Walking around stations may be a bad idea

From what I 've read here I believe the ability to get up and leave your ship is in the offing at some point in the future.

Prior to ED being released a rival similar product introduced the ability to walk around stations as an expansion to what had been possible in previous games in the series. I think most fans of that series would agree it was a disaster (now gradually being fixed). The problem for that game was that each station interior was one of a small number of models and each station was populated by a small range of NPC characters - so you can fly half way across the galaxy to walk into an identical looking station to have an identical conversation with an NPC that looks identical to thousands of others. Interaction with those NPCs was then limited to a handful of brief scripted conversations and a simple mini-game.

Now I don't have a problem with the current limited number of station docking zone interiors in ED; the stations look terrific and taken with the range of outposts I'm happy. However unless FD put an enormous amount of effort into generating something that doesn't really seem central to an Elite game I worry that a first person experience out of the ships will necessarily be very limited and 'immersion breaking'. It's acceptable for one landing pad to look like another (even on a planet surface) but will walking down corridors identical to corridors lights years away and past people who seemingly have clones throughout the galaxy not be the ultimate immersion breaker? Perhaps FD are capable of producing station interiors and human models in a procedural manner to get the variation required to simulate a 'living, breaking universe' but it seems an epic undertaking to me.

There's also the question of what to do when you leave your spacecraft. If you can do everything you need to do from your spacecraft why bother leaving and therefore why bother tasking developers with working on such a peripheral aspect to the game? However if the player does need to leave their spacecraft to complete a task then there is the risk that process will become very tedious and repetitive slowing down the game. The rival product to ED implemented station walking as a required feature to play the game successfully and back-tracked rapidly in patches and revisions as players resented repeating out of ship tasks at each station they landed at.

I'm not saying that FD couldn't do an excellent job of implementing walking around stations. I'm just apprehensive that the scale of the task required to achieve that in a convincing, immersive way means that it could be a very long time before this feature would add to the quality of the game. This is time that could be spent on enhancing the core functionality of the game: better multiplayer, more varied missions etc., a wider rage of stations and outposts perhaps including some unique structures at key locations etc... We have to remember that FPS and PRG games are sophisticated undertakings in their own right.

So basically I'm worried that getting out of your spacecraft and walking around will necessarily expose the limitations of the simulation and actually be counter immersive.

Thoughts?
 
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Completely agree. I couldn't be less interested in walking around stations. Elite, for me, is a game about space and spaceships - that's what I want from it.

I have similar concerns about landing on planets. Unless they find a way to add interesting and varied gameplay alongside them, both walking around stations and landing on planets seem like a colossal waste of the dev's time. I would much, much rather them add new and varied gameplay for the core of the game - space and spaceships.
 
I approve of the OP and wholeheartedly agree.
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People have been drawing inevitable comparisons to Elite II: Frontier with its planetary landings and NPC character dialogue interaction. What they appear to struggle with understanding is that with the state of graphics as it was then, it was easy to scatter a few blocky buildings on an otherwise featureless sphere and call it a city. It was easy to computer-generate a few composite portraits without voice or animation and have a multiple choice driven dialogue. Now people will expect realistic buildings, streets, vehicles; people walking around and voice dialogue with great degrees of freedom. It is exponentially more challenging to generate that stuff. Like Moore's law states that processing power doubles every 18 months, it seems that the amount of work required to create the level of detail and complexity that this processing power can drive doubles every 18 months as well.
 
I'd rather be able to walk around the ship itself if there was room to do it. Space stations seem cool but I don't know of any practical reason to do it. The only way I could see it happening is if it was limited to the shipyard/bay and something akin to a 'home' or apartment, kind of like in Anarchy Online. But there would have to be some reason to it.
 
When it comes, if you don't like it, don't do it :)

This ^^^. As it will be a purchasable DLC it is up to the player whether they want it or not. As FD have a viable in house FPS already, and which uses the Cobra engine, then this DLC may work better than you think.
 
Not necessarily. I'm sure that technically it can be done, like technically they could procedurally generate am entire galaxy. But what are people saying? It looks lifeless, empty, repetitive. If Frontier wants to give people a varied and interesting experience of space stations, they'd have to create variety and meaningful content in those maps --varied backdrops and sounds, varied characters, much, much voice dialogue covering a huge multitude of branching conversations. It is an immense amount of work.
 
I'll wait to see what it adds to the game, if it is just basically the same as the menus now, but prettier and more time consuming, then I don't see the point, but you never know what depth and subtlety they could include if they are very clever with it.
 
I think also we have to accept that there will be limitations simply based on what sort of return they expect for the work involved.
 
I share similar concerns. If stations are meant to be cities in space, it will involve an epic amount of work to make that convincing in any immersive way.
 
Walking around my ship will add to my immersion tremendously. From my perspective and my experience with ED so far it will be a great addition. Even if stations will look the same and be empty.
 
Walking around stations may be a bad idea

This is because:-

(A) You have no.........computing skill, imagination, faith, vision.

This condition can be caused by all or some of the above, it mainly presents itself in people with a low trust threshold i.e. they hold a common belief that they can always do a better job and when said job presents itself as beyond their capabilities they automatically assume that no one else is capable either. Cure for this condition is possible by improving the above (see A) skills.
 
+1. This sounds like a lot of development time sunk in to something that I'm fairly sure I will only very occasionally partake in. What is the point? These things don't come for free - because Frontier are working on this feature they won't be working on other things which would enhance the core gameplay, and first person walking about is a non-trivial amount of work. Elite is about spaceships, they should be doing things to improve the spaceship bit.

Incidentally, I also work in computing...
 
And look - we are stuck in beautifully crafted, but somehow claustrophobic cockpits and can't even see how our ship looks like - we need to be able to go outside. Now. :)
 
Walking around stations may be a bad idea

This is because:-

(A) You have no.........computing skill, imagination, faith, vision.

This condition can be caused by all or some of the above, it mainly presents itself in people with a low trust threshold i.e. they hold a common belief that they can always do a better job and when said job presents itself as beyond their capabilities they automatically assume that no one else is capable either. Cure for this condition is possible by improving the above (see A) skills.

I have a degree in computer science :)

PWNED. :p

And I've been coding since 1982. My first modded computer was a Commodore 64 (added reset button, CPU status LEDs, six kernel ROM switcher bank, serial to parallel conversion of floppy drive). I think it's safe to assume we know a bit about computers. :)

Add to that the facts that it's been tried in X-Rebirth, and didn't work so well (see OP), and that Eve Online has been working on this for years and still hasn't implemented it. And it has a lot more resources and is also a lot further down that path.
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Don't get me wrong: the idea of walking around the station or even just the landing pad seems like fun to me. But other people will demand much, much more and moan loudly when their unrealistic expectations aren't met.
 
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I thought FD had already developed a FPS, Outsider, which never saw the light of day for various reasons, which was very much like GTA using the same engine? If so, then the ability to drop this in as a DLC should be quite easy and if procedurally generated, could be a good addition. http://www.frontier.co.uk/games/outsider/outsider_media/

But as others have said, if you don't want it, don't purchase the DLC
 
Completely agree. I couldn't be less interested in walking around stations. Elite, for me, is a game about space and spaceships - that's what I want from it.

I have similar concerns about landing on planets. Unless they find a way to add interesting and varied gameplay alongside them, both walking around stations and landing on planets seem like a colossal waste of the dev's time. I would much, much rather them add new and varied gameplay for the core of the game - space and spaceships.

This, this and this again with gusto.
 
I think it can be done.

Rather than try to populate a whole station with npcs I would look at just doing various settings within the station and use a transit system like a tram to take players to and from locations (to load them into a instance of the setting) These could be corporation offices where you meet the npcs behind the missions on the boards. A pub where players can be social and interact with each other and play darts or pool, or a garden area if it is an agriculture station.

We would be able to walk around our ships and inside of them also as well as invite other players into them.

To try and do a whole station it would be like trying to create the whole of New York or London in space and populate it with millions of npcs. Just not really possible to do or practical.

Same could go for planet side cities and ports.

As for planet landings that have no cities or populations then these would be PG.


You could then mix it up with the FPS element during a war or civil war in a system where players could go planet side and try to take key locations in a shooter type combat using a cover system like Ghost Recon or GTA V. Where teams will face off against each other to either defend or attack. If there are not enough players then the simulation will put into place bots to make up the team lacking in players.
 
And look - we are stuck in beautifully crafted, but somehow claustrophobic cockpits and can't even see how our ship looks like - we need to be able to go outside. Now. :)
If you have a rift, you can see a lot more. I got out of my chair (really weird with a rift on) and looked at the back of the ship and it's pretty interesting, especially the eagle. Grant it, it's not like OMG SO GREAT but you get the idea.

p.s. i really love mass effect too
 
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