The larger numbered shield cells do come with more charges, and the B shield cells also have more charges.
D1 has 4, C1 has 5, B1 has 6, A1 has 4
D3 has 6, C3 has 8, B3 has 10 and A3 has 6.
I'm sure it will be similar for larger ones.
The Shield discussion thread
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The larger numbered shield cells do come with more charges, and the B shield cells also have more charges.
D1 has 4, C1 has 5, B1 has 6, A1 has 4
D3 has 6, C3 has 8, B3 has 10 and A3 has 6.
I'm sure it will be similar for larger ones.
Cell Shield is imbalanced
Why?
Explain. Fight in PVP lasts no more than about 5 minutes, these cells allow for all these 5 minutes to save the shield. You say the same put cell and use. But! Firstly, some ships can not equip them properly is just not enough slots. Second, when using cells lost meaning power management. Third, if so the presence of cells shield really necessary in the game, then let they will give a negative bonus, the use of this advantage should affect the overall fit, increased power consumption, or a significant decrease in maneuverability, or some more options. At the same time their use is in most cases imbalanced.
I write this not just because of the fact that I can't kill, this balanced view of the analysis of several fights with opponents without cells and with cells.
What do you think about this? Interested in the opinion of PVP players.
Why?
Explain. Fight in PVP lasts no more than about 5 minutes, these cells allow for all these 5 minutes to save the shield. You say the same put cell and use. But! Firstly, some ships can not equip them properly is just not enough slots. Second, when using cells lost meaning power management. Third, if so the presence of cells shield really necessary in the game, then let they will give a negative bonus, the use of this advantage should affect the overall fit, increased power consumption, or a significant decrease in maneuverability, or some more options. At the same time their use is in most cases imbalanced.
I write this not just because of the fact that I can't kill, this balanced view of the analysis of several fights with opponents without cells and with cells.
What do you think about this? Interested in the opinion of PVP players.
I agree shield cells are overpowered, especially with the current inability of the AI to use them properly. The subject keeps coming up lately.
My suggestion would be to significantly nerf them as such:
* limit to one module per ship
* one or two shield recharges per module only, depending on rating
* very high recharge cost (10,000cr+)
* shield cell of a lower class than the shield generator should not be able to recharge the shield. Want to recharge a CL5 shield, get a CL5 shield cell.
This way, shield cells remain very powerful but require significant trade-offs.
EDIT: and the AI should properly use them *before* their shield collapses
My suggestion would be to significantly nerf them as such:
* limit to one module per ship
* one or two shield recharges per module only, depending on rating
* very high recharge cost (10,000cr+)
* shield cell of a lower class than the shield generator should not be able to recharge the shield. Want to recharge a CL5 shield, get a CL5 shield cell.
This way, shield cells remain very powerful but require significant trade-offs.
EDIT: and the AI should properly use them *before* their shield collapses
I agree shield cells are overpowered, especially with the current inability of the AI to use them properly. The subject keeps coming up lately.
My suggestion would be to significantly nerf them as such:
* limit to one module per ship
* one or two shield recharges per module only, depending on rating
* very high recharge cost (10,000cr+)
* shield cell of a lower class than the shield generator should not be able to recharge the shield. Want to recharge a CL5 shield, get a CL5 shield cell.
This way, shield cells remain very powerful but require significant trade-offs.
EDIT: and the AI should properly use them *before* their shield collapses
* limit to one module per ship - (Yes)
* one or two shield recharges per module only, depending on rating- (No)
* very high recharge cost (10,000cr+) - (No)
* shield cell of a lower class than the shield generator should not be able to recharge the shield. Want to recharge a CL5 shield, get a CL5 shield cell. - (No, over-complicated)
* and the AI should properly use them *before* their shield collapses - (Yes)
If I only had 1-2 charges, and or the charges were too expensive, I would stop using the cell. They are fine as they currently are in terms of performance.
We'll have to agree to disagree there. Currently, shield cells are basically 4 extra lives for cheap and makes energy management largely pointless. At best they just make combats drag on and on, and at worst they allow to completely cheese the game; we really shouldn't be able to destroy an Elite Anaconda single-handedly with a Cobra by spamming shield cells.
They really should be used as a (costly) last resort to get out of tricky situation. Not to win combats by attrition.
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I agree shield cells are overpowered, especially with the current inability of the AI to use them properly. The subject keeps coming up lately.
My suggestion would be to significantly nerf them as such:
* limit to one module per ship
* one or two shield recharges per module only, depending on rating
* very high recharge cost (10,000cr+)
* shield cell of a lower class than the shield generator should not be able to recharge the shield. Want to recharge a CL5 shield, get a CL5 shield cell.
This way, shield cells remain very powerful but require significant trade-offs.
EDIT: and the AI should properly use them *before* their shield collapses
In my opinion, really sensible suggestion. Only cost recharge not 10k, less.
Nobody's forcing you to use them. If you don't like them, don't use them. If your target is using them and it's actually extending the fight that much longer, then you aren't as good a pilot as you think you are. You should be able to overpower a target using a shield cell.
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Shield cell class doesn't dictate how much of the shield it boosts. Shield cell class dictates how many charges it holds, which does drive the price up for more charges. Some ships, like the Python, NEED two shield cells fired simultaneously to boost the shield back up. That's twice the cost, right there. Seems balanced, to me.
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10,000cr is just a random number. The recharge cost should depend on the shield cell class really. The cell recharge for an Eagle should obviously cost much less than for a Clipper (which already has exorbitant operating costs anyway
Shield cell class doesn't dictate how much of the shield it boosts. Shield cell class dictates how many charges it holds, which does drive the price up for more charges. Some ships, like the Python, NEED two shield cells fired simultaneously to boost the shield back up. That's twice the cost, right there. Seems balanced, to me.
I thought that was the rating. Doesn't the class dictate the amount of "shield points" restored? I'm not sure.
The "don't like it, don't use it" argument doesn't hold any water in a PvP environment by the way. If something can be abused, it *will* be abused, and you will be at a disadvantage by not using it.
Anyways, I'm not arguing against how shield cells should work, but I'm arguing for toning them down a notch or two. But more importantly, make sure the AI can use them properly as it is too easy to cheese the game by spamming shield cells against target that really should be way out of your league. I'd like to reiterate that an Elite Anaconda should be the scariest thing ever for a single small/medium sized ship, but they actually don't represent much of a danger against a reasonably rigged Cobra with one or two shield cells modules. There's definitely an issue here if you ask me.
Double Heatsink/Chaff/Shield Cell Bank?
So, if I had two or more than two of any of these equipment on my ship, if I push the dedicated button (not firegroup since I need both for weapons), does the game chain-fire them and use them one at a time, or does the game fire all of the same equipment all at once?
(And could I carry more than one Shield Cell Bank?)
So, if I had two or more than two of any of these equipment on my ship, if I push the dedicated button (not firegroup since I need both for weapons), does the game chain-fire them and use them one at a time, or does the game fire all of the same equipment all at once?
(And could I carry more than one Shield Cell Bank?)
Both at once.
You need to assign a trigger for each on the fire groups.
You need to assign a trigger for each on the fire groups.
In my experience (which is limited to Shield Cells, so I can't really speak to the Heatsink/Chaff portion, though I would imagine it's the same), having multiple shield cells just increases the total amount at your disposal - "firing" your cells with the dedicated button (I've got it mapped through Voice Attack) uses only one cell.
If you are using an assigned button for the shield cell (which is preferable, because you don't want them to clutter your firegroups) and have multiple ones, just disable one you don't want to use in Modules menu. Once the other one is depleted, switch it off and enable the first one.
If you have no luck very locally Altair is about 60 ly away from you and has some good high spec equipment. if you have trouble getting a route try going via LTT 7448
But the "thank goodness NPCs don't" highlights the central problem. They completely mess up the combat gameplay of the game, and make a mockery of any NPC rated above mostly harmless. If they supposedly know what they are doing, to the tune of being the veteran of a hundred victorious battles, why are they not using the single most effective piece of tech for a combat craft?
Either NPCs need to start using them (and for Cthulhu's sake, make them fly with shields!!), or they need to be removed. I think using a slot for a "auxiliary shield generator" could be the proper replacement tech. Have it speed up shield recharge, or add energy to the Systems bar... but get rid of the game breaking healing bottles >.< terrible fantasy MMO 101 stuff.
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This I could live with. I'd prefer them to be gone though.
All it is needed, is for the usage of shield cells to generate enough heat so that triggering one becomes a decision to be weighted, instead of something used automatically. There must be downside of using a shield cell in the context of the battle, not just at the time of resupply. If using a shield cell generates enough heat to make players consider pairing them with heatsink launchers to keep firing guns and boosting while using them, then it would also achieve to not only occupy the otherwise unused internals of a combat dedicated craft, but also indirectly affect the utility slots allocation and/or the ship's heat efficiency considerations.
Yeah, agreed. Shield cells are implemented in literally the worst way. There are so many more interesting ways to do them
For example, you could do something like:
-Make a shield cell occupy a weapons slot. You sacrifice offense for defense
-Instead of it being a shield potion, make it a blocking mechanic
-Your shields overcharge, generate a ton of heat (or some other drawback), and make you really, really durable for a short temporary time of 0.5-1 seconds with a cooldown to prevent spamming
-now becomes context sensitive, useless for the unskilled who can't predict when they're going to need to block something, and about skill instead of who brought the most shield potions
It doesn't have to be that. But ANYTHING would be better than shield potions.
Half of me hopes that Frontier makes the A.I abuse shield cells just as much as players do, just to get the point across.
Gonna repost what I said in another thread about this, sorry if it has been mentioned in this one before:
All it is needed, is for the usage of shield cells to generate enough heat so that triggering one becomes a decision to be weighted, instead of something used automatically. There must be downside of using a shield cell in the context of the battle, not just at the time of resupply. If using a shield cell generates enough heat to make players consider pairing them with heatsink launchers to keep firing guns and boosting while using them, then it would also achieve to not only occupy the otherwise unused internals of a combat dedicated craft, but also indirectly affect the utility slots allocation and/or the ship's heat efficiency considerations.
All it is needed, is for the usage of shield cells to generate enough heat so that triggering one becomes a decision to be weighted, instead of something used automatically. There must be downside of using a shield cell in the context of the battle, not just at the time of resupply. If using a shield cell generates enough heat to make players consider pairing them with heatsink launchers to keep firing guns and boosting while using them, then it would also achieve to not only occupy the otherwise unused internals of a combat dedicated craft, but also indirectly affect the utility slots allocation and/or the ship's heat efficiency considerations.