Patch Notes Update Elite: Dangerous 1.02 change log

[Conehead]

It can be which is why I mix it up with some exploration (to help cover fuel costs) and passing through the off anarchy to take on any pirates foolish enough to try their luck

I'm simply providing my personal example - I've stated that there is an issue that is being fixed. Once that's in then we can re-examine.

Michael

That means, when the AI trading is fixed, the first figure (standard trading of about 500.000cr/h) will be even increased, compared to the second figure (rare-goods trading as by yesterday with about 550.000cr/h)?
If so, then there is even less reason for the actual change.

Or did I misunderstood that????

 

[knowles2]

Your dismissing the problem. He said that there is no viable, fun, solution to mid/level (asp/type6) progression and up.

You answered by telling him then to move to a small ship.

The root of the problem is that to get beyond small ships your time investment is so long and filled with boredom that people wont do it. Its the BOREDOM that has people worried, not the total time investment. As I have said before, there is no viable way to progression that allows you to progress, WHILE being fun. Regular commodity trading is NOT FUN, REWARDING, or anything other but artificially induced teidum.

But they don't have to progress to the bigger ships, small ships are great in F. Sure perhaps one day you will get that anaconda you always dream off but getting one should be a challenge and a bit of luck. An there more things to do that just trade, if you don't like trading, do the missions, if you don't like the missions do mining, if you don't like mining, missions or trading, then choose the star on the night and fly till morning, just remember to take a fuel scoop with you.

 

[Ericlas]

When scarcity comes into play there are two ways that it can be handled by a company. They can either sell all the product they can to a few customers, or they can ration out the product so that more customers are served. Currently, there is a problem with ammunition in the US market. The company I worked for sold out, and continued to sell out, to large buyers. The smaller buyers never got a chance. So they limited sales to stretch the supply. They could have raised their prices exorbitantly and achieved a different result, i.e. only the wealthiest of customers could afford the product. So, there are many ways to handle the situation of scarcity. All of them legitimate, but someone gets 'hurt' by the method.

But there is no scarcity here, as every player WILL get his amount.
Increase the playerbase and the stock overall will increase, up to a point that it would be indefinetly high.
Since this is the 2nd nerf of this item-category in 3 weeks, please, think about it for a second, what the real reason behind this decision is.

 

[Tinman]

As in that will break the servers because the code is that imbedded or it is a core part of your vision of how the game is to be played?

Because there are several ten thousand (maybe even 100.000) settled systems in the game and there is no way the player base on their own would be able to supply all these worlds with what they need. If they don't get what they need they start to starve on those resources and all the systems will collapse...

Even if the player base would try to do it on their own that would mean that all of us would NEED to spread out across all these systems to take care of the trade runs never seeing one another...and since the AI have been killed off we wouldn't see any other ships either.

Doesn't sound like a fun game too me...

(Pretty much what Michael already wrote above while I typed this out on my phone. )

 

[mordante]

I think the Developers have the right idea here. The rare trade thing was very exploitable and its a bit silly for people to be trading themselves up to the biggest ships in a single weekend of play. I started with nothing but the Free-Eagle on Wednesday - its now Thursday evening and I've got a mostly upgraded Cobra + Lakon6 with a couple of mil in the bank for insurance purely on the Eranin to Any Na (whiskey / coffee) run. But it was very boring for all the time sitting in the station and playing something else! Game needs many alternative and interesting ways to make money but the players shouldn't get fixated on rushing to the end-game.

I just had my favorite experience in the game so far on my first big adventure with bounty hunting a pirate lord target - have spent an hour checking out systems, investigating sensor spots, looting stolen cargo while looking for this named target. (Finally got a sidewinder npc telling me where the guy is) So I go to the system start searching and find eventually a fight in progress between an Anaconda and an Asp. I get all excited but its not the right target - the Anaconda is clean but the ASP is wanted - so I decide to be cheeky and kill steal this npc on npc action and wait till the ASP is low and swoop in and give it all four guns while cutting up the Anaconda. And it works! 25,000 bounty for nothing! (apart from wear and tear from several emergency stops, some ammo, fuel etc) but it still makes me 20,000K! profit for an hours worth of hunting and a dock out to restock.

Sure, its pathetic income compared to the 6m or so I made from the rare runs - but its a lot more fun. (Now I just have to go out and find the proper target).

Now last point about people worrying about being able to sustain the expensive ships. I think you should look to the example of what happened to Eve Online where there is no real upkeep cost to anything compared to pretty easy and regular income. Eventually the game got ruined by loss meaning virtually nothing. It became dominated by rich players with unlimited top end ships that made a farce of game balance.

Frontier Devs must be aware of this risk and setting up the game so the playstyle you choose impacts the kind of ship you can fly and upkeep is sensible. If they balanced the economy so every was in an anaconda in a week then it would be kind of ridiculous and would ruin a lot of low end tramp steamer tinkering gameplay for people in the long term.

Its really not a race.

I just hope Frontier can keep adding more low-end content for casual players so people don't feel funneled towards bigger ships that take a huge investment to keep running.

 

[Draxinusom]

The background simulation is the core of the game. It decides what's happening and where. It determines mission, factions and prices. And yes it is part of the core vision for the game.

If this is all driven by one core system/entity, then is it reasonable to declare it a bug when I repeatedly get missions "Fetch me N of commodity X please, I'll give you $$$ credits" where the requested commodity can be purchased at the very same station I'm getting offered this mission?

Or should I just treat it as a nice free bonus for checking the bb?

 

[MJC]

Dear Michael,

thank you very much to take your time to post on the forums. You must be a very busy man...

Although I am disapointed about the rare comodities being nerfed that is not the main problem. The main problem is the lack of fun and fulfiling things to do. I have sat in a station clicking on buy every 10 minutes while reading the forums and being on teamspeak with FGE guys. 2 runs a day 3 million cr. 3 hours playing. I felt that was a reasonable reward.
But never mind that, what else could I do?

Exploration - not immersive. Fly from a to be and wait for 10 sec. Small reward. No ability to discover wormholes or links to other systems. No sense of scale when near supergiants. Zulu Romeo has already been to galactic core in Gamma, no point in me going there (Micheal you should really give Zulu a mention in the newsletter that was a major achievement by the way).
Piracy - I wont even go there, non viable, no cargo after explosion, limpets not effecient, people self destructing
Smugling - no point, black market half price, no real reward for huge risks (fines worse than for murder) No chance of being Han Solo
Trading - tiny margins, repetative, boring
Co-op play - awaiting wings, cap ship battles, very few multiplayer options
PVP - loved it in beta in LP 98-132, but whats the point. Players are dispersed now. The human kill count is gone. Killing clean players (even in anarchy) does not increase your rating - no point. Going after wanted ones too easy to just sc away and escape or log out during fight and escape.
Social chat meeting people in game - need I say more.
Missions for Navies, rank reputation - unclear how system works, not even a picture of the agent (Frontier had at least the 16bit picture of an agent, lol - that was more imersive that same repetative missions at the moment). Feels like you dont know the people behind the missions. A small picture would go a long way or a personalised message "Good to see you again MJC, you are moving up in our rankins... " etc

Please let me know if you have any suggestions on how to have fun. Or shall I just log on in once a month and follow the forums until we have a more immersive game.

Many thaks and good luck - you`ll need it.

 

[ksottam]

So your complaint is that the game isn't easy enough? If you could get an Anaconda in a few months wouldn't that get boring?
.
You don't know what grinding is. Try Eve Online.

It may seem I'm contradicting myself, but I'd actually have much less of a problem with the time invested to get an expensive ship if the progression was more meaningful. As it stands it is minimal and monotonous.

I very rarely become so vocally critical of a game. I think it comes down to that when I play it, I see so. much. potential. And I find myself thinking "what if could do this, or what if I discovered this or what if this happened".

Unfortunately, as it now stands, it's just not there. Its the same thing, over and over and over again with no real sense of progression.

I wish this game the best and I hope that a few months or a year from now I can come back and pick this up and it will be a really great game to play. But right now, I simply cannot recommend this to anyone. If you're having a blast, then I hope it continues for you! But this whole thing has just left a very sour taste in my mouth. I was looking forward to a glorious ribeye med rare steak and I got a White Castle burger minus the patty instead. Hopefully I'll still get the steak later.

 

[Draxinusom]

Actually, why are they "gimping" anything that's not truly broken? Whether it's rares, bounties, exploring, etc. it just seems ANYTHING that makes a few credits gets beat out of existence or down to just a trickle. It just seems they are starting to cripple playstyles instead of bugs. This, is not a good thing.

"Exploit early, exploit often" - common gamer mantra in games where progression is perceived as artificially stifled.

 

[Rockspider]

Wow some posters must live on the forum judging by repeat comments, moan no rares moan lol cant afford my anaconda any more!
Devs should have wiped and restarted everyone and most comments would be null and void.
I am making credits gradually but pretty constantly and will have a new ship in a couple of days the way I am going.

 

[Devil]

It can be which is why I mix it up with some exploration (to help cover fuel costs) and passing through the off anarchy to take on any pirates foolish enough to try their luck

I'm simply providing my personal example - I've stated that there is an issue that is being fixed. Once that's in then we can re-examine.

Michael

The problem, is too fold.
1. The game has now been released, and the trading side should have been sorted months ago, messing around with it now is not what the community expected so quickly, after all you only patched the game 1 day earlier.
2. ED underestimate's how resourceful the community can be, when it comes to breaking your ideal mechanics. That's not our fault, we play the game the way you made it.

 

[cmbloise]

If this is all driven by one core system/entity, then is it reasonable to declare it a bug when I repeatedly get missions "Fetch me N of commodity X please, I'll give you $$$ credits" where the requested commodity can be purchased at the very same station I'm getting offered this mission?

Or should I just treat it as a nice free bonus for checking the bb?

Probably this it's because the trading AI being bugged right now, I have seen this before in gamma, and made a ticket back then, in the meanwhile it's easy money.

 

[Darkmatter]

- Universal Cartographics has issued a new purchasing policy, so Commanders exploring supermassive stellar bodies should no longer receive supermassive payouts.

I don't really get this. I don't know what the payout for "supermassive" bodies is since I never found one, but I find it odd that when I find an previously undiscovered water world when exploring a system, the payout is more or less the same as for other systems. This makes no sense. Finding human-habitable planets should be rewarded more.

 

[Ericlas]

I think the Developers have the right idea here. The rare trade thing was very exploitable and its a bit silly for people to be trading themselves up to the biggest ships in a single weekend of play. I started with nothing but the Free-Eagle on Wednesday - its now Thursday evening and I've got a mostly upgraded Cobra + Lakon6 with a couple of mil in the bank for insurance purely on the Eranin to Any Na (whiskey / coffee) run. But it was very boring for all the time sitting in the station and playing something else! Game needs many alternative and interesting ways to make money but the players shouldn't get fixated on rushing to the end-game.

I just had my favorite experience in the game so far on my first big adventure with bounty hunting a pirate lord target - have spent an hour checking out systems, investigating sensor spots, looting stolen cargo while looking for this named target. (Finally got a sidewinder npc telling me where the guy is) So I go to the system start searching and find eventually a fight in progress between an Anaconda and an Asp. I get all excited but its not the right target - the Anaconda is clean but the ASP is wanted - so I decide to be cheeky and kill steal this npc on npc action and wait till the ASP is low and swoop in and give it all four guns while cutting up the Anaconda. And it works! 25,000 bounty for nothing! (apart from wear and tear from several emergency stops, some ammo, fuel etc) but it still makes me 20,000K! profit for an hours worth of hunting and a dock out to restock.

Sure, its pathetic income compared to the 6m or so I made from the rare runs - but its a lot more fun. (Now I just have to go out and find the proper target).

Now last point about people worrying about being able to sustain the expensive ships. I think you should look to the example of what happened to Eve Online where there is no real upkeep cost to anything compared to pretty easy and regular income. Eventually the game got ruined by loss meaning virtually nothing. It became dominated by rich players with unlimited top end ships that made a farce of game balance.

Frontier Devs must be aware of this risk and setting up the game so the playstyle you choose impacts the kind of ship you can fly and upkeep is sensible. If they balanced the economy so every was in an anaconda in a week then it would be kind of ridiculous and would ruin a lot of low end tramp steamer tinkering gameplay for people in the long term.

Its really not a race.

I just hope Frontier can keep adding more low-end content for casual players so people don't feel funneled towards bigger ships that take a huge investment to keep running.

Please, go out in one of the top end ships and try to do your experience again.
Maintenance costs are huge!
It's not about 'how to get up really fast', this discussion and concern is about 'how to maintain your big ship' since no earning mechanic scales with your ship.

But we got the answer to that already: "if the ship is not viable for your gameplay, then don't use it."
Acknowledged.
I'm just curious to see which gameplay style compliments the use of the big ships then.

 

[Universal Evil]

Well I've just finished upgrading to 1.02 and the game starts up fine, BUT I can't start the actually game only the "training" or options funktions are avalible the "Start" is lighting up "Red" and the screen says that I'm not connected to the server ??
Are this related to the bugfixis like some of the other bugfixes ? or are the servers just down at the moment ?

 

[Erazor]

So how quickly do you think you should be able to buy one of the biggest ships in the game?

Michael

Michael,
From my perspective the disparity is that right now pure grinding seems to be the only way to achieve higher tier items in the game. I would have expected other avenues, such as wide and prolonged (in lack of a better word) "story arcs" where there would be benefits such as a 'conda in the end. Yes, I know there are missions with monetary rewards, but frankly that is not very imaginative. For myself, I only have the time to be a casual gamer and can get in the odd hour or two every other day and a grinding-only level advancement where the only way up is through a calculation on credits/hour is very discouraging to my class of player.

I would like to be able to roam the galaxy with some chance goods in my cargo, stumbling upon an outpost that would pay "anything" for just that commodity. Right now it seems every commodity is a fixed price everywhere with at small percentage based priceband up or down based on demand in each station. Not talking about ships and outfitting which, for reasons I can not understand, are completely fixed throughout the galaxy (except for the Founders world I guess) and the only perspective there is you need to move about to find somewhere selling the darn thing and not be opportunistic if stumbling upon a great deal in some backwater system. I want to enjoy the galaxy when I have the chance and to experience the breadth of the game despite my limitation on playing time. I think it needs to be much less flat and linear for that to happen.

I certainly see that the rare commodities was broken and that (grinding) trading was too lucrative, thus necessitating changes. However, I think you also need to take into account that while slowing things down a bit for the heavy duty grinder, you bring it to a crawl, if not a virtual stop, for the casual player. I'm not asking you to reverse the changes, please improve them (AI trading et.al), but do not only concern yourself about the linearity of grinding because that will be to destructive to other playstyles. If the casual player is to keep coming back to ED she also needs to see the chance to have reasonable progession and yes, that means that it should be possible (gladly through other means that monitary) to acheieve a 'conda in much less that 250 hours of gameplay.

/E

 

[Michael Brookes]

The problem, is too fold.
1. The game has now been released, and the trading side should have been sorted months ago, messing around with it now is not what the community expected so quickly, after all you only patched the game 1 day earlier.
2. ED underestimate's how resourceful the community can be, when it comes to breaking your ideal mechanics. That's not our fault, we play the game the way you made it.

On the first point we've always said that the game will evolve and of course we'll make changes as needed. A problem has been spotted so we're looking into it.

On the second point is some members of the forum who collected hard data that helped us identify what the issue is so of course we appreciate it.

Michael

 

[Ericlas]

Wow some posters must live on the forum judging by repeat comments, moan no rares moan lol cant afford my anaconda any more!
Devs should have wiped and restarted everyone and most comments would be null and void.
I am making credits gradually but pretty constantly and will have a new ship in a couple of days the way I am going.

A wipe would just have postponed the actual discussion.
If you really read through the thread you should by now have realized it isn't about the rare goods solely.
It's about lacking possibilities to maintain your big ship, once you progressed up the ladder.

 

[Martin Schou]

The problem with this idea, in my mind, is that small ships don't tend to have the jump range to make the long-haul trips for 'rares' viable, but 'rares' don't spawn in large enough quantities for long-range trade ships to make good use of their holds.

This is not quite true. The first set of rare trades I did were performed in my Sidewinder.

 

[Dashing Blade]

Ok Question.
Maybe we are missing something.

"we" . . . do not include me in your looney tunes conspiriloon theories pal.

We all know that all the players currently flying the really big ships didnt get their credits the "normal" way.

er . . . any danger of any proof of this fact-free assertion?

Are there "bigger" betterpaying missions currently ingame for someone with high faction rank and rep?

No iodea, play the game and find out

If Yes then never mind, if no, we may have an problem here...

[/QUOTE]
Again, I find your use of the personal pronoun "we" . . . offensive, since when were you elected to speak on behalf of the hive-mind?