The REAL difference between 'regular' and Imperial slaves...

I've seen a number of people on the boards make the point that there is a fundamental difference between Imperial Slaves and 'regular', non-Imperial ones in the ED universe. They say that Imperial Slaves have it better than normal ones, making the point that the Imperial ones eventually get out of slavery once their debt has been payed, which is apparently why many Imperial citizens sell themselves into bondage to begin with. Normal Slaves get sold into bondage, and there is no escape. The argument is thus made that there is a fundamental moral difference between the two, and that this difference must always be kept in mind.


But this is the delusion, though - There is no difference, in the end. Slavery is slavery is slavery - It doesn't matter if you want to be enslaved or not. It's the same concept as supposedly legitimate 'elected dictatorships', as ancient Greek democracies often turned into, where people would vote away their freedoms for the supposed security and protection promised by a would-be despot. You cannot vote away your rights, any more than you can legitimately sell yourself into slavery, which is the same thing, essentially. As a human being, you can't give away your right to freedom - it's a permanent, unalienable right.


Our right to liberty, as with the rights to life and the pursuit of happiness, are fundamental to who we are as human beings. They are an inseparable part of our humanity.


I know that these arguments for slavery are almost completely done from a RP perspective, but the argument is a disturbing one, so I wanted to answer it in this post, just for GP. Thanks for your time :)










TL;DR: This isn't Twitter - Stop being lazy and read the damn post!
 
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I might be wrong but I see Imperial Slaves as some sort of "wage slaves" whereas Slaves are that in the basic meaning of the word.
 
I might be wrong but I see Imperial Slaves as some sort of "wage slaves" whereas Slaves are that in the basic meaning of the word.

How do you mean? The devil is in the details with these sorts of things. If it's just a contract or something, why is it called slavery in the Empire? I am very suspicious...

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Death to the Empire!!!. Or at least Torval anyway.

Have you noticed that the heir's daughter spoke out against slavery? Very interesting stuff...
 
It's the same concept as supposedly legitimate 'elected dictatorships', as ancient Greek democracies often turned into, where people would vote away their freedoms for the supposed security and protection promised by a would-be despot.

Well, it is an Empire, after all.

Historically, slavery has covered many things, and some of them all at the same time: from the educated slave living a comfortable life being a teacher for his owner's children, to the labor slave killed over a few weeks in salt mines. A good number of slaves have been recorded as helping their masters against Spartacus because, free, all they could have done for a living were the lowest jobs.
 
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A Wage Slaves, and you can spot that reference across many PnP RPGs, especially cyberpunk styled ones, is simply the corporate worker that earns credits to spend on their employer products, so simply said they are slaves, the wage is simply a measure of how important their slavery is... if any.

IIRC in ED they take this a bit further and everyone with "accounts to settle" in the Empire will be turned into a Imp.Slave and work their brains out doing "data input 18 hours a day" for minimum wage that they have to spend on commodities traded by Imperial Slaves operating their stations and ships...

etc etc

We can make up a bit around this.

Plain Slaves ( yes Feds you are not without fault !!!! ) work their hard backs at extraction and refineries and probably factories simply on bread and water... until they expire.
 
How do you mean? The devil is in the details with these sorts of things. If it's just a contract or something, why is it called slavery in the Empire? I am very suspicious...

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Have you noticed that the heir's daughter spoke out against slavery? Very interesting stuff...

Yeah, if the empire remove slavery I may just switch over ....maybe. But if they did their economy would be shattered since they rely on slaves to run their empire.
 
Your position appears to be "both are wrong so they're effectively the same", overlooking that whilst two things may be wrong one may be worse than the other. No chance of freedom is worse than a slim one.
 
Iimperial slavery is basically indentured servitude. "oh you owe 100,000$, I'll buy out your debt, if you be my 'slave' for 3 years". I'd imagine you'd also be responsible for your slaves food and living quarters. they'd be legally obligated to do anything you ask, act as a butler or work using any skills they possess/manual labor. There's most likely also laws protecting the slaves too, no more than 14 hour work days, vacation/breaks, have to be treated reasonably,....etc.

Think of it like contractual willing slavery instead of the forced/unwilling kind.
 
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If one chooses slavery, it isn't slavery. The thing is, do emperial slaves get a fair 'wage' for their labour? I don't consider them slaves but serfs. Not that I agree with that either but it isn't slavery as such.
 
Iimperial slavery is basically indentured servitude. "oh you owe 100,000$, I'll buy out your debt, if you be my 'slave' for 3 years". I'd imagine you'd also be responsible for your slaves food and living quarters.

Ah but that is how the unjust keep their slaves in bondage, they let them pay for food and lodging, so prolonging their servitude for longer and longer
because they can never pay of their debts in this way. This goes for the dishonest ones ofcourse
 
Slaves, of either type, are another commodity to be sold for profit

If they come with freedom , then I charge more ;)

.....they never come with freedom
 
From what I understand, an imperial slave's chance for freedom is far from a slim one- it's guaranteed. They're indentured servants. "Work for me until your debt of X credits has been paid off."
 
A Wage Slaves, and you can spot that reference across many PnP RPGs, especially cyberpunk styled ones, is simply the corporate worker that earns credits to spend on their employer products, so simply said they are slaves, the wage is simply a measure of how important their slavery is... if any.

Kind of like many miners here in the States back in the day, who were paid just enough to afford rent on their mining company-provided houses and food and supplies from the mining company-run general store. They would 'enslave' them by limiting their access to capital, and thus opportunity.

The difference is that you could legally leave ;) It might be very hard to financially, but the company didn't actually own you, although many companies tried very hard to limit your opportunity, and convince you that there was none outside of what little opportunity they provided. This is different than ACTUAL slavery, though. You have the right to leave, however hard and financially debilitating it may be.
 
I believe Imperial slaves also have certain rights guaranteed by law. So shenanigans designed to keep someone indentured forever would probably result in... punishment.

That said, as a merc who is only interested in big piles of money, I'd say the REAL difference between ordinary and imperial slaves is that the latter are somewhat easier to move.
 
Yeah, if the empire remove slavery I may just switch over ....maybe. But if they did their economy would be shattered since they rely on slaves to run their empire.

I would entertain at least being friendly to an Empire-turned-Republic (A true republic, not just in name only). The freeing of their slaves is perhaps the most important step in this process, if it were to begin.

You are probably right, though, about their economy crumbling, much the way the South here in the US was devastated not just by the Civil War, but the freeing of the slaves. Such are the wages of sin.

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Your position appears to be "both are wrong so they're effectively the same", overlooking that whilst two things may be wrong one may be worse than the other. No chance of freedom is worse than a slim one.

No, you misunderstand - I agree with what you say wholeheartedly. But both ARE still wrong - The rest is semantics, in my opinion ;)
 
Iimperial slavery is basically indentured servitude. "oh you owe 100,000$, I'll buy out your debt, if you be my 'slave' for 3 years". I'd imagine you'd also be responsible for your slaves food and living quarters. they'd be legally obligated to do anything you ask, act as a butler or work using any skills they possess/manual labor. There's most likely also laws protecting the slaves too, no more than 14 hour work days, vacation/breaks, have to be treated reasonably,....etc.

Think of it like contractual willing slavery instead of the forced/unwilling kind.


This is a BIG assumption, friend! Regardless of whether there are laws governing the 'proper' treatment of slaves in the Empire, though, the whole system seems REALLY prone to abuse and malfeasance. It's a very, very slippery slope. You're telling me an influential Senator or business magnate wouldn't be able to abuse the hell out of the system, and treat their 'dignified' Imperial slaves as ACTUAL slaves? I seriously doubt it.

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If one chooses slavery, it isn't slavery. The thing is, do emperial slaves get a fair 'wage' for their labour? I don't consider them slaves but serfs. Not that I agree with that either but it isn't slavery as such.

Then why do they call it slavery? If it is impossible to legally remove yourself from a position of servitude of your own free accord, regardless of whether you chose that servitude to begin with, it is slavery, and it is wrong. You cannot willingly give away your right to choose, not legitimately. This relates back to my argument about elected dictatorships...
 
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