Dear Mr Braben....

[Hermann]

It seems to me that the addition of a " hard mode " ( Ironman anyone ), would be the best way to address this.


Then everyone is happy.

That's a good idea a separate server for the "It's too easy" special people with inflated ego's being part of an exclusive club of the ELITE HARDCORE you only get one life if you die no insurance game over.

 

[Jim LeCreepé]

That's a good idea a separate server for the "It's too easy" special people with inflated ego's being part of an exclusive club of the ELITE HARDCORE you only get one life if you die no insurance game over.

That was a planned feature actually. Ironman Mode was announced but got canned (for now).

 

[Solarwind]

WOW not much i can add

you seem to have listed every problem i have with the game , post is well written and thought out.

I REALLY hope the devs and Mr. Braben listen to the what was said here , most of the changes have come since the (whiners ) have got in and started on about how hard the game was. that is the way the game was supposed to be , i mean i don't even run shields on my trader anymore because there is NO danger , none whatsoever , in alpha or beta i would never have done that , it would have been suicide

something else you mention is the backers , the people who made this game possible at all , and we are the ones that they are turning away from the game , i mean i would rather play the beta we had with all the bugs than the current game we have, and that is sad,


CMDR Solarwind , alpha backer

 

[NeilF]

a planned feature ........ was announced but got canned.

...more to follow...

 

[tomPhoenix]

I have never seen this game as challenging. I'm very confused by this. It's simply some mild entertainment. Hopefully more entertaining as they build out the features we keep reading about... But it's just mindless entertainment like angry birds or something. There is very little risk. Very little challenge.

I don't disagree trying to solo an Anaconda is "hard" or that exploration far out is "hard." So it's not without challenge of course. I also understand there is a time investment to earning millions of credits for the bigger ships. Don't confuse this with a "challenge" though. It is a "commitment" which is different. BUT I don't see any of the tweaks that they have made as being something that made the game any easier.

There are far more brutal games out there for you to try if this is how you feel. Have you tried EVE Online? Maybe Elite isn't the game for you?

 

[vonvonbraun]

Someone olease tldr the whine post of the year for me as i cba

 

[Jim LeCreepé]

...more to follow...

If you quote me, include my whole sentence. I said for now. Your quote gives another impression.

 

[Kubicide]

Devs (So primarily Mike, Sandro and Mr Braben himself) before you make any further changes please really think about what you are doing to MY Elite.
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Here is a list of things that have been changed or introduced since Beta, for me, that make the game worse and provide less challenge and fun.

Well, everyone has a unique opinion and they should respect yours but you also need to respect others too. This post does come across as somewhat self-serving like many other forum posts but I know that's not what is intended. You make some fair points but also suggest some that would not please many players.

I'd say one key failure here is in not having some sort of "level of difficulty" setting - something that is always found in single player games. Without this it is very difficult for the devs to balance things that makes everyone's game experience enjoyable. Elite was previously just a solo game and this new version seems to be primarily played as solo experiences. But since the solo experience is shared by all players any changes made that would probably make you happier are likely to be offset by making others unhappy. No easy answers here for balancing solo other than to leave it to the players to change their own game experience in-game.

Are you still in a Sidewinder with loaned pulse lasers? Probably not. Suspect you're probably in an Asp or Cobra with A-level gear and shield cells, etc. The game does reward you with greater ease as you progress and upgrade ships. So perhaps try flying around in an Eagle or Sidewinder with the bare essentials. This will likely dramatically change your game experience and give you far greater challenges.

Regarding the multiplayer aspect this is a real tough one since the game concept of having 400 billion star systems to explore doesn't promote pvp too well does it? What would help here is greater content to pull pvp players together with the missing social bits (comms, wings, etc.). The content needs to be something more than reading the cryptic Galnet news posts and jumping into static / repeating USS scenarios which don't provide any sense of progression or accomplishment to the players (as with the recent slave rebellion - all that fighting yet status kept showing even 28% influences then suddenly it's over). Content is what everyone keeps asking for and will likely help improve many people's game experiences and hopefully yours as well!

 

[CMDR Gerakis]

I have to agree with Draig.

I see too many new comers complaining and the more noisy they get the more frightening it seems... for what? They should "earn" their ranks... every bits of it.
Since early beta we've seen the changes... the new comers here and most welcome but if they could measure where it all comes from...

anyway... enough words in this thread already it seems.

 

[Carnagus]

Random equipment failure my ***.
Imagine this: you bring your car to the repair shop, a few days later the guys there say everything is fine, you pay up bring you car out and the engine blows up. So either someone did not do their job or some c4 was strapped under your hood for fun.
I would not like to have my powerplant blow up in my face just because some RNG thought it is a good idea, and you wanna play "Elite: I like to die randomly and for no reason"
But then there are times when the repair men phone you and say: Hey there's this and this component we need to replace or your engine might not survive the next 1000 km.
If you don't and the engine blows up in your face it is your fault.
So instead random equipment failure the yard dogs could approach you after repairs (I don't know once every 20 reapirs or so) and say: Hey boss we need to replace the crystals in your laser or it might blow up when you try to shoot it. It will cost 10k extra.
If you don't pay up you run the risk of your laser blowing up next time you are in a fight
Or we need to replace the loading mechanism of your multicannon or it will jam
I get it that some player (a lot of players maybe) want to make the game harder, or run more risks. But if I service my ship regularly then I don't want random equipment to shut down for no reason.

 

[ALLCAPS]

I disagree with the OP. For me the game has gotten more and more fun as changes have been introduced, and I play to play for a long time. There are some very serious rose tinted glasses being worn and some hardcore armchair game design happening. Reverting the changes you've mentioned wouldn't make the game harder, it would make it more of a pain. Elite is not about being as obtuse and unwelcoming as possible.

 

[SentineI]

Random equipment failure my ***.

Careful, asterisking swear words is against forum rules & I've been bitten by it myself (even if it is a really stupid rule).

Imagine this: you bring your car to the repair shop, a few days later the guys there say everything is fine, you pay up bring you car out and the engine blows up. So either someone did not do their job or some c4 was strapped under your hood for fun.

A car which has done 100,000 miles is much more prone to things failing & wearing-out than one that's done 10,000 . A spaceship is a million times more complex than a car, so it's not unreasonable more things might go wrong at a quicker rate. Quick 'superficial' repairs you do at every spacestation visit can hardly be expected to dig deep into your ship & find everything that might fail.

I would not like to have my powerplant blow up in my face just because some RNG thought it is a good idea, and you wanna play "Elite: I like to die randomly and for no reason"

Errr, no-one was suggesting that. Or at least I wasn't. I suggested non-fatal things like your scanner not working, or your power planet dropping to 75% capacity. Stuff which would give you difficulties out in deep space, but most likely not kill you if you deal with it the right way.

WARNING: Your fluffy dice have failed.

But then there are times when the repair men phone you and say: Hey there's this and this component we need to replace or your engine might not survive the next 1000 km.
If you don't and the engine blows up in your face it is your fault.
So instead random equipment failure the yard dogs could approach you after repairs (I don't know once every 20 reapirs or so) and say: Hey boss we need to replace the crystals in your laser or it might blow up when you try to shoot it. It will cost 10k extra.
If you don't pay up you run the risk of your laser blowing up next time you are in a fight
Or we need to replace the loading mechanism of your multicannon or it will jam

While this sounds like unnecessary extra UI complexity, which Frontier might shy away from, I do personally love the sound of this... But I feel it would complement my suggestion of non-fatal random equipment failure, rather than replace it.

 

[Carnagus]

I would imagine that if I go to a station they don't just do a "superficial duct tape it together" type repair but exchange parts that have failed or will likely fail in the near future, and generally we build things to last, not to break down in 2 weeks of use especially if you take care of said thing (for how many years did we use the space shuttles?). I know space is harsh with all that radiaton and particles and all, but generally only your weapons, hardpoints, thrusters and hull have direct contact with the outside world. other components are inside so they are somewhat protected from all that.

Yes YOU recommended not fatal system brekdowns, but some guy before you said that it would be great to break down in the middle of nothing have to use escape pod to go to nearest station (EVE much?) and than pay to haul the ship back to dock, which might have been stolen/destroyed by pirates unless you bought anti pirate stuff.
In my opinion that would be really... bad. like we could rename the game "Elite:Inconvinient and and absurdly annoying"

I would not have a problem with minor inconviniences that spring from your not taking care of your stuff. But stuff breaking down because why not is bad idea imho.

 

[oedipus]

Disagree with most of the OP's points, though well-stated. It is DB's game rather than the OP's (who is quite welcome to create his/her own) and commentary such as this is welcome and may well be incorporated but as we are are here in part to voice opinions I wanted to say that this should be disregarded.

 

[MadMarchHare]

I have to agree with Draig.

I see too many new comers complaining and the more noisy they get the more frightening it seems... for what? They should "earn" their ranks... every bits of it.
Since early beta we've seen the changes... the new comers here and most welcome but if they could measure where it all comes from...

anyway... enough words in this thread already it seems.

Happens in every online game you might care to mention, a vocal minority spend more time ranting on the forums to give them their instant gratification fix instead of trying to simply get better at a game. A sad indictment of modern times, many people just don't want to put the effort in, or they want to play in safe mode where nothing bad ever happens to them.

 

[Comrade Napoleon]

Well well well
First of all credits to OP for makin a awell based sound argument for his opinions. + Rep for that
I can not agree in everything you say , but in my opinion some are dead on.
I will just choose among your points
The game is too easy: check
The NPC's are hillarious: check
Multiplayer Missing: Check
Docking: come on, this should not be a hurdle, Fighting a 'Conda in a Viper should be a hurdle, its ridiculous as it is now. makes no sense.
Comms is a joke : ckeck
Solo an All mode: let people do what the want, FGS it does not hurt you and they bought the the game too, dont focus on it.
Anarchy's : you are right , have not seen one , comeon FD flying no shields in Anarchy is a joke, they should be dangerous places, with good rewards for everyone, traders and pirates alike

Cheers Cmdr's

 

[intel]

I'll make no apologies for a long post. Stop reading right now if you don't like them. I don't do TL;DR.

So, generally I love the game. I've been in since the Kickstarter, tested since Premium Beta, and yes I'm an '84 Elite original.
Mostly I've been positive throughout the various Beta stages and Gamma and into release.
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Recently that changed for me, with a seemingly small change by FD, which was changing the final shot kill rule. That isn't the point of this post however. The point is for me to explain why that small change was the tipping point for me personally, why I'm so concerned about the change in attitude very recently by the Devs and the direction they seem to be going in.
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So I'll start by saying straight out that I'm really concerned that the Devs have seemingly changed attitudes recently, and are making the game too easy, far too accommodating to new players who have been playing less than a week and whine like crazy, and taking out the challenges in the game.
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These challenges are what actually makes the game Elite, to me. Yes it's harsh. Yes it IS often unfair, but that is what MAKES it Elite. It's not a happy clappy universe where everyone is treated fairly or gets rewarded nicely and by damage dealt. It's where the highest, most respected ranking in the galaxy is based on killing people. Not 50% of them or even 99% of them. It's based on killing them. It has been for 30 years.
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It's a universe with cops who shoot to kill without much provocation, where stations will blow you to smithereens wihout you doing much wrong, where slavery is common and a whole sector of society encourages and supports it. Where there are pirates who rob and kill you, where pretty much anything goes, and you live life on the edge. You can buy narcotics and trade in them, rob, kill, assassinate, steal and smuggle, and earn a living doing it. You can be an upstanding member of the Galaxy, a peaceful trader or the lowest scum imaginable, and that is up to you to deal with the consequences. And I love it exactly because of all of that.
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This is where you come in to the universe with your crappy little ship and a handful of credits to make your own way anyhow you choose.
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That has always been the case for me for 30 years. That's a long time, and not to be underestimated. Even back in the day, in my young mind that is how it was. I mention it because It's a key factor in how Mr. Braben managed to get a lot of money out of people like me to get this game made at all. It's why there are several really great books out right now where all this goes on and more, and why I have a copy of them all, and have read them all. It is, simply put, the Elite world I grew up with, and the established lore I devoured and lived my space fantasies in.
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Some of the newer players to Elite really should try and appreciate that fact, and truly think about it, and take that on board before making calls for ANY change to that ethos. The Devs REALLY need to please consider that much more seriously before making any further change that will alter that background.
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Throughout development FD have always given the impression they will make the game their way, and while they do read and listen to the playerbase, they will go with what they feel is best in the end. Which up until recently has always really been within the spirit of the original Elite game. I didn't always agree with some changes, but supported them if it fell into that category. They always said that while you can switch between open and solo play the NPC's will be just as tough and act just like players so it doesn't matter what mode you play in. To all intents and purposes, it shouldn't matter to you if that ship over there is a player or an NPC, you and they, will react in much the same way so you don't really tell much of a difference. This is being eroded in my opinion. Little bit by little bit. That is why I'm writing this to you, Mr. Braben and you the Devs, and you the players. It is not very often I do a long post like this at all. We've all been encouraged to give feedback. We all have our own opinions, and whether you agree with me or not, this is my opinion, and therefore my feedback and concerns.
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This latest change has simply been the last in a fairly long list of things changed, in some cases quite literally in the last few weeks, that incrementally has started to change the game for the worse in my opinion and start to dumb it down too much. For me this latest change really makes it obvious (with other changes made) that I'm playing among NPC's and not other ships in the galaxy, really wrecks immersion for me and goes in the face of what I've been told throughout Beta, and what the Devs vision was when explaining why they can combine Online and Solo play and why it makes no difference which mode you are in.
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Don't mistake me saying all this for not welcoming new players or wanting them to have the help they need to get going. I really understand how hard it can be to get your head around Elite, how the tutorials are fairly poor at the moment and how there is no real manual. These things need to be addressed really quickly, but in the meantime at least you do have the forums to ask your questions (I try to answer newbies questions often) and there are some great You Tube vids up that go some way to explaining things to get you going. When I started in Beta there was, practically, nothing to help and we had to figure it out as we went along. So yes, I get it. That doesn't mean I think things need to change to make it easier, or that challenges should be removed just because people are new to Elite. Changes that can actually change the premise of the franchise. The feel of it being Elite itself.
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I get why people think I'm just moaning about this recent change. I'm not.
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Devs (So primarily Mike, Sandro and Mr Braben himself) before you make any further changes please really think about what you are doing to MY Elite.
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Here is a list of things that have been changed or introduced since Beta, for me, that make the game worse and provide less challenge and fun. Hopefully some will then understand why this latest change had me annoyed, because the culmination of them all is the issue, not any one of them on their own.
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• Solo play. Throughout most of Beta it was all effectively forced Open play. I preferred it looking back, to all this switching business.
• Reduced interdictions. Gone way too far.
• Availability of A grade components practically everywhere.
• NPC AI reduced from Beta. They got a whole lot dumber and easier.
• Reduced practical use of Silent running. It used to work well and have a purpose. No one does it any more.
• Reduced jump in range at stations from 20k to less than 10k. Totally safe zones effectively. We had fun around them in Beta.
• NPCs with no shields. I mean....what? C'mon...
• Shield Cells. No point in power management any more.
• USS with multiple attackers no longer exist unless you shoot cops. Where did they go?
• Insurance tweaks to increase the penalty of ship destruction were reversed.
• Cargo insurance (it's not in yet but it is on the panel so coming) Really? More cotton wool!
• Rare commodities - what a farce that was.
• Easier docking. Way too easy!
• Living after crashing into a station quite easily. Where's the danger gone from docking? That was a huge thing back in the day!
• Anarchy systems are the safest systems to fly in. No fines or bounties, kill what you want and steal what you want. No danger!
• Escaping anything is a case of boosting not a chance of failing to get away. Ever.
• Interdiction mini game too easy to avoid. May as well ask you "Do you want a fight? Y/N"
• Change to kill gets reward mechanic. Totally immersion breaking, NPC should have the same rules as players. No risk of losing a kill ever.

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So, I ask you, before making any more changes, and what seem like knee-jerk reactions too often, please think about what you are doing to the Elite I love and the long term effects of seemingly minor changes, because they do add up and can ruin a game so easily. Please don't lose people like me who will stick with you for years to come, just to appease a younger, seemingly at times ADHD inflicted audience who will be gone in 6 months time. We lost a lot of good people over the offline debacle already.
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It can and does happen through poor choices early on by devs, and all those previous games are dead in the water when they lose the core fan base and the fundamental core idea and lore of the game we all set out on this journey together to see come to fruition. I will continue to support you. I will still be here in months to come. I'm just asking you to think a little bit longer and harder before making seemingly small decisions to the game we all love, apparently to appease new players and make things easier all the time.
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Regards,
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Draig

+1
Right on OP. Current Statement or Value of the game is nothing more then few weeks or maybe months. Right now it feel like just another Console Arcade Shooter with nifty graphics. Where is the thrill we had when we were playing Original ELITE ?