Worth a rant.

It stops being a matter of skill when my guns do three imaginary bars of damage and the enemy has a percentage of hull left.
NPCs simply should not steal bounties as they are not players, and competing with them for said kills leads to situations where you end up trying too hard and shooting someone who is shooting the very same target. That design decision is going to cost you players.

I disagree with your first two points.

Timing your weapons certainly involves skill and NPCs don't know they aren't people, nor should they.


Without this type of reward there is no reason for people ( and forces them apart ) because it comes down to luck.

Also this would get rid of the players who would just run around tagging a target and running off to the next one.

It's still not luck, and there is no need for the game to get rid of players who do what you describe because anyone annoyed by what they are doing can just shoot them down or go somewhere else.

In the game, sometimes NPCs fly right into the line of fire from angles you simply don't have enough time to react, like from the "bottom" of your view obscured by the whole cockpit. Do you suggest I should start training my reaction time to take it down to bot-levels? Milliseconds? What about turrets you don't have that much control of, fire-wise? And what if turrets shoot 90 degrees north where I can't see and NPC gets in line of fire up there? Is it my fault too?

Yes, you seem to lack situational awareness and this is your fault.

Do not engage hostiles where bystanders can easily place themselves in harms way and manage your turrets better. People you don't want to shoot around? Put the turrets on forward fire, or set them to a different fire group.

Lets see how happy your face is when youve had 6bountys in a row... Stolen..?

Out of the well over two-thousand bounties I've taken throughout beta, gamma, and release, I have had maybe a dozen "stolen" by NPCs.

Re. Solution 2 - that may be so, but it completely negates teamwork and co-op gameplay, as there is no way to share the spoils. I teamed up with someone for the first time last night hunting bounties, and in the heat of the battle it's very difficult to organise who takes the killing shot, in larger teams, especially with people you don't know, it would be impossible and you would be competing with others on your side.

It's not hard to get a system setup so people can take turns getting the killing shot. If stuff is popping so fast that it comes down to luck, you should probably split up or look for bigger targets anyway.

Pain in the ass when you're raining death on someone at the rate of 5 hits per second, then someone comes in and shoots one rocket.
Yay, it didn't matter that you grinded it's shields and hull for 10 minutes, the 100k is now the guys or NPCs that shot one rocket.

Yes, it's annoying, however there are numerous counters.

For NPCs that take a protracted time to kill (e.g. Anaconda) it's best to pull them away from other NPCs.

Regarding other players, enforce bounty etiquette by killing those that don't heed it. Most CMDRs don't need help against most NPCs, and firing on their mark unless that CMDR is obviously losing the fight is generally just rude.
 
I picked up an 85k bounty in my barely upgraded cobra yesterday by watching as a pair of NPC anaconda's duked it out with each other, waiting till the security ship had stripped off the pirate's shield, then darting in to take out the pirate's power unit.

Just have to be aware of the way things work, and adapt.

As all old eve players will have heard before : adapt or die
 
I picked up an 85k bounty in my barely upgraded cobra yesterday by watching as a pair of NPC anaconda's duked it out with each other, waiting till the security ship had stripped off the pirate's shield, then darting in to take out the pirate's power unit.

Just have to be aware of the way things work, and adapt.

As all old eve players will have heard before : adapt or die

Ahh, fellow eve player.
5 years zerosec before caps. rus/m0o/gh-sc/evol.
Trust me, i adapt when the mechanics are precise rather than guess work.
 
Frontier are no doubt aware of the feelings of some players regarding "friendly" fire - they could have made changes if they wished to do so. The fact that they have not may be quite telling. From what I have read, friendly fire will probably be switched off in wings when they are introduced.

I would be tremendously surprised if that were the case. Frontier have never given a hint of it, and it would be utterly counter to their long standing policy on friendly fire.

If you get hit in the head by a bullet, it doesn't matter if you were shot by the pirate you were fighting, or the person you were fighting alongside. You're still just as dead.


The Devs' stance on last shot gets the bounty is clear - they want bounty hunting to be adversarial. However in a recent post by Sandro, it has been made clear that when the wing mechanic is introduced then wing members will share the bounty. This still leaves the situation where only one player / wing will get the bounty, regardless of how many players / wings are involved in the attack.

Quite right, just as in the real world, when bounties were posted (or are in some less developed parts of the world) the bounty is paid to the actual person that claims it. Any sharing is up to them post facto.

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Ahh, fellow eve player.
5 years zerosec before caps. rus/m0o/gh-sc/evol.
Trust me, i adapt when the mechanics are precise rather than guess work.

:)

BoB/IT/Divinity for me

The point here is the mechanics here are precise, it's not guesswork. We know how the system is supposed to work, and it does work as intended.
 
:)

BoB/IT/Divinity for me

The point here is the mechanics here are precise, it's not guesswork. We know how the system is supposed to work, and it does work as intended.

The trouble begins and ends with the fact that multiple kill hits on the same target are a crapshoot, basically that sweet spot between 1% and 0% takes enough time for multiple ships to land hits and the decision is made serverside, and in many cases it's one player versus multiple server-instanced npcs. npcs who have no latency and who shoot at their leisure without needing to worry about not hitting anyone else.
 
So basically it would be fine if police officers were pursuing bandits and one of them would accidentally shoot the other one because he/she got into the line of fire? You are responsible for any shot you make so you are responsible for not hitting innocent or friendly.

Your solution would ruin the game for a lot of people including myself. It is a completion to deliver the killing blow that makes the game interesting. There can be only one winner.

Totally agree. Sharing bounties is just ridiculous. Would make things easy. People just need to get better rather than cry out for the game to be easier. I was in a fight earlier there were 3 wanted ships 1 SA ship and me. I took all 3 kills. Timing and skill is everything.
 
Got interdicted by a wanted Cobra in my entrylevel Sidewinder. Managed to pound him to 50% before 'help' arrived in the form of security vipers. One stray shot from my puny pulse laser bounced on the shield of a copper and voila, I'm the bad guy. Result bounty fine + repairs. MENU--> Options --> Clear save.

Lesson learned: always bail out when sucidal security turns up and NEVER help em out.

My only gripe in an otherwise beautiful addictive game.
 
(...)
Yes, you seem to lack situational awareness and this is your fault.

Do not engage hostiles where bystanders can easily place themselves in harms way and manage your turrets better. People you don't want to shoot around? Put the turrets on forward fire, or set them to a different fire group.
(...)

I'll repeat: OP's request is not to render NPC not capable of responding to friendly fire, but to alter their behavior to send a warning before opening fire when accidental ff damage occurs.
I can't stress that part enough and yet people just ignore it, going straight for "you can't play this game, it's your fault" failed logic.

Yes, in the middle of a fight I tend to lose orientation and situational awereness, that is something I can work on.
That doesn't change the fact NPC's 0-1 FF approach is wrong.
 
I would be tremendously surprised if that were the case. Frontier have never given a hint of it, and it would be utterly counter to their long standing policy on friendly fire.

If you get hit in the head by a bullet, it doesn't matter if you were shot by the pirate you were fighting, or the person you were fighting alongside. You're still just as dead.

Pretty sure he meant that bounties for friendly fire would be switched off in a wing - the bullet would still hurt, you'd just not be punished for it.
 
When it's happened to me, and it's only happened twice, it's because a fed has flown into my line of fire. Last night I was engaging a Cobra at a resource extraction site. Cobra was <500m away and I was finishiong it off with my beams as there were 6 feds about and I didn't want a stray shot from the MCs to hit them. A fed then boosts right through my beams, I get 200Cr fine, and wanted status. Six green feds turn red and turn on me. Had to find another system with a platform to pay the bounty as I was wanted in every fed system.

I fail too see how it's a hostile act or my responsibility if someone flies into your line of fire, it's simple common sense not to and a fix is needed. A friendly fire warning from the feds for a single transgression would be a start, with a lethal response for the second transgression.

Rant 1: Don't shoot friendlies. That is your responsibility.
 
I'll repeat: OP's request is not to render NPC not capable of responding to friendly fire, but to alter their behavior to send a warning before opening fire when accidental ff damage occurs.
I can't stress that part enough and yet people just ignore it, going straight for "you can't play this game, it's your fault" failed logic.

Yes, in the middle of a fight I tend to lose orientation and situational awereness, that is something I can work on.
That doesn't change the fact NPC's 0-1 FF approach is wrong.

The argument is lost. The majority's response seems to be "git gud nub".
 
Oh God. Eve Pilots.

Let this game not descend into the unholy mess of eve.

Im not overly keen on the idea of shooting away at a target for a few minutes and then having the bounty stolen in the last shot, but hey, I'll live with it and find a way to exploit it myself :)
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Pretty sure he meant that bounties for friendly fire would be switched off in a wing - the bullet would still hurt, you'd just not be punished for it.

You're right - I did - but didn't express it clearly enough.

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I'll repeat: OP's request is not to render NPC not capable of responding to friendly fire, but to alter their behavior to send a warning before opening fire when accidental ff damage occurs.
I can't stress that part enough and yet people just ignore it, going straight for "you can't play this game, it's your fault" failed logic.

Yes, in the middle of a fight I tend to lose orientation and situational awereness, that is something I can work on.
That doesn't change the fact NPC's 0-1 FF approach is wrong.

If stray shots by players on NPCs are to be in some way forgiven (subject to a rule-set), how many stray shots should be able to hit a player's ship before they have the right to retaliate?
 
If stray shots by players on NPCs are to be in some way forgiven (subject to a rule-set), how many stray shots should be able to hit a player's ship before they have the right to retaliate?

This might work?
If a player hits a non-hostile npc/player while engaged in combat with another npc/player which the player is targeting set a short clientside timer allowing for one or two more hits before registering it as an act of aggression.
 
Got interdicted by a wanted Cobra in my entrylevel Sidewinder. Managed to pound him to 50% before 'help' arrived in the form of security vipers. One stray shot from my puny pulse laser bounced on the shield of a copper and voila, I'm the bad guy. Result bounty fine + repairs. MENU--> Options --> Clear save.

Lesson learned: always bail out when sucidal security turns up and NEVER help em out.

My only gripe in an otherwise beautiful addictive game.
Go to the right panel. Got to the functions tab. Turn "Report crimes against me" to off. No more cops trying to "help".
 
Exploiting solution 1:
If you equip your ship with heavy weapons, e.g. rail guns, cannons you can one shot some of the enemies. Then you only need to engage in combat with one of the enemies, which would give you a free pass to destroy any other ship.

Regarding solution 2:
it is a design decision. Yesterday I was delivering a killing blow in about 90-95% of cases in the war zone. Change you tactics so that your shot would be the killing one. It has always required some skill to hit the enemy at the right time to deliver a killing blow.

Solution to exploiting solution 1: This should only apply to low power weapons. Anyone using high powered rail guns and plasma accelerators etc should be more aware of their situation. But someone using low powered pulses and gattlings, if they do less than 5% shield damage (for example) should get a warning.

Also regarding solution 2: I think wings is meant to be fixing this too.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
This might work?

It could be exploited by players selecting another of their group as a target and taking potshots at random ships.

One possibility that springs to mind - if both the player and the inadvertent target are targeting the same ship it could be considered likely that they would not deliberately hit each other (as they would appear to have common cause). However, this could also be exploited by one bounty hunter deliberately hitting another while they are both targeting a third ship.

The main problem with dealing with friendly fire is that the game cannot possibly determine player intent - and therefore cannot determine whether a shot hitting a ship was deliberate or not.
 
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