Progression, Reputation, and why everyone will probably trade all day....

[Naruchico]

I spent a bit of time in-game today, and felt a bit bored, I was trading doing normal 800-1000 per unit trades trying to put together some post patch credits, and got to thinking and talking amidst people I spend time on TS with and we came to some mildly concerning situations.

we asked questions to each other that I honestly think FD has never asked each other such as:

Why would I gain reputation with a specific faction?

The answer we came to was, nothing, there is absolutely no good reason, but we did come up with some things that would motivate us. Our idea's where: obtaining special decals, being awarded special ships (no cost, you earned it!), better trading prices, or even special trade items(extra special rare goods).

Why isn't there any job specific ships?

This kinda touches the same area as above. Why isn't there more specific ships for the jobs they are aimed at, such as a mining ship that instead of lasers and scooping, has built in drills that pushes the items into the refinery without scooping, but has lackluster armor, and no weapon slots. Sometimes utilitarian vehicles gives that feel of having a place in a class or job.

Why bother interacting with the universe?

We really had a hard time with this idea, but if there isn't any selfish reason to interact we won't, hence why it seems most of us are trading. Don't get me wrong trading is fun, but there is so many people doing it that sometimes I feel like it is the 90% focus of the game, obtaining credits, and the real depth of the game comes from simply that, how credits are moved around. politics mean nothing to us unless it feeds our need for the bigger badder ship. Part of this issue also is there is 400 billion systems, why care about any of the factions when there is literally so much space that it makes them irrelevant, if and area gets too hot for trading I move on, if the prices drop cause of war here, famine there blah blah, I move over where more money can be made.

Why is it all about credits?

After all this conversation we generally came to the consensus that the heart of the problem is the game is about credits, faction, reputation, skill, ship, all irrelevant because credits determines everything, from how you fly, why you fly, and what you fly and that is a major problem. The only way to gain anything in Elite at the moment is credits, which I think is killing a lot of the peoples motivations.

I think everyone is looking to feel unique in this game in their own way, but the game currently treats everyone in a communistic sense, you are number 874612, and your credit value is 238,000. you don't feel like "I am Kahn, baron of the federation and this cruiser represents the wars I have raged against opposition!".

Thank you for reading, and please, talk, converse, call me belligerent, I just want to know how you feel, cause this is how I and a few others do.

 

[DragonIV]

if and area gets too hot for trading I move on, if the prices drop cause of war here, famine there blah blah, I move over where more money can be made.

Personally, I think trading should be extremely profitable in warzones, just as IRL.

everyone is looking to feel unique in this game in their own way

Yep. I would love more customization of ship appearance than simple paint jobs.

but the game currently treats everyone in a communistic sense, you are number 874612, and your credit value is 238,000. you don't feel like "I am Kahn, baron of the federation and this cruiser represents the wars I have raged against opposition!".

Not sure precisely what you're asking for here. Rewards other than money for tasks done in the universe, so it doesn't just seem like Elite: Transportation Tycoon?

 

[dirtybeatfreak]

I think this is a great post. I do feel however though that the 'chasing credits' issue will be addressed. At the moment, it seems they are just trying to get the game out and stable. I am quite certain they will start filling the game out a lot more once it has been out for a couple of months and things have settled. I mean, there are still the DLC's to come (which I know are maybe a year away at least) so they are going to have to think about things like this at same point.
One thing I would like to see is maybe upgrades or something similar for rewards for doing missions, so think you have a point there.

The way I am looking at it is, that I want to become mega rich ready for whatever is next. That probably doesn't make any sense lol, but it is keeping me happy and I can't stop playing!

 

[Naruchico]

Not sure precisely what you're asking for here. Rewards other than money for tasks done in the universe, so it doesn't just seem like Elite: Transportation Tycoon?

Exactly, anything that gives me a sense of accomplishment that isn't just waving dollar bills in my face lol

 

[Rearden]

The reason everyone does trading is because everything else makes no money. Hunters can hardly pay for fuel, explorers barely make enough for gas and smugglers spend most of their time making a loss.

I suspect pirates, like everyone else, have to trade to be able to afford what they actually want to do. If all the game has to offer on release is this it will get boring very fast.

 

[Xantasia]

"Why would I gain reputation with a specific faction?

The answer we came to was, nothing, there is absolutely no good reason, but we did come up with some things that would motivate us. Our idea's where: obtaining special decals, being awarded special ships (no cost, you earned it!), better trading prices, or even special trade items(extra special rare goods).

Maybe i am missing the point but why ask a question with the answer "Zero" and then continue to expand why you should gain from something you have just said should gain you "Zero"?

If you are a computer repairer and you screw up repairs your return business will diminish, do a good job at a good price and word of mouth (Rep) should increase so more business, you are trusted to what you say you will do.

Unless you are talking about another game ED has all those in built go check it out in Detail plz

 

[DarkRaideR]

Hmm doesn´t sound good if plain credits are really all what you earn. But i still hope they bring some other stuff, i mean hey christmas is coming
Oh btw focus on just earning credits is a capitalistic way.

 

[Mu77ley]

Personally I haven't done any dedicated trading since Premium Beta...

 

[Pr0]

I second this post

 

[Innigo]

In the future reputation will lead to missions which (possibly sadly given the OP's post) will lead to more credits. Credits are the game's currency, literally

 

[Matke]

As an old school Elite Frontier player, earning credits and rep was the whole point of the game!

However they have now created a online version of the game. I expect we will see new content released regularly. So I wouldn't be to hasty in putting down earning faction reps just yet.

 

[iamriot]

Not sure precisely what you're asking for here. Rewards other than money for tasks done in the universe, so it doesn't just seem like Elite: Transportation Tycoon?

He's looking for an epic adventure through the Galaxy. Not a commodity exchange simulator.

 

[FrogsFriend]

I do it all, because I find it to be fun. The credits are just a fairly small part of that. I'm currently engaged in trying to increase the population/wealth/standing of the factions in the system where my named planet resides because I can, but in my spare time I'm mining, bounty hunting, flying other missions and trading as and when the opportunity arises.

"if there isn't any selfish reason to interact we won't" - I think this may be the core of your unease and could possibly limit your long-term interest in the game. I don't think that this is the sort of game that constantly showers you with rewards and pats-on-the-back to try and keep you playing. To a very large degree you will have to choose your own goals, and a certain amount of imagination (role playing may be a better term ) will be required.

Anyway that's just my thoughts, and hopefully you'll find something in the game that drags you in and keeps you enthused.

 

[KillSlim]

Is piracy at all feasible? I'm only in the combat beta and have completed all of the scenarios and I want to do something other than trade.

 

[Bosie]

The reason everyone does trading is because everything else makes no money. Hunters can hardly pay for fuel, explorers barely make enough for gas and smugglers spend most of their time making a loss.

I suspect pirates, like everyone else, have to trade to be able to afford what they actually want to do. If all the game has to offer on release is this it will get boring very fast.

I'm not trading, in exploring and making good money. I started fresh on Monday and I am now in a viper with some nice gear. I'm in no rush to make millions, and my fuel costs are zero thanks to my 2D fuel scoop. 250k in scanning and around 100k from killing the folks that have interdicted me.

If you want to rush to the most expensive toys, good for you. This 84er is happy to spend the next few years bimbling around slowly upgrading. The journey is the game.

 

[RegalImmigrant]

As an old school Elite Frontier player, earning credits and rep was the whole point of the game!

I think given the circumstances that they've created, the Elite devs are honor- and finance-bound to attempt to cobble together something that looks and feels like the original Elite, as a core, and then turn that into something new and far bigger and grander, because that's what their 21st century audience and players and backers want and deserve. The OP raised a lot of good questions, to which the answers are probably "because this is Elite and not some other game and that's how Elite is supposed to play out". Sometime down the line, if the game survives, I suspect the devs will start to drop a lot of the Elite prerequisites and introduce features that answer the issues currently generated by trying to keep to the Elite tradition too closely.

I agree with the OP and a lot of other very reasonable questions that are reasonable in the context of any modern future-space-sim type game, but I also agree with the above comment from an old school Elite fan. I think the point is, you have to ask your questions in a different context - that of this game being a direct descendant of Elite and not permitted - yet - to fall too far from the tree. Whether that's been a wise choice by the game creators, remains to be seen; perhaps they should have relied less on those of us who backed the game because it was Elite, and sought backing from people who wanted the Elite creators' skills and imaginations applied to something that wasn't Elite and all that implies. Meanwhile the only questions that count, IMO, are concerned not with broad conceptual issues but simply getting the myriad bugs and inconsistencies out of what we've got today, which is a product not ready for retail release but committed to the pretense. Let's support whatever the devs can do to make a game that doesn't crash to the desktop, and hassle them over conceptual issues later?

 

[rrrman]

Why would I gain reputation with a specific faction? If I remember correctly you can only get certain ships depending on who you side with, unless they have changed this. Other would be better pricing for hauling, doing missions, etc... As of today you also gain missions for Faction Military and that sort of thing.

Why isn't there any job specific ships? I believes because of freedom to buy and build what you want instead having only one path to a specific ship. Most ships they have listed you can configure to do multiple jobs or as I do and gut them and make them haulers. My guess is that down the road with more ships to choose from you will have job specific ships or ships that are better at one thing.

Why bother interacting with the universe? Personally I like how they are setting it up. If you fell Sociable you can chat with other Commanders or fly missions or what have you. If you want to play doing your own thing you can also do that. Some (Me), when doing certain things (grinding) prefer to not have to chat or have distractions. I love to listen to tunes when playing and have been doing this as long as I have been flying (Flight Sim). With other games it used to be not wanting to screw someone elses game because I had to bail for work or what have you.

Why is it all about credits? There has to be a way of advancing through the game, you can either earn it or pay to play. I prefer to earn it, it means a lot more when you do. Same as the reputation factor, as you play your reputation will move in the direction reflecting your choice(s). As in the real world if someone knows they can count on you you will be the first person they call, and reversely if you are constantly late you may only get the call if your last on the list. To me Reputation is worth as much or more as the money (credits) in the grand scheme of things. If you are respected by your peers or whomever it may be you can go as far as you want, because you will always have an avenue open to you. In as far as the game, I approach it (the game) in this same way. If I complete the tasks and or anything I'm doing I will reap the rewards. Some games lend them selve to life in general or mirror in general, or the beauty of the game setup is if you have always wanted to be a villain you can choose that path and have fun within the game. I have always loved games such as this because you are free to go in any direction you choose and at any time change your mind and do something else. Lastly the credit crunch at the first will help set up the choices to have for later, whether it be mining, exploring or whatever it happens to be.

Now with that said, Just enjoy the game for what it is A Game!

Your's truly,
Long Winded

 

[Valcrow]

I mainly do combat related things. The only trading I do is stolen goods I got from blasting hatches open.

I find it more 'profitable' and certainly more fun than trading at least in the early game. Pew pew an ASP and it's usually like 8-10k. if they happen to drop some gold then it's a bit more It's quite doable in a freagle.

Getting back to the station without getting scanned is also quite fun and challenging.

This game is about personal fun, so do things you enjoy, who cares if someone is making more credits than you per hour trading. You'll get there too with a LOT more combat experience. You don't need a big ship to have fun in combat, infact it's arguably MORE fun when it's a big challenge.

IMO Bounty hunting/smuggling is entirely viable but perhaps not as efficient as trading once you get up to 30+ tons of cargo.


I like the questions you pose though OP. There should be some perks/items/skins that you can only obtain by faction, rank and reputation. Credits should be a way of getting there, but not the be all and end all goal of every action.
For example... Perhaps one faction manufactures all the railguns in the galaxy, and as your rank gets higher with that faction, they will rearm your railguns for a fraction of the market price. (this will also help in the viability of combat in late game) Perhaps they may have you test an experimental gimbled rail gun that may or may not explode upon firing.

Perhaps a restricted alien quadrant has been found, but only seasoned and proven explorers are allowed to explore due to the sensitive nature... (and logically you don't want seasoned pirates and bounty hunters in there)

As for job specific ships, I think because of modules, you can build ships to be job specific or generic... the system is good there already. But maybe there is room for additional 'specific role' modules that allows for even more specialization.

 

[Herik]

I spent a bit of time in-game today, and felt a bit bored, I was trading doing normal 800-1000 per unit trades trying to put together some post patch credits, and got to thinking and talking amidst people I spend time on TS with and we came to some mildly concerning situations.

we asked questions to each other that I honestly think FD has never asked each other such as:

Why would I gain reputation with a specific faction?

The answer we came to was, nothing, there is absolutely no good reason, but we did come up with some things that would motivate us. Our idea's where: obtaining special decals, being awarded special ships (no cost, you earned it!), better trading prices, or even special trade items(extra special rare goods).

Why isn't there any job specific ships?

This kinda touches the same area as above. Why isn't there more specific ships for the jobs they are aimed at, such as a mining ship that instead of lasers and scooping, has built in drills that pushes the items into the refinery without scooping, but has lackluster armor, and no weapon slots. Sometimes utilitarian vehicles gives that feel of having a place in a class or job.

Why bother interacting with the universe?

We really had a hard time with this idea, but if there isn't any selfish reason to interact we won't, hence why it seems most of us are trading. Don't get me wrong trading is fun, but there is so many people doing it that sometimes I feel like it is the 90% focus of the game, obtaining credits, and the real depth of the game comes from simply that, how credits are moved around. politics mean nothing to us unless it feeds our need for the bigger badder ship. Part of this issue also is there is 400 billion systems, why care about any of the factions when there is literally so much space that it makes them irrelevant, if and area gets too hot for trading I move on, if the prices drop cause of war here, famine there blah blah, I move over where more money can be made.

Why is it all about credits?

After all this conversation we generally came to the consensus that the heart of the problem is the game is about credits, faction, reputation, skill, ship, all irrelevant because credits determines everything, from how you fly, why you fly, and what you fly and that is a major problem. The only way to gain anything in Elite at the moment is credits, which I think is killing a lot of the peoples motivations.

I think everyone is looking to feel unique in this game in their own way, but the game currently treats everyone in a communistic sense, you are number 874612, and your credit value is 238,000. you don't feel like "I am Kahn, baron of the federation and this cruiser represents the wars I have raged against opposition!".

Thank you for reading, and please, talk, converse, call me belligerent, I just want to know how you feel, cause this is how I and a few others do.

Yeah; it's not Eve...

 

[Alric]

I think everyone is looking to feel unique in this game in their own way, but the game currently treats everyone in a communistic sense, you are number 874612, and your credit value is 238,000.

Unfortunately, there's been a perception on here from early that if you want your in game persona to have any significance or relevance to the people around him, then you want to play Skyrim in space and save the world and are thus playing the wrong game. People actively fought for a game where whatever you do, nobody gives a **** about you. And they almost got it.

In fact, you may not have any great significance in the galaxy as a whole, but if you're fighting and killing for a cause, running important supplies etc. then you have relevance within your little sphere of influence. In fact NPCs do want you to double cross people, or do things that are important to them. I think a few small changes to make the NPCs more proactive in actively asking you to help them, pulling you in to local conflicts and making you take sides, would actually go a long way to making all the normal gameplay more engaging.

Traders should be offered much more lucrative runs if they're prepared to go to beleaguered systems and risk getting on the wrong side of powerful factions.. or offered access to more upgrades if they help those factions supply their far flung outposts which are struggling with rebels. All the basic systems already exist to make this happen - it even does to a certain extent, but it just doesn't seem very personal. It's not an agent sitting down in a bar with Han Solo or Malcom Reynolds and trying to convince him to take the job for the good of the children - it's as someone put it, Teletext saying you could do this if you wanted to, but I don't really care.