Walking around stations may be a bad idea

[medwyn]

I have to agree with the OP.
Visually it would be stunning I'm sure but I wonder whether it would give any value to the gameplay. Without that it would only make the way longer between two gameplay event with more time consumed for the same purpose.
I could imagine an "around my ship" experience as a outside camera repertoire when I'm docked - a kind of "dock view" portfolio when I can look around my ship and enjoy it's appearance.

ED keeps me busy all the time which I enjoy quite much. I can't just leave my computer when flying as there's no automation in the process and that's great. It's all with purpose: managing my sub-systems, navigation, speed, target, etc.
Planetary landing will be something I'll look into as it sounds like something fitting in this pattern with more flying aspects simulated. Not sure how the "walk inside the station" could be different to the basic "WASD"-operations to get what we already have in the game.
But I guess FD has a good idea and I trust them

 

[Coolgroove]

From what I 've read here I believe the ability to get up leave your ship is in the offing at some point in the future.

Prior to ED being released a rival similar product introduced the ability to walk around stations as an expansion to what had been possible in previous games in the series. I think most fans of that series would agree it was a disaster (now gradually being fixed). The problem for that game was that each station interior was one of a small number of models and each station was populated by a small range of NPC characters - so you can fly half way across the galaxy to walk into an identical looking station to have an identical conversation with an NPC that looks identical to thousands of others. Interaction with those NPCs was then limited to a handful of brief scripted conversations and a simple mini-game.

Now I don't have a problem with the current limited number of station docking zone interiors in ED; the stations look terrific and taken with the range of outposts I'm happy. However unless FD put an enormous amount of effort into generating something that doesn't really seem central to an Elite game I worry that a first person experience out of the ships will necessarily be very limited and 'emersion breaking'. It's acceptable for one landing pad to look like another (even on a planet surface) but will walking down corridors identical to corridors lights years away and past people who seemingly have clones throughout the galaxy not be the ultimate immersion breaker? Perhaps FD are capable of producing station interiors and human models in a procedural manner to get the variation required to simulate a 'living, breaking universe' but it seems an epic undertaking to me.

There's also the question of what to do when you leave your spacecraft. If you can do everything you need to do from your spacecraft why bother leaving and therefore why bother tasking developers with working on such a peripheral aspect to the game? However if the player does need to leave their spacecraft to complete a task then there is the risk that process will become very tedious and repetitive slowing down the game. The rival product to ED implemented station walking as a required feature to play the game successfully and back-tracked rapidly in patches and revisions as players resented repeating out of ship tasks at each station they landed at.

I'm not saying that FD couldn't do an excellent job of implementing walking around stations. I'm just apprehensive that the scale of the task required to achieve that in a convincing, immersive way means that it could be a very long time before this feature would add to the quality of the game. This is time that could be spent on enhancing the core functionality of the game: better multiplayer, more varied missions etc., a wider rage of stations and outposts perhaps including some unique structures at key locations etc... We have to remember that FPS and PRG games are sophisticated undertakings in their own right.

So basically I'm worried that getting out of your spacecraft and walking around will necessarily expose the limitations of the simulation and actually be counter immersive.

Thoughts?

here we go again..... same s different game.

We don't know how it will be done, but I don't think it will be "walking down corridors identical to corridors lights years away... etc". Frontier make the game they want like to play, and I don't think that anyone would like to play a game with "identical/same to something lights years away". Plus we have "No Man's Sky" that took procedural generation to extreme (IMO), so the vision and tech for "making it right" is in active development.

So I'am excited about WIS/PL ( to be able to walk around ship/station and to land on a planet, get out of my ship and explore it ), and want it to be great. And I don't think that improvements to multiplayer/missions/stations won't happen, because of WIS/PL development. Maybe not so fast, but it'll be there.

I can understand that other people still don't like it. Solution is

When it comes, if you don't like it, don't do it

 

[DocMoriarty]

-1. Disagree completely. It depends on what you can do in the station. A great example of a game where you could walk around your ships AND stations was SWG (Star Wars Galaxies). It was the most genious space game to date, at least the space part. It should not be necessary to do the stuff we do now when docked in station outside your ship. But it should be possible to do it in the station too. The most boring part right now is when you do trade runs on a trade route without any distraction. I'd probably do most of it as usual but at some point i will leave the ship and visit the station bar or talk to the commodity market manager in person. Don't like it? Don't do it! But don't limit other users experience with your lack in imagination.

 

[777Driver]

I thought FD had already developed a FPS, Outsider, which never saw the light of day for various reasons, which was very much like GTA using the same engine? If so, then the ability to drop this in as a DLC should be quite easy and if procedurally generated, could be a good addition. http://www.frontier.co.uk/games/outsider/outsider_media/

But as others have said, if you don't want it, don't purchase the DLC

Exactly, don't use the free roam DLC if you don't want to. Problem solved. I get a huge amount of enjoyment walking around the bridge of the large ships in the rift, and standing under a Type-7 or Clipper is a sight to behold. I would like to have the option to visit the other rooms in the ships, walk around the pads, or perhaps stand on a barren desert planet and watch 3 suns setting on the horizon.

It's all about choice. Nobody is being forced to buy the DLC.

 

[Ghost1]

From what I 've read here I believe the ability to get up leave your ship is in the offing at some point in the future.

Prior to ED being released a rival similar product introduced the ability to walk around stations as an expansion to what had been possible in previous games in the series. I think most fans of that series would agree it was a disaster (now gradually being fixed). The problem for that game was that each station interior was one of a small number of models and each station was populated by a small range of NPC characters - so you can fly half way across the galaxy to walk into an identical looking station to have an identical conversation with an NPC that looks identical to thousands of others. Interaction with those NPCs was then limited to a handful of brief scripted conversations and a simple mini-game.

Now I don't have a problem with the current limited number of station docking zone interiors in ED; the stations look terrific and taken with the range of outposts I'm happy. However unless FD put an enormous amount of effort into generating something that doesn't really seem central to an Elite game I worry that a first person experience out of the ships will necessarily be very limited and 'emersion breaking'. It's acceptable for one landing pad to look like another (even on a planet surface) but will walking down corridors identical to corridors lights years away and past people who seemingly have clones throughout the galaxy not be the ultimate immersion breaker? Perhaps FD are capable of producing station interiors and human models in a procedural manner to get the variation required to simulate a 'living, breaking universe' but it seems an epic undertaking to me.

There's also the question of what to do when you leave your spacecraft. If you can do everything you need to do from your spacecraft why bother leaving and therefore why bother tasking developers with working on such a peripheral aspect to the game? However if the player does need to leave their spacecraft to complete a task then there is the risk that process will become very tedious and repetitive slowing down the game. The rival product to ED implemented station walking as a required feature to play the game successfully and back-tracked rapidly in patches and revisions as players resented repeating out of ship tasks at each station they landed at.

I'm not saying that FD couldn't do an excellent job of implementing walking around stations. I'm just apprehensive that the scale of the task required to achieve that in a convincing, immersive way means that it could be a very long time before this feature would add to the quality of the game. This is time that could be spent on enhancing the core functionality of the game: better multiplayer, more varied missions etc., a wider rage of stations and outposts perhaps including some unique structures at key locations etc... We have to remember that FPS and PRG games are sophisticated undertakings in their own right.

So basically I'm worried that getting out of your spacecraft and walking around will necessarily expose the limitations of the simulation and actually be counter immersive.

Thoughts?

100% disagree and go with you have no imagination or vision..faith you appear to have some, but not much. No way this will ruin the game, i swear the one thing the plagues the forums. i dont understand how this will ruin the game or "be counter immersive."

i think it will add in so much more the sci-fi and lore on the universe. Give an idea what life is like for humanity in Elite, show us what soliders and military's look like in the empires. Also you'd be able to see what thargoids look like threw first person.

No it wont ruin it, it will make it much more deeper. So tired of people complaining about new idea's for this game, it's like this game has to be the same 1993 game with the same ships same mechanics, and anything new will be shot down. Yall need to relax an let this game
grow. i'm sure it will be fantastic game with the FPS mode. which im super excited for, i can't wait to see what kind of outfits and weapons i can give my pilot.

 

[Vasea Azure]

Exactly, don't use the free roam DLC if you don't want to. Problem solved. I get a huge amount of enjoyment walking around the bridge of the large ships in the rift, and standing under a Type-7 or Clipper is a sight to behold. I would like to have the option to visit the other rooms in the ships, walk around the pads, or perhaps stand on a baron desert planet and watch 3 suns setting on the horizon.

It's all about choice. Nobody is being forced to buy the DLC.

Pretty much - there is not that huge amount of stuff you can do in ED at the moment so expanding the game outside the ship can only be a nice addition.

 

[Rock-Hermit]

And look - we are stuck in beautifully crafted, but somehow claustrophobic cockpits and can't even see how our ship looks like - we need to be able to go outside. Now.

+1, what a tragic waste of potential if all we can ever do is look at these beautiful environments through a glass canopy, forever stuck to a cockpit seat.

 

[Ghost1]

i'd also like to add, im excited to see the large variety of weapons and armour types. A game this big you know it will have a huge plethora of weapons. Also it will bring in many many more people to E

 

[DocMoriarty]

Add to that the facts that it's been tried in X-Rebirth, and didn't work so well (see OP), and that Eve Online has been working on this for years and still hasn't implemented it. And it has a lot more resources and is also a lot further down that path.

Taking the 2 worst implementations of such functionality isn't really helping the discussion. A great example of how it could be was Star Wars Galaxies with walkable ships AND stations.

 

[Wicz]

I don't really care either way about walking around space stations or ships.

I'm looking forward to landing on planets though

 

[nexxo]

I think it can be done.

Rather than try to populate a whole station with npcs I would look at just doing various settings within the station and use a transit system like a tram to take players to and from locations (to load them into a instance of the setting) These could be corporation offices where you meet the npcs behind the missions on the boards. A pub where players can be social and interact with each other and play darts or pool, or a garden area if it is an agriculture station.

We would be able to walk around our ships and inside of them also as well as invite other players into them.

To try and do a whole station it would be like trying to create the whole of New York or London in space and populate it with millions of npcs. Just not really possible to do or practical.

Same could go for planet side cities and ports.

As for planet landings that have no cities or populations then these would be PG.


You could then mix it up with the FPS element during a war or civil war in a system where players could go planet side and try to take key locations in a shooter type combat using a cover system like Ghost Recon or GTA V. Where teams will face off against each other to either defend or attack. If there are not enough players then the simulation will put into place bots to make up the team lacking in players.

That's all fine, but how many stations exist in this galaxy? A few thousand? And you'd have to create some variety in all of them. OK: procedurally generate the spaces. However you need to ensure a very wide variety of resources to randomly generate. Then you have to do the same with the characters. Then you have to write a branching dialogue, and then you have to add voice acting or a realistic enough voice synthesis, with enough variety so you don't visit ten different stations and get the feeling you're talking to the same characters again, saying the same thing. In fact, you have to create more than 100 different characters and dialogues; about 200 for people with good memories. It's a lot of work.

 

[Vasea Azure]

It will happen sooner or later - FD are pretty hyped about first person part: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yd-m9AR7m

 

[777Driver]

+1, what a tragic waste of potential if all we can ever do is look at these beautiful environments through a glass canopy, forever stuck to a cockpit seat.

Well you are not stuck to yout seat, CV1 will probably be released before the DLC. If you cant wait then get a DK2, you can get up and walk around. Viewing the ships full size in outfitting is also one of my favorite things to do. You can walk and look around the ship in the docking bay, the only limit is you are confined to the area of each hardpoint.

Cant wait to have complete freedom implemented.

 

[Nøhr]

I don't know how much traveling OP has done, you know, in real life. I've seen a few harbours in my life, and I must say, they do tend to look alike - something about form and function.
Varying degrees of wear and tear of course, minor differences in size and culture will add colour to a harbour - but the layout is generally the same, because it serves the same purpose.
Like airports, bus stations.
I assume that the different stations let's take the Coriolis, are manufactured by the same companies, thus the blueprints are identical, probably modular by design.
That will mean that they overall layout of a Coriolis will be same as any other ditto, the difference being only in surface decorations and what shop/office/living quarter module is assigned to each module.

Maybe a coat of paint is the only difference? This is like not wanting to have houses built, because they might be too similar to each other...

As for NPC's to populate the stations, you can only create a certain number, and then vary the parameters for them, sort of like the limits we have, as humans, shaped by the DNA, the variation is minimal.
You know, two arms, two eyes, one head etc.

I have no problem with immersing myself into a world of humans that look sort of similar in places that look sort of similar, as this happens all the time in real life.

Now planets on the other hand, apart from the same spherical shape, will be quite a different matter. There will be planets you can't land on for fear of your ship being destroyed by whatever natural phenomenons are prevalent on the surface. Some planets will be vast barren rocks, some will be gaseous, a precious few will be safe to visit, and even fewer will have an atmosphere we can breathe.

I'm so looking forward to any iteration of this delicious space sim.


Also; as others have said, if you don't want to see the insides of stations, don't leave your ship when the time comes? Play the game as you have played it so far?

 

[the100thmonkey]

I don't know about anyone else here (or even if it's on the development plan), but I'd love to be able to bust out a plasma rifle and raid a station on foot, or be ejected from a dropship and storm a planetary outpost. It could play just like rush on BF3/4 or frontline mode on Fuel of War.

Objective based sandbox sci-fi gameplay... MMmmmmm...

 

[Cristari]

Prior to ED being released a rival similar product introduced the ability to walk around stations as an expansion to what had been possible in previous games in the series.

I would like to know the name of this game?

I think you are expecting way too much if you are in favour of walking around the space stations, ships and planets or if you are one of those not wanting to be able to do this are missing the fact that FD want this.

Personally I want to be able to walk about and interact with my ship, I want to land on the surface of a planet, moon or even asteroid, I want to be able to walk around the landing pad and the corridors of the station. I dont mind if the NPC's in the background have familiar faces and if the odd interactive NPC has a similar face as the one on the last station again that doesn't bother me too much as I appreciate there is a heck of a lot of work that would need to go into making every NPC an individual and every station distinguishable from the last.

 

[nexxo]

Taking the 2 worst implementations of such functionality isn't really helping the discussion. A great example of how it could be was Star Wars Galaxies with walkable ships AND stations.

As far as I can tell that involves text based dialogue and simple, repetitive NPC animation. It doesn't fit the immersion of the rest of the game.

 

[Linwig]

Couldn't disagree more with the OP, but the good news is you don't have to buy the expansion so everyone is happy. Some people love the idea of being immersed in a fully open world game and I think you will find that includes the people who are making it! No one has done it on this scale before and I can't see anyone else doing it as well as Fdev, This could be absolutely stunning if it pulls off.

 

[Alex Hughes]

It's great that some people are confident that walking around stations will be a success; this is just a friendly discussion. Btw, I backed the project at the KS stage and will get all the DLC free. I just want ED to continue being a critical and commercial success.

 

[Jack Luminous]

Personally I'd love to be able to walk outside my ship, check out the scratches on the canopy, then go for a stroll around the station if for nothing else than just admiring the view, and - most importantly - land on planets, wondering at new vistas that no-one has seen before. I'm also pretty sure that FD have something more in mind than just a maze of empty corridors replicated around the galaxy...aaaand in the worst case scenario everyone will still have the option of not buying the DLC or simply not leaving their ships.