Balance this balance that ... No !

[Luniticisi]

I am so bored of hearing that some play styles are more profitable than others and that they need to be balanced ... They don't.

there are many viable ways in the game to make money, but how can you "Balance" that against someone who has worked their way up to a Type 9 ?

Of course someone with a massive trading ship is going to make more credits than a bounty hunter/pirate or a miner ..

I know that FD said that they didn't want to make one play style more profitable than another, but what does that mean ? .. are we going to be seeing 1.000.000 credit bounty's on NPC's ?, Are we going to see Platinum asteroids with 99% chunks flying off of them?

No because that will seriously unbalance the game .. the balance is already there ..

Sorry you can't make as much cash as a trader in a massive ship (and BTW I don't) ..

you can't go making every play style equal, For a lot of people combat is the most enjoyable part of the game .. so why not reward the "less interesting" parts of the game more.

I think the balance is just fine as it is, If FD balanced (for example) bounty hunting Vs a huge trading ship, a skilled player starting out in a stock sidewinder could be making as much money as someone who has built up their way to a massive trading ship .. no balance there ..

the balance is good, there is no rush to the top, just sit back and enjoy the ride ....

and ... Happy new year

 

[Lobstris]

Amen. (And another 'Amen', and a 'Testify Brother!', to take this message over 8 characters).

 

[Dabba]

[video=youtube_share;hFDcoX7s6rE]http://youtu.be/hFDcoX7s6rE[/video]

Good song, bad attitude.

I still think bounty hunting and exploration could use some upwards balancing to bring it at least a little closer to trading. Business and trading should always be the alpha dog of earning obviously, because thats reality (seriously who is the richest and most famous bounty hunter in the world, Dog? and if his worth is in the 8 figures Ill be shocked, as opposed to the top corporate bigwigs worth billions) and this is a space sim, but the professions should be much closer to one another in balance and upward mobility than they currently are.

 

[Rearden]

So you're saying that it is perfectly fine for example for a profession that is exactly like trading (aka smuggling) but has more risk (fines and reputation) should pay less?

Please never make computer games. Thanks

 

[Luniticisi]

So you're saying that it is perfectly fine for example for a profession that is exactly like trading (aka smuggling) but has more risk (fines and reputation) should pay less?

Please never make computer games. Thanks

Not at all, but the fact is that smuggling can be done for 100% profit by visiting Uss's and picking up the cargo left by destroyed ships .. 100% profit, no lay out .. no investment .. just the risk of being scanned (which is pretty easy to avoid if you remember you are carrying stolen goods) .. it can be done from day ONE of your game .. why should it make more credits that someone who has worked up to a great trading/hunting/pirating ship?

Edit: and don't worry I never plan to make any games in the future

 

[Asp Explorer]

So are you suggesting that some unschooled burger flipper should have the same earning potential as a surgeon?

Happy 2015 to you

 

[Rearden]

Not at all, but the fact is that smuggling can be done for 100% profit by visiting Uss's and picking up the cargo left by destroyed ships .. 100% profit, no lay out .. no investment .. just the risk of being scanned (which is pretty easy to avoid if you remember you are carrying stolen goods) .. it can be done from day ONE of your game .. why should it make more credits that someone who has worked up to a great trading/hunting/pirating ship?

Sorry, that is salvaging to me not smuggling. The reason people think that is smuggling is because proper smuggling is so useless (you know... unbalanced) that very few people do it. But as someone with over 6 mil credit profit in the black market and very few of it with stolen items I can tell you that gimping yourself on purpose for the fun of "just enjoying the ride" gets old fast.

But I am just talking about smuggling because it is someone I really wanted to do, I don't imagine those explorers and miners are very happy either with a suggestion of "suck it up and enjoy the ride".

 

[Dabba]

Oh lord no smuggling needs massive fixes, and Ive made several posts on the matter. Smuggling should probably be the most profitable profession available, at least on a per ton basis. But that is just essentially trading with added risk.

 

[Soulstain]

I am so bored of hearing that some play styles are more profitable than others and that they need to be balanced ... They don't.

there are many viable ways in the game to make money, but how can you "Balance" that against someone who has worked their way up to a Type 9 ?

Of course someone with a massive trading ship is going to make more credits than a bounty hunter/pirate or a miner ..

I know that FD said that they didn't want to make one play style more profitable than another, but what does that mean ? .. are we going to be seeing 1.000.000 credit bounty's on NPC's ?, Are we going to see Platinum asteroids with 99% chunks flying off of them?

No because that will seriously unbalance the game .. the balance is already there ..

Sorry you can't make as much cash as a trader in a massive ship (and BTW I don't) ..

you can't go making every play style equal, For a lot of people combat is the most enjoyable part of the game .. so why not reward the "less interesting" parts of the game more.

I think the balance is just fine as it is, If FD balanced (for example) bounty hunting Vs a huge trading ship, a skilled player starting out in a stock sidewinder could be making as much money as someone who has built up their way to a massive trading ship .. no balance there ..

the balance is good, there is no rush to the top, just sit back and enjoy the ride ....

and ... Happy new year

So if I put days of effort into bounty hunting I shouldn't be able to profit the same as someone who puts days worth of work into hauling? How do you figure that? If we put the same time and effort in, we should get somewhat equal rewards. In the real world the truckers wouldn't be the rich guys unless they own the trucking company. The bounty hunter, bandit, smuggler are the risk takers. Yes there is risk in hauling large loads in open play to a certain degree but most of the players are getting around that risk as has been whined about ad nauseum on here.

The game is severely tilted towards space trucking and needs balancing.

 

[WalterHWhite]

Indeed, the beta players already put their input into balance and I suspect us newer players need to give it a bit more time and make sure we're focusing on the entire game rather than giving preferential treatment to a myopic view.

Personally, I'll be doing all tasks when I can afford all the ships to do it. I just about have enough cash to have both a running military Cobra and a trading Type 6. I'd probably upgrade the Type 6 for more trading and then look for an Asp.

 

[DieScream]

Maybe cargo should be worth 25-50%(?) more if it is pirated from a trucker than it otherwise would be.

Maybe pay a bonus to the pirate which is a percentage of their victim's ship's worth, this would not be taken from the victim's funds, but explained as the pirate recouping some salvage from the wreck.

Likewise, traders should receive incentive to trade in Open play, such as increased profits possibly. The balance doesn't necessarily need to be exact in credits/time played between trading and piracy, but both pilot's should be encouraged to interact and support/require each other, which of course also attracts the bounty hunters looking for pirates/escorting traders.

Pirating is one of the legs of the stool, along with trading and bounty hunting, ideally they would all be equally viable, but trading is concentrated on profit alone, while the other professions require hunting around, etc. Traders will likely always profit more.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Hey, what a coincidence, you don't want the income to be balanced around the most profitable role that you are conveniently doing.

When people say they want things balanced they don't mean on a cr/hour basis, they mean that it's actually worth doing. As it stands now, once you get past a viper or cobra all the other professions don't receive an increase in profits compared to the previous ship. Unlike trading which always increases in profits when you upgrade your ship.

 

[Herik]

So are you suggesting that some unschooled burger flipper should have the same earning potential as a surgeon?

Happy 2015 to you

Well of course; if that surgeon is playing Elite: D

 

[Allant Doran]

I don't mind some professions paying more, player skill and know-how dependent. What I hate is that the AMOUNT you earn is too skewed. With trading, you can easily make about 1 million an hour if you know the right trade routes. And that's all you have to do, know the trade routes.

No form of combat will earn you that much, as you constantly have to back and forth for ammo/repairs, nor can you guarantee you'll get enough assassination missions to make up the difference, nevermind fighting the randomness of USS spawns. This is also far more risky. Just one mistake and you're paying out insurance. Sure, Traders have to deal with potential piracy, but it's SO rare.

I've also been able to fill up my cargo with rare goods. 60 tons of rare goods costs me about 15k credits and makes me 400k - 500k credits. This means even if I'm pirated, and assuming i'm killed too, I'm only losing out on 15k and insurance. I'm actually not losing out on 400k, because that money never existed until I sold my goods.

This means the risk for the high-paying trade commodities is absolutely miniscule, meaning piracy isn't even a worthy threat.

And as for mining and Exploring? It's one thing to not be earning as much as other players, but do you actually realise just HOW much less those two professions earn? I don't expect to afford an Anaconda within a week just by exploring but I do expect to feel like my wealth is actually increasing by some noticeable margin.

 

[Trickle]

No !

....
Yes.

 

[Suxamethonium]

Hey, what a coincidence, you don't want the income to be balanced around the most profitable role that you are conveniently doing.

When people say they want things balanced they don't mean on a cr/hour basis, they mean that it's actually worth doing. As it stands now, once you get past a viper or cobra all the other professions don't receive an increase in profits compared to the previous ship. Unlike trading which always increases in profits when you upgrade your ship.

Actually it is worse. As your ship gets more expensive your outlay goes up while rewards stay the same, particularly if you would rather interdict (and thus take hull damage unless they yield) than lurk around nav beacons.

I have no problem with high-end trading being profitable, but equally I want other professions (bounty hunting, piracy, smuggling, exploration etc.) to have a risk/reward mechanic. Think about it this way;

- Smuggling: Could be a profession limited to small, fast, ships with decent cargo capacity that can sneak into stations or use the smaller landing pads on outposts. Make profit margins very high (like smuggled goods tend to be) to account for the risk of getting caught and the need to use smaller ships. It could be a leg-up for traders to get into a decent trading ship, or to getting a decent combat ship, or to buying that Asp you want to head to the galactic core in.

- Bounty hunting: If someone has the skill to take on a big bounty while flying a stock Sidewinder than they should be rewarded. Most people will need to use bigger/better ships to take on the big bounties so they will still need to work to get up there. I personally don't have a problem with a 1 million credit bounty on a big ship that might take a long time to bring down and take considerable skill and/or a decent ship yourself.

- Exploration: If you head out into the great unknown when you return with your data you should be well rewarded, just the same as if you spent that time grinding trading routes.

Some people enjoy playing space truck simulator, and for them great, trading should remain rewarding. The rest of us should have mechanisms to make money that don't involve grinding trading runs to support a combat habit or our dreams of exploration. It is not like people are contributing to being prey for player pirates (as they can just do their trading in solo mode) while they truck goods around.

 

[Zvanya]

So you're saying that it is perfectly fine for example for a profession that is exactly like trading (aka smuggling) but has more risk (fines and reputation) should pay less?

I'm not a smuggler but don't you generally not pay for the goods you smuggle?

All professions should not be equally lucrative, IMO. But that doesn't mean a little adjustment here and there is not in order.

 

[Sandmann]

Balancing a starter player doesn't mean that he makes as much as a T9, it means making the game as playable for the starter as the T9 pilot, so the T9 doesn't get all the goodies and leave nothing for the little guys to do.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

- Smuggling: Could be a profession limited to small, fast, ships with decent cargo capacity that can sneak into stations or use the smaller landing pads on outposts. Make profit margins very high (like smuggled goods tend to be) to account for the risk of getting caught and the need to use smaller ships. It could be a leg-up for traders to get into a decent trading ship, or to getting a decent combat ship, or to buying that Asp you want to head to the galactic core in.

- Bounty hunting: If someone has the skill to take on a big bounty while flying a stock Sidewinder than they should be rewarded. Most people will need to use bigger/better ships to take on the big bounties so they will still need to work to get up there. I personally don't have a problem with a 1 million credit bounty on a big ship that might take a long time to bring down and take considerable skill and/or a decent ship yourself.

- Exploration: If you head out into the great unknown when you return with your data you should be well rewarded, just the same as if you spent that time grinding trading routes.

Some people enjoy playing space truck simulator, and for them great, trading should remain rewarding. The rest of us should have mechanisms to make money that don't involve grinding trading runs to support a combat habit or our dreams of exploration. It is not like people are contributing to being prey for player pirates (as they can just do their trading in solo mode) while they truck goods around.

You're right i forgot about the interdiction costs. my asp costs ~2k to repair 1% dmg. a single interdiction can damage your ship anywhere between 0-10% so that cuts out up 20k from my profits of a single interdiction.

I'm not a smuggler but don't you generally not pay for the goods you smuggle?

All professions should not be equally lucrative, IMO. But that doesn't mean a little adjustment here and there is not in order.

No, youre thinking of scavager, a smuggler buys goods that are legal in one system and smuggles them into one that they are illegal.

 

[ste]

Its not about balance. People dont want balance, What they want is what ever there playstyle to have more much more reward and much less risk.