General / Off-Topic Books: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

[Darren Grey]

The Free eBooks thread is in danger of being swamped with book discussion of books that aren't even free! So we clearly need a new thread...

To open I'll say that I think Terry Brooks is the worst author I've ever read. I don't even know why I read so many of his books - I was very aware whilst reading that they were pretty awful. Having said that, his prequel to the Shannara series (First King of Shannara) was actually pretty decent.

 

[Susimetsa]

I agree with you wholeheartedly when it comes to Brooks. I read him in my teens mainly because I had not yet found any better authors to read.

On the other hand, I want to bring up the name of Guy Gavriel Kay and especially his Lions of Al-Rassan novel which is some of the best adult fantasy that I've ever read, rivaling even Tolkien.

 

[Selezen]

Well said.

Terry Brooks first Shannara novel was good. I enjoyed it (it was step to on the Road To Tolkein) but saw in later years how it was heavily influenced by previous works by other authors.

The rest of the books, however, were drek. As was said elsewhere, very formulaic.

My award for Most Disappointing Author probably goes to Terry Goodkind. The first five books of his Sword Of Truth series were really enjoyable. Book five started to get a bit idealistic, but was still good. From there, however, the author descended into madness and used the books as his soap box for his Objectivist views. Stopping your main plot to have the protagonist rant on for six pages about his political views isn't good. Stopping it every fifty or so pages to do the same thing over and over is definitely bad.

I read every one, just because I wanted to find out what happened to the main characters. Books 1-5 I read fully and carefully. Books 6+ I skim read just to see what happened. Disappointing.

 

[Allen Stroud]

I quite like Brooks. I've read worse.

My award for Most Disappointing Author probably goes to Terry Goodkind.

You lasted a while if you got to five books! Much of the plot idea is clearly borrowed from Brooks (Sword of Truth, Sword of Shannara, divided land from a magical barrier, etc...) and the last fifty pages of the first book are plainly a man trying to put his own personal sexual fantasies down on paper. I felt dirty after the read and hoped for better in the second book, but no, he repeats.

For worst book, I have a text I read aloud to students. You can find it here.

I have had more use out of my bought copy of that teaching people how not to write than any other book I own!

 

[Darren Grey]

Game of Thrones is pretty awful. Just putting that out there. Really loose plot, rambling writing style, lack of focus, terribly written women, a weird obsession with food... There are some nice imaginative bits, but it desperately needs better editing.

Philip K 's books are great - the epitome of weird/pseudo-mystical sci-fi - though many of his short stories concentrate too much on making political points and some of them are far too blunt.

 

[Alien]

Game of Thrones is pretty awful. Just putting that out there. Really loose plot, rambling writing style, lack of focus, terribly written women, a weird obsession with food... There are some nice imaginative bits, but it desperately needs better editing.

I just started reading the first book in the Game Of Thrones. Not decided yet if I think it's any good yet.

 

[Allen Stroud]

Game of Thrones is pretty awful. Just putting that out there.

Well, again, we'll agree to disagree on that one.

There's some things I'd change, but the scope is fantastic and the short chapter style very engaging after you get past the first few, which feel bitty and difficult owing to the chopping around. GRRM also does some great stuff with narrative expectations and structure, although the tricks wear a bit thin when you get to Feast for Crows.

For me a lesson on making a character memorable is in Tyrion Lannister's introduction. Its certainly one Joe Abercrombie followed when he introduced Glotka in "The Blade Itself". reading the two sections comparatively is very interesting.

 

[Susimetsa]

The first three books of the A Song of Ice and Fire are pretty readable, in my opinion, but the 4th and 5th books go all over the place and lose the focus completely. We get endless and mostly pointless descriptions of people travelling around and the plot basically grinds to a halt.

I'm aware of the reasons why these two books were written and how they were not in GRRM's original plans (he planned to skip ~17 years in the characters' lives, but realised that he had to write too many flashbacks to explain what had happened during those years - and those flashbacks turned into and swelled into books 4 and 5), but it does not excuse the fact that they were a very boring read. It remains to be seen how the TV adaptation manages to make them more interesting.

 

[Darren Grey]

To clarify I enjoyed the first book, disliked the second, and the third was a painful slog. I stopped after that as I heard the fourth was even worse.

 

[Allen Stroud]

To clarify I enjoyed the first book

The first book is called "Game of Thrones"...

Game of Thrones is pretty awful.

By which you mean the series "The Song of Ice and Fire" then? Lack of focus?

I felt it went a bit like this - GOT (A) Clash of Kings (damn filter) (A-) SOS (A) FFC (B-) DWD (B+)*

*Abbreviated titles of the books.

 

[Alien]

To clarify I enjoyed the first book, disliked the second, and the third was a painful slog. I stopped after that as I heard the fourth was even worse.

I'm tempted to stop reading GoT now after those comments and just enjoy the TV series. The thing is, I criticised Harry Potter for years, but had not actually read the books, so people who liked Harry Potter always used the "Ah but you haven't read the books" argument at me. Now I have read the books*, and it just made more critical of the whole Harry Pottter thing.

I like Game of Thrones, and if my enjoyment of GoT is going to be ruined by reading the books, I'd rather stop now.

* = I'd like to say, I didn't enjoy reading the books, I read them because it was a challenge, which the other person has still to complete his side of

 

[drew]

I quite like Brooks. I've read worse.!

I agree. I rather enjoyed his 'Magic Kingdom for sale' books. The lighter tone seemed to suit his style much better than the 'epic' Shannara series.

Cheers,

Drew.

 

[Selezen]

I agree. I rather enjoyed his 'Magic Kingdom for sale' books. The lighter tone seemed to suit his style much better than the 'epic' Shannara series.

Cheers,

Drew.

Completely agree - I was referring only to the Shannara books. I loved the Magic Kingdom books and still do.

 

[Selezen]

For worst book, I have a text I read aloud to students. You can find it here.

I have had more use out of my bought copy of that teaching people how not to write than any other book I own!

Interesting that the three reviews all give it five stars...

I do note, Mr Stroud, that you seem to have the opposite opinion on a lot of things. I'm not criticising (as you always back it up with salient points), merely pointing it out. Could this be something to do with the area of your teaching?

 

[Allen Stroud]

Interesting that the three reviews all give it five stars...

Yes and two of them share the same surname. Poor "G. Warren" seems overcome

"Without a doubt one of the greatest books I've ever read!"

I do note, Mr Stroud, that you seem to have the opposite opinion on a lot of things.

The opposite opinion to what?

 

[Sir.Tj]

I just started reading the first book in the Game Of Thrones. Not decided yet if I think it's any good yet.

Let us know what you think of it, I started watching the series on catchup and have just seen the end of series 3. I wouldn't mind reading the books next.

 

[psykokow]

Due to my severe allergy to printed paper and simulated text on digital medium... I have not read much since I read books on Ferry's to Dublin 5 years ago... I'd love to get back into it... but I just lack the ability to immerse into the storys...

Its like reding a text book... I know I will be disturbed unless I read in bed... which is 2am IF im lucky... and Im too tired to do it!! Roll on my 70's all the reading time I neeed and poor eyesight!!

 

[Selezen]

The opposite opinion to what?

I'm just remarking that most often, when forum member x declares a like for some form of fiction, then you don't like it and vice-versa.

I don't mean anything by it (defensive mode), I just wondered if there's a reason for it. Does lecturing in fiction give you a more in-depth viewpoint to a book? My thought on the phenomenon is that us "general readers" read a book and focus on the overall impression that the book gives us - bad or weak plot is made up for by interesting characters, or bad characterisation is made up for by exciting storytelling. As a lecturer, you have to Study the material and its components in more depth, so the flaws stand out more and thus you "enjoy" it on a different level.

All of which would, I suspect, influence you as a writer and tighten your focus on each element, hence why Wisimir is so good...

 

[DigitalDuck]

I don't mean anything by it (defensive mode), I just wondered if there's a reason for it. Does lecturing in fiction give you a more in-depth viewpoint to a book? My thought on the phenomenon is that us "general readers" read a book and focus on the overall impression that the book gives us - bad or weak plot is made up for by interesting characters, or bad characterisation is made up for by exciting storytelling. As a lecturer, you have to Study the material and its components in more depth, so the flaws stand out more and thus you "enjoy" it on a different level.

I've always wondered why my taste in games very rarely matches with anyone else's, and I think it might be for similar reasons. But I've never actually thought about it like that before...

 

[Allen Stroud]

I'm just remarking that most often, when forum member x declares a like for some form of fiction, then you don't like it and vice-versa.

Ah, I think you might be taking your data from too small a sample here... I'm sure we'll all find books we agree on in terms of quality and lack there of with a further discussion.

I don't think I'm particularly more insightful than the next person, certainly wouldn't claim to be. However, if you were interested in how I read, I'd agree I do concentrate on breaking down aspects of writing and have done more and more during my career. By that I mean, I do spend a lot of time looking at the specific way some bits are written and have to break down the whys and wherefores of that. I read less for relaxation and switching off as it were than I guess most people do. For a book to disarm my critical ear, it does have to get my trust. Terry Brooks failed that test on about Book 10... But then, I'd probably read the others before the critical instincts had taken over...

I had a lecturer in Communication Studies at College who taught us how to analyse Film and TV. He did say if we took the lessons onboard right, we wouldn't watch things in the same way again. I did struggle for a bit after that to 'switch off', but these days its not so bad with the visual medium.

With Wisimir, well, you folks are the judge of the good or bad of it, but thanks, really does mean a lot to me when people say they enjoyed the read. After all, that's what we write these things for. I guess the book is the sum of the influences and critiques I'd had beforehand. I would certainly say it transformed my confidence in what I could do through the writing process and I wouldn't be taking on Elite: Lave Revolution without it.