Am I the only one not understanding all the fuss?

You know what would solve a lot of these issues? If there was no real way to easily differentiate between NPC and human players (besides comms).

With that in mind, here's a hypothetical question:

Elite NPCs should be as, if not more, equipped and deadly then 99% of the human players out there. If there was no way to tell if it was NPC or human, and the NPC AI was appropriately programmed, what would the response be?
 
Interesting - so, if a player does not like PvP and is irritated by another player attacking them - does that mean that that constitutes griefing? I don't think that that is what you meant.

In the Wikipedia article you linked to it includes the following:



.... and destroying a player's ship is affecting their progress (in terms of credit balance). Not everyone will agree with all of the examples in the article, just as not everyone will agree that it is limited to the definition that you propose.

I think what you consider PvP and what I consider PvP are two different things.

I suspect you consider PvP, is using a kitted viper or cobra to blow unshielded haulers to dust.
I'd consider PvP, two combat ships going toe to toe.
 
So why don't people go to a conflict zone and pvp there? All the ships are combat ships right? Why would someone only 'pvp' defenseless traders?

I suppose the same reason privateers did it, if the game is about shaping the verse, harrassing trade lane is one way of doing it if wanting to weaken a faction. It's a legit method of waging war, even the job boards offer a "letters of marque" in one form or another.

You can go to a war zone also, or you can stop the goods being delivered were a coup d'etat may be taking place. if a place become unsafe to trade, trader will move on from there unless security or bounty hunters patrol the system more frequently.
 
I would say playing games is a very normal situation and since games were created 'killing' has been a huge part of them. And hell, it's better than something more brutal like boxing. Don't even get me started on our more pre-dated games....

anyway, if you don't want to fight back join a group, play solo, RUN....


its not a matter of the motovation or lack of common sense of the person who doesnt want to fight.

the question is to the person who wants to start the fight with those who do not want to.

That is not PvP.

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I suppose the same reason privateers did it, if the game is about shaping the verse, harrassing trade lane is one way of doing it if wanting to weaken a faction. It's a legit method of waging war, even the job boards offer a "letters of marque" in one form or another.

You can go to a war zone also, or you can stop the goods being delivered were a coup d'etat may be taking place. if a place become unsafe to trade, trader will move on from there unless security or bounty hunters patrol the system more frequently.

totally agree! but that is not what we are talking about here.

attacking a player to make more money then you could otherwise/...check we get that.
attacking a player who wants to fight you and has called you a punk?...check we get that.
attacking a player who is in a clan/guild and you are at war with them?...totally get that.

attacking a player that is mining and not related to any war you are with and doesnt have much of anything interesting?....sociopathic
 
its not a matter of the motovation or lack of common sense of the person who doesnt want to fight.

the question is to the person who wants to start the fight with those who do not want to.

That is not PvP.

Why do you refer to this want's to fight. Like I said, if you don't want to PVP take one of the many precautions to not PVP! What do you expect? Am I to stop, open comms and ask if it's ok to pirate you? Come on! From my point of view, by taking the option of playing in a PVP zone you 'want' to PVP, otherwise you wouldn't be there.

That's what open is, PVP along with other things.
 
Why do you refer to this want's to fight. Like I said, if you don't want to PVP take one of the many precautions to not PVP! What do you expect? Am I to stop, open comms and ask if it's ok to pirate you? Come on! From my point of view, by taking the option of playing in a PVP zone you 'want' to PVP, otherwise you wouldn't be there.

That's what open is, PVP along with other things.

that is evading the question and blaming someone else for your actions.

there are two kinds of pvp

1. a challenge between two people who want to compete.
2. someone practicing at the gym so that they can beat up the kid at the library just because you can.

your excuse is 'well the kid should not have been there'
 
that is evading the question and blaming someone else for your actions.

there are two kinds of pvp

1. a challenge between two people who want to compete.
2. someone practicing at the gym so that they can beat up the kid at the library just because you can.

your excuse is 'well the kid should not have been there'

But in a game like this we've also got a third type, since things like pirating and bounty hunting are part of the game (and you can rack up a bounty without shooting human players). I don't want to lose my cargo to a pirate but it would get very boring for me if there was zero chance of that happening, and it's already pretty unlikely.
 
that is evading the question and blaming someone else for your actions.

there are two kinds of pvp

1. a challenge between two people who want to compete.
2. someone practicing at the gym so that they can beat up the kid at the library just because you can.

your excuse is 'well the kid should not have been there'

HAHA! Nice try, but it's not at all like that.

It's more like the library kid going to the gym, (lets say there is a boxing ring there) and getting in the boxing ring with some gloves on. Then wondering why someone hit him.
 
HAHA! Nice try, but it's not at all like that.

It's more like the library kid going to the gym, (lets say there is a boxing ring there) and getting in the boxing ring with some gloves on. Then wondering why someone hit him.

actually no.

it more like the boxer going 'you know what, no I dont want to proove myself in the ring I really do not want to fight someone who wants to fight I would rather beat up on someone in the audience'

Now here is the thing about your logic.

IT DOESNT EXPLAIN WHY YOU LIKE IT.

it only justifies your action in your mind which isnt what my question is about. I want to know WHY you and other like to do it.

EDIT: or maybe an even closer example is one boxer going to the other boxers locker room and beating up on him. or starting the fight before the bell rings.
 
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its not a matter of the motovation or lack of common sense of the person who doesnt want to fight.

the question is to the person who wants to start the fight with those who do not want to.

That is not PvP.

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totally agree! but that is not what we are talking about here.

attacking a player to make more money then you could otherwise/...check we get that.
attacking a player who wants to fight you and has called you a punk?...check we get that.
attacking a player who is in a clan/guild and you are at war with them?...totally get that.

The bottom line is that you're playing in open, designed with unrestricted PVP in mind. You are a participant and quite frankly have no say as to whether or not you want to fight or not - the choice you have is to run.

attacking a player that is mining and not related to any war you are with and doesnt have much of anything interesting?....sociopathic
Can be interpretted as an attack on your cargo in order to gain a quick buck from the high value materials, or the desire to gain a larger bounty on their head so they themselves become a more desirable target for bounty hunters.
Again, you're in a competitive unrestricted environment. Stop being stupid about it and calling players sociopaths just because they never gave you the heads up.
 
Ultimately, isn't solo VS open really just another method of implementing PVE / PVP? I tend to enjoy PVP in my games and so in this game I play in open.

If I'm in the mood to enjoy the game but not deal with other people, I'll play solo. It's nice that I don't have to roll a new character on a PVE server to have those quiet times.

So, the only real difference is being able to switch between the two. I think that's great. Now, it's a little bit cheesy that you can quit the game and switch to solo the moment that you get attacked by another human, but if it's really a huge problem let it be addressed on it's own. Maybe you can't quit while in combat or something.

Honestly, knowing the mentality of PVP "griefers", I predict that most of the people who are going to quit and switch to solo mid-battle are going to be the pirates who suddenly realize that they bit off more than they could chew when their prey puts up a good fight.
 
actually no.

it more like the boxer going 'you know what, no I dont want to proove myself in the ring I really do not want to fight someone who wants to fight I would rather beat up on someone in the audience'

Now here is the thing about your logic.

IT DOESNT EXPLAIN WHY YOU LIKE IT.

it only justifies in the action in your mind which isnt what my question is about. I want to know WHY you and other like to do it.

By playing in open you are in the ring. If I came into your solo experience and started a fight would be like come for the audience.

AND I HAVE EXPLAINED WHY I LIKE IT!

I like the unsimulated competitiveness. I would much prefer my target to enjoy the experience, but I can't control that if people that don't want to pvp come into my pvp killing fields.

And why are we shouting? ;)
 
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The bottom line is that you're playing in open, designed with unrestricted PVP in mind. You are a participant and quite frankly have no say as to whether or not you want to fight or not - the choice you have is to run.
Is it unrestricted because the devs are happy with any sort of behaviour in-game that you could possibly imagine, or that there's potentially some undesirable behaviour they'd rather not happen but putting in mechanisms to prevent it would do the game more harm than good? The odds of running into someone just out to kick people for the sake of it are extremely slim after all.
 
By playing in open you are in the ring. If I came into your solo experience and started a fight would be like come for the audience.

AND I HAVE EXPLAINED WHY I LIKE IT!

I like the unsimulated competitiveness. I would much prefer my target to enjoy the experience, but I can't control that if people that don't want to pvp come into my pvp killing fields.

And why are we shouting? ;)

you keep making it about the other person.

you still havent answered the question. Why do YOU like doing it that way

why that person is there and that they should not have been there has nothing to do with the question.

if you have two boxers and one of them says 'hold on I am busy right now, want to fight at 10pm I will kick you down if you think you can beat me'
then THAT is a fight. not knocking him down while he is tieing his shoe.

but regardless of if its justified or not WHY is still unanswered
 
I think a proper separation of Solo and Open would be best. People who don't want to be bothered by other people can play Solo and affect their own galaxy at their own pace, without having people in Open mode influencing their Solo play and making their efforts worthless. People in Online don't have to be scared of people safe-trading to insane wealth in Solo mode only to join Open to blast away people for the hell of it.

The current state of "switch at will" is diluting both game modes, in my opinion, hurting both the Solo and the Online experience. Let us have more than one CMDR and separate the two modes.

Exactly what I said in another post. Seperation of online and single is best way to make this game better
 
Repost from this closed thread. This thread is about pretty much the same topic, with the same arguments. and the other thread got closed before people could answer so:

Seonid said:
That's simply the way ED is, you could potentially get interdicted by an Elite NPC Anaconda on your first SC jump if the gods of RNG are angry at you.
The concept of "starter areas" and level appropriate content simply does not exist. As my sig says, it's simply the way the game is.

Why doesn't it exist though? In Frontier and First Encounters, Sol, Achernar and the neighbouring star systems were safe while the outer systems were swarmed with pirates. So what I am asking is entirely in the spirit of the predecessors. Safe "Starter areas" (Sol, Barnard's Star, Achernar, Facece) were present in the previous games!

And also about the point with the "there are 400 billion star systems, you wouldn't see other players anyway". Well, this argument goes both ways, doesn't it? If all these starsystems separate the players anway, why the need for the additonal seperation due the various game modes? My guess is that most players are actually hanging around the more populated systems, but can't see each other due the various game modes.


Dabba said:
The OP blames it on Frontiers attempts to segregate the players, but in reality it is the players that have decided to segregate themselves

Well yes... that's still Frontier's fault though. If Activision would allow an unlimited ammo cheat in COD online, then most people would use it too. I don't want them to remove solo mode, but, there's far more than solo mode here: We have seamless switching between solo and multi, AND ban lists and blocking AND private groups AND heavy instancing. COME ON! That's way over the top to segregate the players. Giving ALL this option to hides is a bit much and too easy. Like I said, it's like stuffing up a children with chocolate (god mode for traders) instead of taking care of its problems (safe areas, heavy policing of those). This game works more like a "map" in Warcraft 3 and Starcraft than an open universe. A shame, really.

Dabba said:
Its going to die, DIE I TELL YOU! Now Im going to sing the doom song! Doomy doomy doom doom!

Frontier and Elite have been around for 30 years, its not going anywhere, its in no danger of dying. Have no fear.

No, this game is actually not around for 30 years. Elite is 30 years old, but the last game of this series was released almost 20 years ago! This is actually not an established franchise in the vein Tomb Raider and Call of Duty is with games every 2-3 years. And look at all complaints here about this game being "boring". The sterile universe due all the segregation is a huge reason for that. FD can't sit on its laurels just because the first game was released 30 years ago. ED should be actually an experimental project, but unfortunately the developers are on a heavy nostalgia trip and limit themselves to the 1984 game (the ELITE sequels were far more daring than ED!) This is not quite what I have expected.


Dabba said:
To people who want to haul cargo all day risk free, what exactly does this game offer that truck simulator doesnt? Space, spaceships, planets, stars, black holes, hyperspace, pirates, bounty hunters, factions, civil wars, I could go on, but I think you get the point.

Can't you see the possibility how funnier all this could get if the waring factions, pirates, bounty hunters .. could be partly human? That's what I am talking about. An open universe doesn't mean automatically "griefing". And against "griefing", safe areas with heavy policing would be far better and far more organically in-game than all this extreme separation.
 
You know what would solve a lot of these issues? If there was no real way to easily differentiate between NPC and human players (besides comms).

With that in mind, here's a hypothetical question:

Elite NPCs should be as, if not more, equipped and deadly then 99% of the human players out there. If there was no way to tell if it was NPC or human, and the NPC AI was appropriately programmed, what would the response be?

For me? It would make me play exclusively solo (as in, I wouldn't even join groups).

I don't attack other players unprovoked. Never, ever; not wired for that. Not knowing if the ship on my sights is a player or a NPC would effectively prevent me from playing, which would make me stay in a mode where I was sure of whether the ship was a NPC or a player: solo mode, where there are no other players around.
 
Exactly what I said in another post. Seperation of online and single is best way to make this game better

there are a small subset of pvp players who do not want to pvp people who want to pvp but would rather pvp with people who dont.

I dont think a very few developers are going to work too hard for that part of the gaming population
 
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