i remember when walking around station was the most hyped and anticipated addition coming to EVE.
and now barely anyone bothers to use it.
and now barely anyone bothers to use it.
Walking around stations may be a bad idea
- Thread starter Alex Hughes
- Start date
Hi,
for me ED is a space fly simulator so I dont see the usefullness of walking in the spations. (and as the OP says it is a disaster in the latest egosoft game) I somehow see why walking into a spaceship could be cool (think falcon millenium with its turrets if multiple players are in it) or outside for spacewalk, ejection, reparations, or small stuff scooping.
Etienne
for me ED is a space fly simulator so I dont see the usefullness of walking in the spations. (and as the OP says it is a disaster in the latest egosoft game) I somehow see why walking into a spaceship could be cool (think falcon millenium with its turrets if multiple players are in it) or outside for spacewalk, ejection, reparations, or small stuff scooping.
Etienne
FD made it clear they want these elements to be developed as expansions so they can do it right. That's enough for me, this far ahead of time.
Not worth worrying about, really. I like theory-crafting as much as the next forumite but negative theory-crafting is a good way to waste effort, energy and bandwidth for no benefit.
All we have to work on is developer diaries of devs saying what they would like to see; not nearly enough to go on, in order to predict the doom of the content.
Not worth worrying about, really. I like theory-crafting as much as the next forumite but negative theory-crafting is a good way to waste effort, energy and bandwidth for no benefit.
All we have to work on is developer diaries of devs saying what they would like to see; not nearly enough to go on, in order to predict the doom of the content.
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This is pretty much what I was thinking. I think the way they did it was right but they could've done a lot more with it.
I can't wait to be able to walk around stations.Hopefully by then they will be populated.Now it's like flying a toy ship into a scale model.
While I do share the worries of the OP, I still would like to have limited availability to leave my ship at stations.
I'm currently actually just interested in two aspects here.
1. Walking though the ship store. More or less being able to check the ships from the outside as much as I want, check some from the inside. A bit like what SC has here (but not my garage but the ship store so I can check each ship before owning it!).
2. Station Pub. I would love it if each station would have a pub where I can sit and maybe chat with some other commanders (If docked and as well in said place). Here I can think about interactive tables where you sit at, that allow you to browse the galaxy map while being in there (and look around)
(just let me choose it from the menue and teleport me to said location for now until the worries of the OP are of no concern because of mass of content)
I'm currently actually just interested in two aspects here.
1. Walking though the ship store. More or less being able to check the ships from the outside as much as I want, check some from the inside. A bit like what SC has here (but not my garage but the ship store so I can check each ship before owning it!).
2. Station Pub. I would love it if each station would have a pub where I can sit and maybe chat with some other commanders (If docked and as well in said place). Here I can think about interactive tables where you sit at, that allow you to browse the galaxy map while being in there (and look around)
(just let me choose it from the menue and teleport me to said location for now until the worries of the OP are of no concern because of mass of content)
I don't think that they implemented it yet. You can only wander around your hotel room, which is really just an interface for ship maintenance, character modification and trade/information browsing.
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I would be happy to just wander around the station not doing anything in particular. A bar would be a good place for players to gather and interact. But again that requires a lot more work on the MMO element of the game. Frontier needs to decide what side of the fence they come down on in this regard.
You can visit 1000's of offices around the world and most of them look the same, desk, chairs and some paper with PC's whirrling away with people typing on them.
Same can be said for hospitals, army bases, etc etc. The only difference is the people, or is it ? Walk down a New York street and take all the people you meet and then put them into a London one with a English accent. Fashion is the same people are the same places change.
Instead of trying to do things on a massive scale like some here are thinking, all I think needs to be done is a few instances within the station. Most commanders will never want to see the power plant of a space station so why would there be a need to design it or populate it? Same can be said for the recycling plants.
A whole space station is something like 5 km long there is no need to make all of it or populate all of it.
They could have a catalog of 1000 male and 1000 female characters with different names from a massive data base and various lines of speech which is randomly selected when a player loads into the instance. For the main npc players in the game these of course would be static, such as the doctor at Azeban City or the manager of the local faction branch.
I can take or leave the idea of walking around stations, i just hope it doesn't end up being something i need to skip every time i dock. I would much rather see them go the whole hog on planetary stations and add something along the lines of the MB4 mining machine from Frontier, though more complex.
Even then i will be happy enough to just drop it off from my cargo bay i feel no need to get out and do it in 1st or 3rd person.
If they do it they will have to do it right so we don't end up with the half attempts we saw in X rebirth and Eve.
Even then i will be happy enough to just drop it off from my cargo bay i feel no need to get out and do it in 1st or 3rd person.
If they do it they will have to do it right so we don't end up with the half attempts we saw in X rebirth and Eve.
Stop worrying about nothing. Just because other games mess this kind of thing up don't tarnish that on Frontier. Just because it has been done badly before does that mean other companies should stop trying? Otherwise we would never have innovation. Eventually at some point a game will get it right - I believe that will be Elite Dangerous.
That other game you mentioned isn't multiplayer (assuming you were referring to X Rebirth?). I am astounded you even compared the two in the same breath. Egosoft totally lost the plot and in some ways took on more than they could chew.
I expect being able to leave your ship, walk around it - go to some kind of trading lounge and meet other commanders would be awesome. I refuse to question it or be negative about it. I am so happy that David Braben wants it to happen.
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I'm sure this is absolutely absurd, but what if frontier went all out and made the cities and stations incredibly in depth and complex. To the point that you can walk around the cities and into bars and interact with other players. Some anarchy systems could have famous bars that thugs and pirate often come to. You can track down bounties not only in space, but on foot. If you had freedom to do what you want and could even shoot other players, but would instantly be swarmed by authority types on foot or by drones. Anarchy systems would have little to no security.
Just an interesting dream..
Just an interesting dream..
I've been thinking about this for a while, and agree with the concerns in the earlier posts....
Some thoughts in no particular order...
Giving players vast expectations is always going to be a problem. How to stop this? Not sure...but the following might offer some solutions.
Cities and space stations.
I've lived in some of Europe's biggest cities, I've also visited a significant portion of cities and districts that I haven't lived in for both business and pleasure.
Stations are about the same size.
In the cities that I have lived in, I have only visited a small percentage of it's streets, shops, spaces, parks and private areas. Many of these would be of no interest (unless a mission requirement) and many of these are locked to me, as in factories, private residences, military and commercial areas.
In the cities that I have visited, I have visited tourist destinations, entertainment venues and airports and conference centers.
As an Elite Universe Pilot....what would I visit? Some starport facilities, some tourism (spectacular views from the orbis rings, parks, docking bay viewing domes, local cultural centres, museums, casinos, arenas, bars, cinema/theatre (classic 2d movies from millennia ago( a la GTA?)), zoos and oceanaria?
Why would a pilot need to enter a manufacturing quarter? Why would a pilot want to venture in the slums? Most transactions can be carried out safely via a terminal. Cities and starports might not be for adventure but for R&R. We've seen this before in may games.
The starports would, in this scenario, be places to fill in the gaps in the lore/culture of the universe
Being able to walk around ones ship is a wonderful proposal, getting a feel for the culture within the stations. Visit the Zorgon Peterson museum, attend a recital of Hengist Duvalls poetry, lose your shirt (ship) at the casinos....it's all about space tourism.
A few templates for scenarios with some procedural variation would be a good start. Maybe conference centres could have seasonal events (Space horse racing one month and bloody musicals another), clubs would vary their space techno DJ's.
None of this would be essential to the core game and would just additionalise the experience. It just needs some considered visual design and some richness.
I'm a pilot, not a bouncer, diplomat, vigilante, footsoldier or spy. But my status might get me to the front of the queue at Lave Berghain
That Other Game got it massively wrong, The levels walked around were generic and uninteresting with no sense of awe and spectacle. Felt like walking into the worst bar in my old hometown and straight into the changing rooms of our municipal swimming baths attended by the same 5 people
The E
outposts might have a tad of that but let's think about it...There are some good designers at Frontier.
...and much of this has already been said. Danger of it turning into SL or PS Home.
Low population stations might have the same modules installed but would be underpopulated or off limits, high populations systems crowded and bustling. Because there are no specific missions tied to the on-station environment dialogue trees wouldn't need to be fleshed out any more than a conversation with a croupier or security guard (maybe...)
Yeah...apologies for the stream of consciousness discussion and reading through some of this has already been said.
I don't want E:d to be an FPS, I would be very happy if the universe felt rich. GalNet helps.
Some thoughts in no particular order...
Giving players vast expectations is always going to be a problem. How to stop this? Not sure...but the following might offer some solutions.
Cities and space stations.
I've lived in some of Europe's biggest cities, I've also visited a significant portion of cities and districts that I haven't lived in for both business and pleasure.
Stations are about the same size.
In the cities that I have lived in, I have only visited a small percentage of it's streets, shops, spaces, parks and private areas. Many of these would be of no interest (unless a mission requirement) and many of these are locked to me, as in factories, private residences, military and commercial areas.
In the cities that I have visited, I have visited tourist destinations, entertainment venues and airports and conference centers.
As an Elite Universe Pilot....what would I visit? Some starport facilities, some tourism (spectacular views from the orbis rings, parks, docking bay viewing domes, local cultural centres, museums, casinos, arenas, bars, cinema/theatre (classic 2d movies from millennia ago( a la GTA?)), zoos and oceanaria?
Why would a pilot need to enter a manufacturing quarter? Why would a pilot want to venture in the slums? Most transactions can be carried out safely via a terminal. Cities and starports might not be for adventure but for R&R. We've seen this before in may games.
The starports would, in this scenario, be places to fill in the gaps in the lore/culture of the universe
Being able to walk around ones ship is a wonderful proposal, getting a feel for the culture within the stations. Visit the Zorgon Peterson museum, attend a recital of Hengist Duvalls poetry, lose your shirt (ship) at the casinos....it's all about space tourism.
A few templates for scenarios with some procedural variation would be a good start. Maybe conference centres could have seasonal events (Space horse racing one month and bloody musicals another), clubs would vary their space techno DJ's.
None of this would be essential to the core game and would just additionalise the experience. It just needs some considered visual design and some richness.
I'm a pilot, not a bouncer, diplomat, vigilante, footsoldier or spy. But my status might get me to the front of the queue at Lave Berghain
That Other Game got it massively wrong, The levels walked around were generic and uninteresting with no sense of awe and spectacle. Felt like walking into the worst bar in my old hometown and straight into the changing rooms of our municipal swimming baths attended by the same 5 people
The E
outposts might have a tad of that but let's think about it...There are some good designers at Frontier....and much of this has already been said. Danger of it turning into SL or PS Home.
Low population stations might have the same modules installed but would be underpopulated or off limits, high populations systems crowded and bustling. Because there are no specific missions tied to the on-station environment dialogue trees wouldn't need to be fleshed out any more than a conversation with a croupier or security guard (maybe...)
Yeah...apologies for the stream of consciousness discussion and reading through some of this has already been said.
I don't want E:d to be an FPS, I would be very happy if the universe felt rich. GalNet helps.
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I'll wait and see what, if anything, FD come up with for this. Comparisons with X: Rebirth are relevant, but it's worth remembering that the station part of X: Rebirth was—like everything else in X: Rebirth—incredibly badly implemented. FD have, so far, managed to make a space-sim that knocks Rebirth's socks off, so it's not inconceivable that they could do the same with the first-person stuff.
Out of ship experience is most welcomed. I want to walk on planets, even if it's just in simple way. Salvation Prophecy did it. Simple, and still in funny way (ship/walking transition) and that was made by one man. StarTrek Online also has "FPS" missions. Generated, simple, and it works. Making stations a hubs but still be game about ships in space.
X3 was just limited. There was nothing on the station beside talking to people. If you have simple cities, some easy minigames, like for mineral survey, or helping with this and that it could work and still be reasonable cheap to develop. And it would allow walking around the ship and maybe taking other people aboard.
X3 was just limited. There was nothing on the station beside talking to people. If you have simple cities, some easy minigames, like for mineral survey, or helping with this and that it could work and still be reasonable cheap to develop. And it would allow walking around the ship and maybe taking other people aboard.
I would be very happy if I could sit on a bench in a park on a ring, take a stroll past the gated community and then get the shuttle home to Space IBIS at the starport. Gazing at the stars through the transparent aluminium canopy probably wouldn't work as the glare from the streetlights and hydroponics would mask them and a peaceful stroll would probably be marred somewhat by Federation/Imperial propaganda blasting through the PA. The unicyclists and space didgeridoo buskers would annoy too. ;-)
Hmmmm...riots?
Ooooh, must remember to stock up on muscular entropy and bone mass maintenance nanites at the pharmacy. At my age the cheap genespliced stuff needs a bit of a boost. (please don't ever consider this as a mechanic)
Just sayin'
Hmmmm...riots?
Ooooh, must remember to stock up on muscular entropy and bone mass maintenance nanites at the pharmacy. At my age the cheap genespliced stuff needs a bit of a boost. (please don't ever consider this as a mechanic)
Just sayin'
I have the same fears as the OP. In my opinion walking in stations had a huge negative impact on the experience in X:Rebirth. The problem was, that you had to walk around in always the same ugly stations and talk to the same ugly characters for core functions of the game (e.g. hire crew). Ignoring the stations was no option.
But if nothing important is going on in stations, it will be also kind of boring.
I'm not against the feature, but it has to be very well executed. Walking inside the player ships and maybe around the ship inside of the hangar would be a good start.
But if nothing important is going on in stations, it will be also kind of boring.
I'm not against the feature, but it has to be very well executed. Walking inside the player ships and maybe around the ship inside of the hangar would be a good start.
It would be great, if implemented properly but I think the space part of the game needs to be expanded upon first. But I dream of landing on a planet and going to meet a contact in a seedy bar where I buy and sell illicit goods and arrange the death of a rival before being am set upon by local thugs. I fight my way to port and fly off as the federation ships begin landing. And as I fly of and the planet recedes into the distance, it explodes and smirk appears on my face my credit balance looks a lot healthier. But a frown appears on my face and I mutter "Damn. forgot to buy ammo".
Don't tell me you don't want to get out the ship every now and then...
Don't tell me you don't want to get out the ship every now and then...
This ain't X:Rebirth tho, and unlike X, these guys seem to have a knack with good graphics
Glad to see I'm not the only one feeling this way. Walking around stations, FPS mechanics and planetary landings are unnecessary distractions for FD, and are box-ticking exercises which is exactly what FD wanted to get away from by going to KS instead of a publisher.
Walking around stations has been tried in other similar games, and we've seen how pointless it is. It is fun for five minutes, but what's after that? Is it just a more cumbersome UI than what we currently have? Or is FD really thinking of building an RPG on top of Elite? It's either going to be a useless hindrance, or a shallow RPG experience.
Planetary landings is the same. I've seen people dreaming of visiting planets with varied cities, amazed at their majestic size. Not going to happen. You will have a handful of city types, which will be duplicated in various configurations around the galaxy. Once you've seen one, you've seen them all. The development effort to make planetary landings a fun and lasting gameplay mechanic are beyond the reach of FD - and I believe every developer on earth.
Same thing with flora and fauna. You will have Icy Planet 1, 2 and 3, Rocky Planet 1 and 2, etc. You can travel all the way up and down the west coast in the USA, but every strip mall will look the same.
I have zero interest in FPS gameplay in a space simulator, and almost zero belief that FD could make a compelling FPS game on top of Elite - us FPS gamers are generally a very different demographics than Elite players. We have been spoiled by extremely slick gameplay experiences so the expectations are sky high for FPS mechanics, and again, we've seen similarly resourced companies with no FPS dev experience fail miserably in their FPS endeavors.
FPS mechanics might work if FD and the Elite playerbase was more FPS-oriented, and if FD had background in FPS game development. But since neither is the case, scrap it.
One of the main reasons why I didn't get the unlimited expansions pass was that the planned expansions don't bring anything of value to the game beyond bloat and shallow mechanics.
For those saying "don't play the expansions, then": expansions take away development resources which could be better utilized in fleshing out the bare-bones game in its current state (missions, exploration, trading/economy, bounty hunting, piracy, lore/roleplaying). In their current (speculated) promised state they are just marketing ploys which will fall flat come release. They might bring a few more players, but any MMORPG or FPS player trying out E: D because "now it has this expansion which turns the game into a perfect hybrid of genres" will be bitterly disappointed and quit in disgust.
Everyone else will be disappointed by the high expectations set by other games which do the things FD is supposedly doing in expansions much better.
Don't turn E: D into a chimera, but concentrate on perfecting the already sublime, if unfinished, game. I'm sure your marketing department can come up with expansion which are organic and integral to the existing framework (Thargoids! Epic storylines involving ancient artifacts found around far reaches of the galaxy, or boozing and womanizing royals! More ships!)
Walking around stations has been tried in other similar games, and we've seen how pointless it is. It is fun for five minutes, but what's after that? Is it just a more cumbersome UI than what we currently have? Or is FD really thinking of building an RPG on top of Elite? It's either going to be a useless hindrance, or a shallow RPG experience.
Planetary landings is the same. I've seen people dreaming of visiting planets with varied cities, amazed at their majestic size. Not going to happen. You will have a handful of city types, which will be duplicated in various configurations around the galaxy. Once you've seen one, you've seen them all. The development effort to make planetary landings a fun and lasting gameplay mechanic are beyond the reach of FD - and I believe every developer on earth.
Same thing with flora and fauna. You will have Icy Planet 1, 2 and 3, Rocky Planet 1 and 2, etc. You can travel all the way up and down the west coast in the USA, but every strip mall will look the same.
I have zero interest in FPS gameplay in a space simulator, and almost zero belief that FD could make a compelling FPS game on top of Elite - us FPS gamers are generally a very different demographics than Elite players. We have been spoiled by extremely slick gameplay experiences so the expectations are sky high for FPS mechanics, and again, we've seen similarly resourced companies with no FPS dev experience fail miserably in their FPS endeavors.
FPS mechanics might work if FD and the Elite playerbase was more FPS-oriented, and if FD had background in FPS game development. But since neither is the case, scrap it.
One of the main reasons why I didn't get the unlimited expansions pass was that the planned expansions don't bring anything of value to the game beyond bloat and shallow mechanics.
For those saying "don't play the expansions, then": expansions take away development resources which could be better utilized in fleshing out the bare-bones game in its current state (missions, exploration, trading/economy, bounty hunting, piracy, lore/roleplaying). In their current (speculated) promised state they are just marketing ploys which will fall flat come release. They might bring a few more players, but any MMORPG or FPS player trying out E: D because "now it has this expansion which turns the game into a perfect hybrid of genres" will be bitterly disappointed and quit in disgust.
Everyone else will be disappointed by the high expectations set by other games which do the things FD is supposedly doing in expansions much better.
Don't turn E: D into a chimera, but concentrate on perfecting the already sublime, if unfinished, game. I'm sure your marketing department can come up with expansion which are organic and integral to the existing framework (Thargoids! Epic storylines involving ancient artifacts found around far reaches of the galaxy, or boozing and womanizing royals! More ships!)
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