discard them once you outgrow them only turning them back on when you just can't be bothered.
Let there be as much different autopilot and semi-auto modes as desirable, as long as none of them performs impossible manoeuvres and as long as you can turn any of them off any time and default to direct thruster control.

A condensed display would also help and lessen the HUD elements to avoid too much information overload.

I like a lot of information, but it should be displayed in ergonomic and readable manner. Also, varius HUD elements should be toggleable - for example HUD should offer ability to project trajectories of nearby objects, but you should be able to turn it off to avoid too much mess on your screen.

I realize I-War 2 has "friction" in space and such

Not really. "Friction" was in fact flight-assist mode that used your thrusters to stop you, which would be possible in Frontier on a condition that it would only stop you relative to your current frame of reference. I usually turned it off in combat. Most of my complains about I-War physics are directed at it's universal frame of reference, assumption that complete halt is somehow natural and LDS drive breaking the sense of distance, artificially accelerating the gameplay while simultaneously failing as sub-light propulsion, because you often flied faster-than light by at least an order of magnitude. Rest of my complaints are mostly interface and bad game design. Of course, you could land on planets in Frontier while you couldn't in I-War too.

but there were many times where I felt frustrated when I didn't have control over my craft and really wished I would stop spinning.

That happens when you get clonked off center sufficiently hard. But it's a good reason to implement "KILLROT" panic button that would attempt to cancel ship's rotation ASAP through any means necessary while still allowing you to use directional thrust for translation movement.

These are one of the times I'm thankfull I did not fall into orbital decay and suddenly plummeted to my death before saving.

You wouldn't. First, orbital decay takes a lot of time even for low orbits - you don't just magically dissipate your huge kinetic energy and fall to the ground below. Second, even if you would start falling towards the planet, it would take you minutes at least - turn on the Frontier, get high enough to see the stars during the day (assuming the planet has the atmosphere), stop relative to the planet (to fall straight down), turn off the engines and measure the time it will take you to hit the ground. Yep - space is big.

I agree that those random encounters with police can be very irritating. They're just not as irritating as Privateer 2's, though .

It's not the encounters themselves - those actually add immersion. Also, this particular encounter was scripted anyway. It's the bizarre demands - "stop". Not only does it make no sense without specified frame of reference (we are in deep space, what should I stop relative to, officer?) and is only possible because I-War uses fixed absolute FOR and it's astronomical bodies don't move; not only does it serve no purpose (Who cares if I'm moving relative to anything else, officer, if I'm stationary relative to your ship?); but it would also be a ridiculous demand was it not for I-War's brand of inertialess stutterdrive (fine, officer, if I put my thrusters on full burn I should manage to stop by the next Sunday - hope you didn't have any plans for the weekend).

It simply blows your suspension of disbelief when alleged spacers show to have their minds completely ensnared by the planetside concepts, ' mudturtles.

 

[turwhitt]

(fine, officer, if I put my thrusters on full burn I should manage to stop by the next Sunday - hope you didn't have any plans for the weekend).

...... ' mudturtles.

Haha.

Good point, well put.

 

[Spacegamer]

It simply blows your suspension of disbelief when alleged spacers show to have their minds completely ensnared by the planetside concepts, ' mudturtles.

Guilty as charged.

But then again I for one have total confidence in Frontier ability to do a space sim.My real
interest lies in what they may add to that.

 

[DraQ]

But then again I for one have total confidence in Frontier ability to do a space sim.My real
interest lies in what they may add to that.

Well, it's DB we're talking about - he not only seems genuinely interested in making proper spacesims, not only was capable of writing one by himself in freaking assembler, but his brainchild also managed to outsell any contemporary game on European market, so yeah.

Bumpdate:

Second, even if you would start falling towards the planet, it would take you minutes at least - turn on the Frontier, get high enough to see the stars during the day (assuming the planet has the atmosphere), stop relative to the planet (to fall straight down), turn off the engines and measure the time it will take you to hit the ground.

Assuming planet with 1.33 Earth mass, falling straight down from a bit over 100km takes about 2'27". From dead stop - it would take much, much longer if you moved with anything resembling orbital velocity.

 

[vorlon31]

Just re-found this forum to say that the original Jumpgate now named 'Jumpgate Classic' (http://www.jossh.com) is back in the dev loop. GM_Istvan has been reassigned and has patched twice since resuming the helm following 3 yrs on Jumpgate Evolution.

While its no Elite as such, it has no planet docking and a relatively small map, it is well worth taking a look at. GM_Istvan is in contact with players through the forums and is keen on players suggestions.

Anyway, all good stuff.