Backer insurance change discussion: Redux

[Mad Matt]

Personally I'm not a fan of P2W features. I think they should never have done the insurance discounts in the first place. But it's also doesn't seem right to change it now.

That's a perfectly valid view.

Once an insurance discount decision has been settled upon, advertised as a selling point, and then implemented in a particular way throughout development, changing the way it is implemented mere hours before release does strike as a teensy bit disingenuous.

 

[Bain]

This is not a big deal. Move on and enjoy the game.

 

[Valethar]

That's a perfectly valid view.

Once an insurance discount decision has been settled upon, advertised as a selling point, and then implemented in a particular way throughout development, changing the way it is implemented mere hours before release does strike as a teensy bit disingenuous.

Unless you're EA, then it's business as usual.

Wonder how much they chipped in on the IPO.

 

[Madlib]

This is not a big deal. Move on and enjoy the game.

Then if it's not a big deal to you...move on and enjoy the game.

 

[ste]

Actually it does.

"The context is that there is an automatic insurance premium applied to all sales."

Nowhere does it say we would get 25% insurance discount off absolutely everything. People might have assumed it, expected it, wanted it, and because we did during testing is meaningless, when arguably it could have been 100% for testing purposes.

Originally we were suppose to pay insurance premiums, not just get it automatically, and those that kept dying would pay higher premiums. I dont know if that idea was scrapped.

It seems as if for the full game we get auto insurance and backers get 25% discount on the ship, not including any added extras they may of stuck on along the way.

We got a nice perk, advantage, whatever you want to call it, but people still arent happy and think it should be bigger more extreme.

Personally I think we should not have been offered anything, but they did, and we got it. A perk.

 

[Sallen]

It's not about the privileges themselves, it's about not changing a selling point after the sale is done.

 

[Toumal]

Guys, frankly i think they realized the insurance benefit was too excessive.

Also afaik your car insurance does not cover aftermarket items you install in it. (I may be wrong about this)

 

[Arindor]

tbh after all this lying Fd have done,i'm concerned about the lifetime expansion we bought into.
Are they going to swindle us out of that as well now,come out with some sort of excuse so we don't fully get what we bought into.

This, for me, is my greatest fear. I bought it at PB and gave my money so that FD could build ED and I could test it. With all bad PR recently (ship insurance, offline), I wouldn't be surprised if FD renege on everything else they promised.

 

[Seboss]

I wouldn't mind a word of explanation from FD on this subject. I suspect the bonus became way bigger than what they initially expected, with a decent FSD module costing as much as five times the price of the hull.
But when you advertise it numerous times in newsletters and interviews as a part of the product, it's not very fair to change the deal like this, is it?

 

[Madlib]

Nowhere does it say we would get 25% insurance discount off absolutely everything. People might have assumed it, expected it, wanted it, and because we did during testing is meaningless, when arguably it could have been 100% for testing purposes.

Originally we were suppose to pay insurance premiums, not just get it automatically, and those that kept dying would pay higher premiums. I dont know if that idea was scrapped.

It seems as if for the full game we get auto insurance and backers get 25% discount on the ship, not including any added extras they may of stuck on along the way.

We got a nice perk, advantage, whatever you want to call it, but people still arent happy and think it should be bigger more extreme.

Personally I think we should not have been offered anything, but they did, and we got it. A perk.

Nope, they think it was as it should have been before this change.

 

[Valethar]

Also afaik your car insurance does not cover aftermarket items you install in it. (I may be wrong about this)

Unless they specify that it does.

Hello Backers!

Here is the death penalty rules set that we've agreed on, following extensive debate, both in the team and on the forum. I'd like to thank everyone for their involvement! This thread will stay here for a few days, then be moved to the archives section.


Death Penalty Rules

• When a commander's ship receives catastrophic hull damage (breaks apart) or becomes incapable of supporting life, the commander automatically escapes via an ever-present, indestructible escape pod
• Depending on the circumstances the following effects can occur:
  • In situations where the ship receives an excessive amount of damage in one attack, all cargo inside is destroyed and the hull is obliterated
  • In situations where a ship has suffered catastrophic but not excessive damage, a percentage of the cargo inside is spilt out and the hull remains
  • Cargo can be flagged as “fragile” – these are always destroyed and never ejected, allowing us to prevent unwanted multiplication of rare cargo
  • Event/mission specific cargo can be destroyed or ejected based on mission requirements
    • Event/mission cargo can have ship module requirements to prevent unwanted outcomes (e.g. an important VIP might only accept a ride in a ship that had cabins featuring automatic escape capsules)
• The escape pod transports the commander back to the last station that they docked at
• Commanders losing a ship can accrue an excess fee which must be paid straight away
  • Starter ships with starting equipment have no excess fee
  • The excess fee is a percentage of the ship’s total value (including equipment)
    • Any active criminal bounty is transferred to the excess fee
  • If the commander owns multiple ships they can choose to forgo a replacement ship and avoid the payment, choosing to pilot another ship they own
    • Any active criminal bounty must still be paid
  • If the commander cannot afford the excess fee and has no other ships they must use a creditor to pay the fee amount
  • Once the excess fee has been paid the commander is given a replacement ship and equipment identical to the load out when the ship was docked (the context is that there is an automatic insurance premium applied to all sales)

 

[Arkku]

The finances UI panel lists "ship insurance" at 96%, and "cargo insurance" at 0%. Nowhere does it say "module insurance" 95% - clearly the insurance package called "ship insurance" is meant to cover the modules as well. Perhaps they will add this change to correct the in-game terminology to match the reinterpreted rules, but until then the argument that this was always intended doesn't work.

In practice the total insurance discount for me has dropped from 25% to 2.5%, i.e., to a completely negligible amount. Now, like I've said before, I backed the game before any such benefit was announced, and would have been just fine if there had never been any insurance discount. But it was promised, and I remember that it was listed as one of the key benefits when they were advertising beta/gamma access recently. So the issue is going back on those promises and that advertising, not the insurance itself.

 

[Akelig von Trashcan]

Someone else said it best. When you buy "car insurance" on a car, you insure the whole car, chassis and components together. Some drunk totals it, you don't have to shell out extra for your tires or your radio or your fuel pump. So unless this fine print was made public before people bought it, they have every right to expect their "ship insurance" to cover their ship, its equipped engine, thrusters, sensors, etc. and for a discount to said "ship insurance" to cover the same.

You're totally wrong. If I tune a car, put all extra stuff on it, the insurance will NEVER pay for that. Only the day price of the car.
This complete thread is nearly trolling FD about nothing .

 

[Aslinkal]

Alot of people here dont understand that there are folks who paid extra bucks/quids just to get the insurance feature. In the end they ended up getting just half a piece of what they were promised.

 

[Elriuhilu]

I think the issue is not so much the insurance itself (e.g., I backed the game before any such promise was made), but rather taking away something that was promised. So to go with the GI Joe analogy, it's like they promised early buyers could choose the hair colour, then right before shipping they suddenly change it to only being able to choose the pubic hair colour, and that's supposed to be keeping the promise because technically it's hair.

I get what you mean, I just don't think that this is an issue that deserves this much discussion.
To extend the GI Joe thing further, to me it's like they said:
"hey, you get a GI Joe,"
and I say "cool." Then later they say:
"we've decided you can choose his hair colour," to which I say "oh, nice."
Even later, they come back and say:
"actually, you only get to choose his pubic hair colour,"
my response would be "that's a shame, I was really looking forward to choosing his hair colour. Never mind, I still get to have a GI Joe."

I'd only be upset if they said "Hey, we're giving you a GI Joe," and then later handed me a My Little Pony or something.

 

[aDuz]

Small little changes here n there, gently gearing up to open the buy in-game credits for real money store

 

[Andromalius]

Let me get this straight.....

FD ~ no wipe on the 16 cause all is fine and dandy they will deal "individually" with the "few" exploiters.

I mean, you're still believing what FD is saying after them coming back on their words three times and the manner they did ? Magic. Pure magic.

 

[Toumal]

Unless they specify that it does.

Fair point. I can see how changing this grinds people's gears. I personally still don't mind because either way i am playing the game. It's not like i get "less game" because of a game rule change.

 

[Aslinkal]

I get what you mean, I just don't think that this is an issue that deserves this much discussion.
To extend the GI Joe thing further, to me it's like they said:
"hey, you get a GI Joe,"
and I say "cool." Then later they say:
"we've decided you can choose his hair colour," to which I say "oh, nice."
Even later, they come back and say:
"actually, you only get to choose his pubic hair colour,"
my response would be "that's a shame, I was really looking forward to choosing his hair colour. Never mind, I still get to have a GI Joe."

I'd only be upset if they said "Hey, we're giving you a GI Joe," and then later handed me a My Little Pony or something.

It becomes real serious when you trick people with their money.

 

[MikeB]

Small little changes here n there, gently gearing up to open the buy in-game credits for real money store

That's the real fear...