Scrap or redesign shield cell modules, they are too overpowered and trivialize PvP.

[Marikc0]

Currently as it stands in-game, shield cell modules are a I-win button of shield regen even under heavy fire. Whilst this makes hunting down NPCs trivially easy (and just a matter of managing how many cells you have left), it makes PvP utterly pointless.

Any self-respecting pilot would have shield cell modules. Those who want to ensure a win will fill their internals with nothing but shield cell modules to ensure they have more than the enemy. It soon degrades a situation of who has more shield cells, instead of who's a better pilot. That's never fun, and never fair.

What I propose as a fix is to scrap the entire concept of shield cell recharge entirely, and rebalance the module so that it enhances whatever current shield generator is fitted onto the ship passively instead, and with more combat damage sustained, the module sustains more damage until it breaks or malfunctions, returning the shield generator back to baseline performance.

Lets call it a shield recharge module.

• Limited to one per shield generator, which means one per ship.
• Tremendously increase downed shield recycling from what can be 30 seconds-2minute now, to 3-7 seconds depending upon shield generator grade/class and ship.
• Any and all damage to shields will wear down the module. Downed shields will wear it down even more.
• The more damaged the module, the worse the sped-up shield down recycle time is.
• Module breaks on next downed shield state, which then recycles as baseline.

This makes it still a vital combat module, whilst not turning it into an I-win button with an ammo limit. It encourages people to naturally have attacks and retreats during combat and not be forced into waiting on shields to come back, giving the attacker free reign for however many minutes it takes.

It also encourages smart play from opposing pilots, who now have real reason to take the natural flow of combat (be it attack or defense) dependant upon one's shield state and/or other factors, instead of just staying full-on 4-pips to weapons and just hammering their trigger, gulping down a shield cell when needs arise.

Epic 1-on-1 duels are now possible and exciting, which rewards smart and skilled play instead of an exercise in who brought more shield cells to a fight.

There is nothing wrong with shield cells. You SHOULD be able to recharge your shields in some way other than the gradual recharge. NPCs should be harder in some ways, sure but this is not the correct way to fix it. It would be like removing tires because of bad road conditions.

Get over yourself.

If they want to nerf it for PvP fine, but that is not how you fix PvE. It's a feature that SHOULD exist in a game like this . If you want to ruin good features in a good game, then go play something else. Christ.

 

[Johnny Spaceboots]

There is nothing wrong with shield cells. You SHOULD be able to recharge your shields in some way other than the gradual recharge. NPCs should be harder in some ways, sure but this is not the correct way to fix it. It would be like removing tires because of bad road conditions.

Get over yourself.

If they want to nerf it for PvP fine, but that is not how you fix PvE. It's a feature that SHOULD exist in a game like this . If you want to ruin good features in a good game, then go play something else. Christ.

Please tell me why we should have an almost instantaneous recharge for our busted shields in a game about skillbased dogfighting, trading, etc? That sort of mechanic belongs more in an MMO than in the combat mechanics of a game like Elite. Next you'll be telling me that we should have tank, dps, healing, and nuker ships as well.

 

[Tenshi]

I honestly don't think there is a problem with them as they stand I have done pvp and pve and find them not to be over powered at all. Even lost a few fights when using shield cells as well, but that could be down to me learning the ropes or the fact I only use one cell bank anyway and tend to only use them when I really have to.

If anything were to happen with Shield Cell banks I really think they should be limited to one bank per ship, with no cool down timer. This makes them limited to a 3 -5 use items depending rating.

Just to note they already have a recharge time built into them and do not instantly recharge the shields, but instead charge them over a short period of time. The shields can still fail during this recharge time and then you have wasted a cell.

 

[bassman]

If we do keep shield cells in some form (say single bank 4 cells max) then I would be tempted to significantly uograde hull strenghts (e.g. double them) to retain hull strength as an important tactical variable, and to encourage more diverse weapon loads out e.g. energy plus projectile.

 

[Tenshi]

If we do keep shield cells in some form (say single bank 4 cells max) then I would be tempted to significantly uograde hull strenghts (e.g. double them) to retain hull strength as an important tactical variable, and to encourage more diverse weapon loads out e.g. energy plus projectile.

If you get rid of cell banks completely no one here would be able to tackle a Anaconda 1v1 anymore until they are in the same size ship or near abouts. If they can I say prove it with a video without using shield cell banks on a Elite Anaconda.

 

[Johnny Spaceboots]

If we do keep shield cells in some form (say single bank 4 cells max) then I would be tempted to significantly uograde hull strenghts (e.g. double them) to retain hull strength as an important tactical variable, and to encourage more diverse weapon loads out e.g. energy plus projectile.

Hell, why not take it a step further and have hull cell boosters, which rapidly repair your ship? That way, if you ever mess up, you can go right back to 100% again no problem, and fights between two vipers can last 2+ hours

 

[Bangfish]

I honestly don't think there is a problem with them as they stand I have done pvp and pve and find them not to be over powered at all.

I guess we are playing a different game then. I jump on an adder, destroy its hatch. Cargo is spilled out. Then 4 federal vipers jump in. I casually move from one canister to another, scooping the cargo, even alt-tabbing in the process. When I am done, I hit boost and fsd. Oh wait, there were 4 federal vipers shooting at me? Wow, I almost forgot...

 

[Johnny Spaceboots]

If you get rid of cell banks completely no one here would be able to tackle a Anaconda 1v1 anymore until they are in the same size ship or near abouts. If they can I say prove it with a video without using shield cell banks on a Elite Anaconda.

Alright. It's easy to do. Anaconda's are pushovers even without shield cells. Another post, in which he takes forever to do so because his weapon loadout was not optimal for anaconda hunting

Uhh? OP states something eminently plausible, easily repeatable, and not remotely far fetched, yet people are doubtful...why?

This is an oldish test video, but I kill an all beam laser turret Elite Anaconda without any SCBs, using all fixed beam lasers (which are terrible against armor), targeting useless subsystems (I take out the cargo hatch first, then the shield gen, then FSD), with no NPC assistance, and don't take any hull damage or expend any consumables of any kind except for some PDT ammo (that I probably didn't need):

[video=youtube;-h4vwVljHoQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h4vwVljHoQ[/video]

Yes, I know it's the wrong setup to use and thus takes forever; I was mostly screwing around/testing where the new Beta 3 (and current) module locations were and practicing my ability to hit them with fixed beams.

I can currently, and repeatedly, pull off Elite NPC Anaconda kills in less than half the time with the same weapons (by targeting the PP and not screwing around), or cut the time to under four minutes with a weapon loadout better suited to Anaconda hunting (I'll happily make a new video when I get home) and there are plenty of people who can do it better/faster than me.

Even the above half- exercise is certainly a walk in the park, despite being a protracted one.

 

[bassman]

If you get rid of cell banks completely no one here would be able to tackle a Anaconda 1v1 anymore until they are in the same size ship or near abouts.

Same would apply once NPC anacondas start using shield banks, the fact that they dont currently effectively makes them PvE exploit.

 

[defekt]

That's essentially what shield potions are, and why they need to go (or be reworked).

 

[Drazon]

I'm new to Elite.

I've been using 1 cell bank on my cobra. It's quite nice. Never thought to put more than 1 of them and I won't do it now that I've read it's possible.

I hope nobody will. But someone will do it anyway, 'cos it's possible.


I like this game. But I thought taking out big ships would be either

1) getting in 1 big ship vs 1 big ships
2) getting in 4 smaller ships vs 1 big ships

I really hope devs will fix this such that we will have a nice space simulator - instead of nice space shoot-em-up, which will wear out in a month. And when that happens, don't expect people to buy the game after it's moved on from this almost-ready-but-still-quite-beta stage.


I'd love to sign an online petition to fix this problem. Don't know if the devs really read these threads...

 

[Tenshi]

Alright. It's easy to do. Anaconda's are pushovers even without shield cells. Another post, in which he takes forever to do so because his weapon loadout was not optimal for anaconda hunting

That video is from beta 3 not really relevant to the current game.

 

[Morbad]

If we do keep shield cells in some form (say single bank 4 cells max) then I would be tempted to significantly uograde hull strenghts (e.g. double them) to retain hull strength as an important tactical variable, and to encourage more diverse weapon loads out e.g. energy plus projectile.

I do not think any further inflation of shield or hull strength is a good idea, regardless of what happens with SCBs.

Same would apply once NPC anacondas start using shield banks, the fact that they dont currently effectively makes them PvE exploit.

Actually, some of them do use SCBs, and have since Beta 3.

That video is from beta 3 not really relevant to the current game.

The AI, maneuverability, hard point locations, SCB strength, and pretty much every relevant factor is the same in release.

Beta 3.03 was more or less complete, despite a pile of bugs, none of which were relevant in the above video.

I've fought Anaconda since release, and it's the same as it was in Beta 3, except for the ones in Conflict Zones, which are much more likely to use their SCBs...but they still die without being much of a threat, it just takes a little longer.

As I said in the other thread, I'll make a new video when I get back from holiday.

 

[defekt]

IActually, some of them do use SCBs, and have since Beta 3.

They do, but I suspect they do so deliberately ineffectively so as not to shine a light on how silly the idea of shield potions is; however, human players generally have no such compunctions.

 

[Johnny Spaceboots]

That video is from beta 3 not really relevant to the current game.

Nothing significant has changed since Beta 3.03 in regards to the relevant combat variables. The video is relevant.

 

[Malkurn]

I agree they're a bit OP but I don't think they should be removed and I don't think they should be nerfed to only carry one charge. I would keep them mostly the same as they are now but I would add a cooldown that begins once combat has ended.

 

[Rall]

They should stay ingame - As soon as they are removed the board will be full of people saying shields are to weak and need faster recharge times.

I do agree there isn't many downsides to using them though, personally I think they need to be heavier and produce a significant amount of heat. You’ll actually have to manage them in combat, and then there’s real consideration in there use.

You can load up on shield cells, but now your ship turns like a bus. Popping them down of in quick succession? You then overheat and risk hull damage, and your weapons are now useless.

Also a serious question for people calling for there removal, have you fought any player Dropships, Pythons or Anaconda's yet?

We also need to wait until player wings are implemented, because traders especially are going to have a tough time surviving co-ordinated pirate squadrons without them.

 

[Jimac]

Shield cells are a badly thought out overcomplication to dogfighting...they throw the previous balance, which needed work anyway, out the window.
Since they throw the balance of shield vs hull strength completely off, so they also throw the balance of shield vs hull weapons off. Why carry hull weapons when the overwhelming strength of a ship is now in it's shields
All the testing and balancing worked out through Alpha and Beta is casually and I believe thoughtlessly wasted in implimenting such an overpowering mechanic as shield boosters.
I don't even want them adjusted, I'd rather they were just removed.
Whatever problem they were supposed to solve or interest they were supposed to add is not worth the effect they have on gameplay.

 

[KazumaKat]

No one should have any incentive to fly anything bigger then a Cobra.

Then the game has little point past the first month of grinding up to a Cobra, and then A-grading it. The game would die after that month if everyone took this mentality.

Guess what, not many dont, and want to aim high, Anaconda high, and maybe even beyond. They will become the vital people you want to retain to keep a game alive.

 

[defekt]

We also need to wait until player wings are implemented, because traders especially are going to have a tough time surviving co-ordinated pirate squadrons without them.

No, the counter to pirate wings is traders flying with escorts, not silly magical devices that allow sole flyers to always escape from an orchestrated mugging.

I don't like the kind of thinking that's being pushed around here, in that small ships must have some sort of mechanical right to be able to take on the big ships and have a good chance of winning. The very biggest ships can be taken apart by foes that amount to less than 2% of the big ship's value as it is. If anything big ships need to be less vulnerable.