Patch Notes Update Elite: Dangerous 1.02 change log

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Same here, and I'm sure there are many more who will find this 'rare' solution a good thing - what's the fun in hanging around near stations anyway.. make the rare goods rare and fun to seek out

Agreed, but i'd like the dev's would stop talking about it and actually really come up with a good rare system instead of this abomination.
There is and was nothing RARE about the old and new system in the first place.. everything is predictable. and was even in the last patch easily exploitable by using a macros to fill your hold each night.

This is most likely why they removed it.. to prevent overnight hold fills / semi AFK hold fills.
This was VERY easy to foresee with a predictable system.

Now if you would make players have nuggets of rares spawning within a radius of 50-100 ly of the player at random with sufficient quantities (100-500, common - seldom).
These can be individual nuggets.. Amount of personal nuggets can be limited to 30 or so around you .. newest in , oldest out.
 
I don't agree. I can make 500k per run in my cobra in about 45 mins. I made enough in one game session to buy a ASP. Without one fight or interdiction. Which is fine. But, other activities in the game do not pay as well. So if rare trading will be this lucrative, then every other profession needs a huge buff. Or they nerf that one trade item and make small buffs to everything else. Which is what it seems like they are doing.

Different Careers do not need to get the same payment or rewards, Some one who runs a shop does not get paid the same as a Policeman or truck driver do they, same in game not all professions are equal, same as in real life.
 
I did tend to think that sitting around in a station waiting for commodities to respawn isn't really playing the game as intended. I guess this addressees that at least.

What else is there to do? No other way to make a reasonable amount of money in this game. By "reasonable", I mean playing the game so we can afford to upgrade and maintain a bigger ship and be able to explore other aspects of the game. See also https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=79175&p=1285188&viewfull=1#post1285188.
 
The idea of spending 2 hours searching for a needle in a 50-100LY haystack really doesn't sound fun.
The idea is you don't look for them .. you accidently find them and hit big.. :)

They become a usefull extra..
Now they are just nothing but or worthless or gamebreaking or exploitable
 
In general an increased amount of clarification from the devs would be.. appreciated to say the least.

Indeed. I think the majority of the vets (beta/backers) were having a ball trading rares. I know I was. This huge backlash I think is coming from a lack of scaling in the game. Rare trading was the only way to maintain a sustainable income that made sense with the expensive ships. The content does not scale with better and more expensive ships. You don't make any more money doing bounty hunting or missions in an Asp vs. a Cobra despite the massive difference in upkeep costs and risk from insurance premiums. Right now there is 0 incentive (gameplay mechanic-wise) for flying the bigger ships. The low-mid tier progression is wonderful but once you reach the bigger stuff it's almost as if they just haven't thought that far ahead yet.
 
The idea is you don't look for them .. you accidently find them and hit big.. :)

They become a usefull extra..
Now they are just nothing but or worthless or gamebreaking or exploitable

Long distance missions would do a better job now then rare goods would.
 
Well I just thought I'd try and do some of this rare trading, bought as much as I could over an hour in Zeezzste (18t) then trekked all the way back to around Aiabiko. Wasnt far enough so I chugged around with the map and now I'm something like 80Ly away and cant go any further in this direction and still find a manned system. Cargo is worth 4k here rather than the gal ave of 8k (bought for 300).

Maybe its just me and my playstyle but of all the time I've played during beta, gamma and like two days of release this is far and away the LEAST profitable action I've done.

I had a little conversation with myself as I sat around some random main sequence star putting along with my fuel crawling up;

Internal Voice 1: Hey man, we need some creds, lets trade in these rare trade items, I hear you can make a FORTUNE!
Internal Voice 2: Nah mate, lets just mine some coal or deliver some letters. We'll make it just as quick.
 
Indeed. I think the majority of the vets (beta/backers) were having a ball trading rares. I know I was. This huge backlash I think is coming from a lack of scaling in the game. Rare trading was the only way to maintain a sustainable income that made sense with the expensive ships. The content does not scale with better and more expensive ships. You don't make any more money doing bounty hunting or missions in an Asp vs. a Cobra despite the massive difference in upkeep costs and risk from insurance premiums. Right now there is 0 incentive (gameplay mechanic-wise) for flying the bigger ships. The low-mid tier progression is wonderful but once you reach the bigger stuff it's almost as if they just haven't thought that far ahead yet.

Yeah, I mean.. I LOVE my asp, but I've sort of had to buy a viper to use for earning combat cr to afford upgrading my asp because well... getting a dent in the asp sets you back 10 bounties'ish.
 
I did tend to think that sitting around in a station waiting for commodities to respawn isn't really playing the game as intended. I guess this addressees that at least.
Killing the rare respawn as a way of stopping people hanging around in stations to fill their holds is a bit like a lame gag from the days of Soviet Russia.

"Comrades! We have noticed many citizens having to queue for hours to buy bread and milk. Our glorious leader has decided to remove this terrible burden from the shoulders of the people by instructing all shops to cease stocking bread and milk!"
 
Killing the rare respawn as a way of stopping people hanging around in stations to fill their holds is a bit like a lame gag from the days of Soviet Russia.

"Comrades! We have noticed many citizens having to queue for hours to buy bread and milk. Our glorious leader has decided to remove this terrible burden from the shoulders of the people by instructing all shops to cease stocking bread and milk!"


The rare system was poorly thought through from the start mind you :)
 
Makes it fair so everybody can get some rather than a few getting it all, common sense really, you are being rationed, means not a dew hogging it all.

The choice of words in the patch notes is a bit miss-leading. The wording would suggest that previously the supply of rares at a station behaved like normal items, in that everyone at that station had access to the same stock level and if one person bought it all, no-one else could. That was the initial way that rares worked, but it was changed in gamma so that you have a supply amount that was unique to each person.

Before the latest patch, if a station showed a supply of 15, then that stock was purely for you and no-one else could access it. You could wait for re-stock ticks, every 10 minutes, and slowly fill up your cargo bay over however long it took to fill - in some cases it took several hours.

This patch, although worded like the gamma patch, has actually limited the total amount that a station will sell you. Once you buy the amount (eg 10 tonnes seems to be the limit of Bast Snake Gin, I have found after some buy/sell experiments) the station won't sell you anymore. If doesn't matter how long you wait, you're capped out. It's basically a "10 items per customer" situation. If you sell the items back to the station, on the next tick the supply goes up, but it will never sell you more than a total of 10 (for Bast at least). You have to sell your stock before you can buy some more.

Rares used to be an alternative to normal trades in that you made one really long trade-route instead of multiple small routes. The time it took to fill your hold plus travel 150+ly got you a vaguely similar profit/hour as normal trading (early gamma rare trading aside). It was just a different usage of your time and effort.
 
So there is clearly an income/hour cap that is being enforced in this game. I thought it was something like ~1Mil and hour for a skilled player (I think that is what I was making just yesterday with rares and other random stuff). I honestly thought that was reasonable... I have a 35Mil Cr Asp, if I lose it, it's 1.5h of work to re-make what I lost to insurance. If I want the highest end ship (the Anaconda), it will take me ~150 hours JUST FOR THE HULL of the ship. Think another ~150 hours minimum to start kitting it. 300 hours to attain a top-tier ship in the game after you attain a mid tier ship which takes probably around 100 hours on its own. Is that not reasonable? 400h from when you start in a sidey... How much time do the Devs expect us to sink to get the top tier ships? It seems like with another rare nerf (instead of buffing the income from trading or bounty hunting or exploring) it is expected to take considerably longer to attain the top tier ships.

Frankly, expecting any more than 400-500 hours is unspeakably unrealistic. It's already too much. Way too much.

Any clarification from the FDevs would be very helpful.
Given how reticent they were during Beta/Gamma to divulge actual design goals and/or hard caps, I will draw this line in the sand:

<IMHO>
Frontier Developments will NEVER, EVER tell the players what these caps are for temporal income rates. Further, they'll never even tell us what their design goals are for profit per ton max, nor overall progression curves. It's far too much information that players could actually use to make informed decisions about their gameplay.

Keeping it "mysterious" allows them to fleece more sheep. Oh yes... "Blaze your own trail" ! It'll take you years to get that ship, but by all means, grind away, little naive minions.
</IMHO>

The only shoe left to drop is adding ships directly into the cash shop. Oh, you don't want to spend years of time?
Pay us £50 and get that Python today! :mad:
 
The underlying problem is two-fold.

1. With all the recent nerfs it is taking away the enjoyment of trading for many.
2. The game does NOT upscale with the ship.

What's the point of 10k missions when you're flying a 60 million credit ship?

Rares sounded good on paper but it still took hours to get and jumping across the galaxy to sell them. Trading is no longer enough to maintain or upgrade large ships. If a single upgrade costs 15 million on bigger ships and all you're being offer is a 500cr/ton trade run or a 10k mission or two how do you afford, in the game as it stands now, to upgrade or maintain them?

The Devs seem to be nerfing the bejesus out of the game which moderately affects smaller ships but completely hammers the larger ships when nothing scales.

Should the devs just remove anything bigger than an ASP to balance it out?
 
Shield bank BUGS

I have outfitted my Cobra with two shield banks A2 and C4. After using assigned button the charge is used from both banks. So there should be a limit to 1 bank per ship or system should deplete them one after the other.

Another bug is that B4 shield bank has 11 charges while A4 has only 7.

Ticketed.
 
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