Casual Vs Hardcore

Cathy

Cathy
I think players' hardcore/casual nature exists on a spectrum, so it's not that helpful to aim at one end or the other.

WoW lost me when it became narratively feeble. The accessibility of the content was neither here nor there. It was the quality of the content (both "easy" and "hard") that mattered.

(the ongoing subscription in a world of good games becoming free to play didn't help)

edit: the ideal game would be like the English language: rich, varied, a day to pick up, a lifetime to master (and only if you're exceptional :))
 
Last edited:

DarkWalker

D
Casual and hardcore are very vague concepts.

For example, how do you qualify someone that logs 5 hours per day, but mostly to chat? Or someone that plays the same amount but only levels alts, never engaging in the end game? Or someone that mostly does minigames, such as WoW's pet battles?

On the other hand, how do you classify someone that is doing hard mode raid progression, but only logs for the raids themselves, just a few hours per week? Or someone that spends comparatively little time in game, but does enough research and min/maxing to know how to defeat the hardest challenges in the game? Or someone that actually plays a lot and attempts to progress but, due to some handicap, can't actually work well in the end game?

As for what I want of the game: a huge galaxy that I can explore; a galaxy dangerous enough (on the PvE side) that I have to pay attention but also with places where I can relax and enjoy the ride; a galaxy with plentiful opportunities for playing with others but little, preferably no, forced grouping.

Also, while I don't really need the "easy to learn" part, I would prefer the game to be easy to learn in order to better attract new players. I want Elite Dangerous to be around for a long time, and this is only possible with a healthy influx of new players.
 

Nagual

Nagual
Liqua said:
Rather than "endgame" then how about "long term goals" ?
Click to expand...


Indeedy, more appropriate for Elite methinks. I know I can be a tad pedantic with things, but with 'endgame' it creates a certain mental image of finality. LTGs at least don't form a pre-emptive terminal block.. :D
 

Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
Everything is in the name of the game "ELITE". And more "Dangerous". The game will be a mixture of ease, accessibility to basic operations and fun to play for casual gamers and difficulties, technical for most assiduous players. Logically, as in real life, the more we want to to go high, and the longer it will excel in our actions. It is not possible to denature the title of this game "Elite Dangerous". So from a certain level, the things "serious", start, I think
 
Last edited:

Ende

Ende
Calebe said:
The only end game would be to visit every star system which is impossible, so there is no end game, as we will never know what was missed, it is impossible. Is there an alien race or a derelict no one found? We will never know. So how can their be an end game?
Click to expand...

In gaming the term endgame does not mean to complete/finish a game.

It basically means the content that u do when ur at max level. Its repeatable content to keep the top players busy.

Im simply using the term Endgame in the correct gaming industry meaning.

In Wow for example Endgame content is ALL of the contnent available when ur level 90. It is not exclusively the heroic raid content...

(damn i hate using Wow every time to explain a point lol)
 

Calebe

C
Ende I played Everquest (EQ) for 15 years, so I know the end game for us was the final boss for that expansion. You could visit all the older zones and easily wipe them out but no experience gain on most of it. Most stayed in the new zones, did the quests and maxed their level (100 at the time) and try to max their AA (alternate ability points). I was max in all, and the max 50 AA"s banked and there was months to go before new content. It got boring, nothing new to see.

Elite Dangerous won't have that. You won't be able to see all of the content or know what is the end game content. You will have end game goals for sure, but like wow at max level all the content will be available at the beginning of ED but unlike WoW you will never see it all, nor will anyone else.

So I think the thinking needs to change for 'End Game' for Elite. It can't be seeing all the systems, it can't be discover all the wonders, as it is so massive.

So the end game will be Elite Status, and whatever goals each person sets, as there won't be one size fits all. IN EQ end game was your guild killed the boss mob, your max level and max aa points and 50 (the max) banked. You will effectively done every new zone visited and beat. Not possible in Elite, you can't beat it. Wow and EQ you can beat at least till the new expansion, done and see it all. That won't apply, so it is up to each of us to choose one. For me no end game as I plan to explore for a long long time. As long as something new keeps coming up unexpectedly I will stay interested and know there is still more to discover.

Calebe
 

Aewarin Jameson

Aewarin Jameson
Ende said:
It basically means the content that u do when ur at max level. Its repeatable content to keep the top players busy.

Im simply using the term Endgame in the correct gaming industry meaning
Click to expand...

What would the "endgame" state be within ED for the 4 roles that are on offer - explorer; pirate; bounty hunter; trader.

To me the trader is obvious : you have amassed enormous wealth, so much that you have problems spending it within the game. (Let's say the most expensive thing you could do costs X and you have 10,000x that amount)

The explorer role would never reach an endgame state - there are more systems than there are minutes left in your life.

BH/Pirate are related to each other and are about combat, so let's say the end state is to reach Elite.

Combining them and thinking of goals people might have:

- You have more money than sense
- You have attained at least 1 Elite rating
- You own all the ship types
- You are "loved" by one of the factions
- You have explored a significant part of the galaxy

I imagine the above will take some time, hopefully just long enough for FD to release some new add-on packs (like Planetary Landing) that offers some new variety on the already existing objectives, but they should also use this opportunity to inject some new long term goals for the 1%.

- Terraforming: You can fund one of the factions that helps with their terraforming projects. Speeds up expansions
- Investing into R&D: If planets have a tech level (based upon Elite Classic) then by pumping in money to give to their government you can raise the TL over time.

These are a couple of examples of some long term goals to help soak up pilots wealth. I am sure there are more.

What about long term goals for the other roles ?
 

[VR] Shadowman

[VR] Shadowman
Liqua said:
The explorer role would never reach an endgame state - there are more systems than there are minutes left in your life.
Click to expand...

That's mind boggling and slightly depressing!

In the casual vs hardcore debate, I'm probably going to be the latter. At least for a while. I've got casual & hardcore experience in "that" game too. :rolleyes:

Long term goals are good, but I'm wondering if they would inject massive events into the game as well? With enough time, they could introduce all-out war between the factions, changing the landscape of the core systems/markets/politics and creating some epic battles for players to take part in. Or they could borrow from the concept of B5: Thirdspace and create some hell. :)
 

Nagual

Nagual
Shadowman said:
Long term goals are good, but I'm wondering if they would inject massive events into the game as well? With enough time, they could introduce all-out war between the factions, changing the landscape of the core systems/markets/politics and creating some epic battles for players to take part in.
Click to expand...


I am hoping this is what they have been hinting at. I would imagine they can essentially add or change anything they like, imagination is their only limit.
 

Thargon

Thargon
I think that unless the game is expanded along the way, it will die off as the fanbase fades. I do hope that additional content, patches and support will be there after release, and it won't die a slow and painful death.

This is why I like other space MMOs - EVE and the promise of the upcoming SC (Chris Roberts) which is planned to have dynamically added content at a fast pace from the developers once it has launched. I think they can keep this going, seeing as the mental pace so far. Also Eve Online ain't no sloggard - it's beeing kicking along for 10 years now :)
 

MentaListo

MentaListo
I don't like the whole 'levelling up' thing you have in WoW. You basically have to travel to each area and just kill harder beasts. After killing a few to many pig things I got seriously bored after a month and quit.

I was part of the beta and played a lot in the first few months. Not playing games anywhere near as much as I used to - so I'd consider myself to be casual gamer, even though I used to be fairly hardcore in my early 20s.

I just hope you don't have to grind package missions like you could do in Elite 2 to get promotions :)
 

Thargon

Thargon
MentaListo said:
I don't like the whole 'levelling up' thing you have in WoW. You basically have to travel to each area and just kill harder beasts. After killing a few to many pig things I got seriously bored after a month and quit.

I was part of the beta and played a lot in the first few months. Not playing games anywhere near as much as I used to - so I'd consider myself to be casual gamer, even though I used to be fairly hardcore in my early 20s.

I just hope you don't have to grind package missions like you could do in Elite 2 to get promotions :)
Click to expand...

Menta, I think there is going to be an element of this regardless. How else can you increase your rank? In all versions of elite, you have to progress from Mostly Harmless to Elite. Hell, even your forum rank starts like this. I don't think Dave B is going to ditch 30 years of Elite legacy to change this format. I think this grind is going to exist regardless.

The only thing is, can the grind be made interesting? I know grind exists in all types of games. However, if there are sufficiently enough missions, with sufficient procedurally generated randomness that it appears to be new and fresh each time, maybe, just maybe, the grind can be reduced. I hate repetative natures of all MMOs like this. There has to be some solution.
 

Karl

K
Guess I'm somewhere in the middle. Hardcore wrt game complexity and time required to spend to get to the top (but without necessarily feeling like grinding), and above casual wrt survivability. I don't bother with DiD games for "eternal games", and I like to reload when I do fatal mistakes, the game is trolling (XCOM is notorious on this one), or game breaking bugs prevents further progress.
 

Myotis

Myotis
I didn't read through the whole thread yet, but wanted to add my feelings for the gameplay style:

What I want is a game that you can play, get ahead in, and actually accomplish something when you only have a couple of hours to play every week. Like probably many others on these forums I have a lot of other things in my life and I simply don't have the time to play for hours every day. Still I would like to be part of the universe and enjoy the game with even so few hours. No, I do not expect to be the top player (not even close) with so little time, but I also don't want to feel like I cannot contribute to the game at all.
 

Calebe

C
I hope the game allows the 40 hour a week player and the 4 hour a week player to feel that the game caters to their play style. So how do you accomplish that?

The way I envision it, is that the game is not a race to Elite status, it is not acquiring credits, it is with such a vast universe to explore that the 4 hour a week player could be the one to discover something new that others miss. True they may just prefer to make trade runs in known space, but even that can be rewarding with varied missions and goals that we each set for ourselves. So as long as we don't look at it as a race to the top, and getting the best ship possible and blowing the 4 hour a week player out of the skies, but instead help each other, and the occasional pirate we run into is just that occasional, and not a gloating griefer that ruins fun, it should be enjoyable for all. The thing I want to see most is a story line that hints of unknown wonders to be found, that anyone could be the first to discover them. If that happens any and everyone will feel a part of the universe, even if you don't discover them you may want to visit the discovery, and as they say one picture is worth a thousand words, lets hope the visual of the discovery is worth a lot more.

Calebe
 

TheDarkKnight

TheDarkKnight
If you define Hardcore as a player who just likes PvP and wants to do what they want when they want to who they want, then I would prefer a Casual type game.

If you define Hardcore as a player who puts a lot of effort in to game to be the best they can without impacting the fun of others, that I do not mind.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom