One to one. A player trader will beat an npc trader every time. However, the odds of coming across that player hauler are very low indeed. More profitable to keep going after NPCs. I have had an NPC haul gold before, got him to drop 15 tons. Rare, but it happens. Just more profitable to do NPC hunting than player pirate hunting, but certainly not more fun.
Yep, I went solo for trading rare goods
- Thread starter Zpike
- Start date
One to one. A player trader will beat an npc trader every time. However, the odds of coming across that player hauler are very low indeed. More profitable to keep going after NPCs. I have had an NPC haul gold before, got him to drop 15 tons. Rare, but it happens. Just more profitable to do NPC hunting than player pirate hunting, but certainly not more fun.
What makes me wonder is why people only bring up the point of Solo mode being a cheat when they usually want to force PvP on players.
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Two big news alerts today:
1) you can get interdicted by NPC's in solo mode as well. It's not a cheat at all, it just avoids those nasty souls putting everything into hurting CMDRs.
2) you can interdict NPC's as a pirate and they also carry nice goodies. So maybe you should start thinking what it is you're really after.
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Sidenote: Going after transports (some even without shields) is not even a PvP challenge. So please don't mention the "but human players are more of a challenge" thing. If you want a challenge get a friend to duel you in a fighter craft.
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Two big news alerts today:
1) you can get interdicted by NPC's in solo mode as well. It's not a cheat at all, it just avoids those nasty souls putting everything into hurting CMDRs.
2) you can interdict NPC's as a pirate and they also carry nice goodies. So maybe you should start thinking what it is you're really after.
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Sidenote: Going after transports (some even without shields) is not even a PvP challenge. So please don't mention the "but human players are more of a challenge" thing. If you want a challenge get a friend to duel you in a fighter craft.
I backed and bought a solo game here.
Not interested in an MMO - been there, done that. Keep on trucking in Solo, guys!
Not interested in an MMO - been there, done that. Keep on trucking in Solo, guys!
Sidenote: I want to extract as much cargo as possible from that transport. This is the challenge. No cargo drops on a kill. You may be right in thinking there's no/little risk though. The police are tame, like other NPCs, and you can scan your targets before interdicting. Sheild cells + chaff + fastest ship in the game make you pretty much invulvernable to PvP bounty hunters.
The other side of the solo vs open debate says the same thing again and again but they fail to mention the one thing from our side that destroys the whole "forced pvp" argument. Rips it to shreds even. Keep solo mode... just don't let gear/creds/ship cross over. Nothing is forced BUT if you want to play in the open universe, you do so with the same level of risk as the rest of us. If not, stay in solo mod and become the trader god you always wanted to be. There is no forced PVP in this scenario.
1. You can get interdicted by NPCs. You can also run face first into a landing pad or fly straight unto a son and overheat. These are possibilities. But are they serious dangers to a pilot? No, they are not. Not even close.
2. I'm after dynamic interactions between players. Not the same interaction with an NPC time and time again. Zero fun. If every hauler simply cut engines and handed over everything, that wouldn't be much fun either. It's the thrill of the encounter... what is this HUMAN going to do!
Sidenote: I don't target haulers without shields. I target players and if you happen not to have shields, well, that was a poor choice and you're going to regret it. Not my fault you traded fast cash for less security. The "challenge" is getting goods from the target. If you don't get goods, it's been a failed attempt at piracy. Piracy is NOT about combat skills -- we aren't seeking a challenge in that regard.
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Fair enough, not problem with that at all and no one wants to force you to play open if you don't want to. Simply have 2 different saves which then eliminates the abuse that the pvp crowd talks about. At that point, PVPers can shut up as there is nothing to complain about. They have to actually admit that they want to force people to play the way they want to. With 2 different saves, this problem goes away and the true "pvp griefers" are known and can be ignored.
Those who wish to play in open will, those who do not -- won't. Simple, easy, no abuse.
You can explain the concept to anybody and they will see the problem immediately. My brother for instance doesn't play this game but plays different mmos and I explained the situation of solo vs open. He said "that's not a bad idea" and I agreed -- it isn't, as anyone can play alone or in the open world and they aren't forced into something they don't want to do. FAIR ENOUGH. I then told him the cross over and the first thing he said was "that sounds like cheating to me".
I told the same thing to my 57 year old dad (loves sitting in the cockpit with the OR on his head). He immediately said "Isn't that unfair?"
Clearly, these 2 people aren't the end all opinions of the gaming world.... but the scenario is an obvious one and anyone can see it.
It's not stopping me from enjoying the game and it won't if it never changes (which is likely), however it is a glaring problem for the "competitive" open world of ED.
Just my opinion of the situation coming from, what I deem is, a logical point of view.
So my initial post was correct to begin with, why disagree then, especially with so much vitriol in it?
I didn't see my post as being all that "angry", not in a rage related way, but I suppose it can be read that way. More sarcastic anger "so wrong makes my brain hurt" "just no, no no no no! a million times no!". I might also have answered an angrier post during that one and it could have translated over, meant no anger directed at you. Apologies for the confusion.
And no, it was not correct, not really. One to one... a player hauler will be worth more, absolutely. However, the odds of coming across that player are lower than finding a flee on a 500 foot tall elephants bum. Far more profitable to take down the NPC traders who carry less valuable items but are far more plentiful. Also, a player is not likely to just hand it over -- far from it. Most are offended by the idea and would rather go boom than give over one ton of cargo.
In all my time pirating -- roughly 10 days, 6 to 8 hours per day -- I have come across just 7 player haulers. 7 total. I interdicted 4 of them. They carried decent stuff, but they didn't just surrender. One I got nothing, he blew up because he was trying to run and I didn't control myself well enough... one laser too many. Another did give up cargo, but he only had 10 tons (3k profit per ton for me). The other escaped, but was heavily damaged. The last I successfully launched limpets only to get about 5 tons of silver.
In that same time span, while searching for players, I pulled over more than a hundred npcs and have profited a little over 400k from the odds and ends they dropped. Some were a bust, others not. However, the difference is immense.
NPC pirating is way more profitable and steady. Player pirating is not. The interaction is what makes player pirating fun, as no outcome is scripted. In fact, there might even be some banter and some negotiation. With an NPC... it's boom boom kapow, drop cargo, NEXT.
It's true I may come across the holy grail of haulers -- 100 tons of plat/parad/gold/rares -- but I can still only hold 30 tons of the stuff... and even then, I have to chase, bring down shields and launch limpets BEFORE he can jump away. And since his ship is bigger, there is no FSD delay and I only have seconds to do this successfully.
So, again I say, NPC pirating is far easier and more profitable. But player pirating is much more fun.
Vitriol free, I hope.
-Saunders Out
If you want to see humans you're either in the wrong place or have a connection issue. There are many locations where you see players jumping in in trading ships (gunless/shieldless cobras, haulers, adders, Type-6s (often without sheilds)) every minute or so.
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I see plenty of humans. Most are in sidewinders, vipers, eagles. Very few haulers. In the eravate system and the systems around there.
So you're somehow not seeing the connection between Solo Play and very few player traders in Open Play? Alright.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It's an assumed connection - the traders could simply be 100 LY away from major population centres effectively playing solo in open. Frontier have the statistics - and they're not telling.
Ah. Eravate. That's probably why. I'd suggest heading toward Sol if you want to find more player traders, especially rare commodities ports. Much better piracy to be had there.
I can't even defeat the sidewinder in the first combat tutorial (mouse and keyboard) so I would have no chance against a skilled human if they attacked me. I generally to stick to solo for long trade runs and exploring, I manage to avoid most npc interdictions and they never pursue when you do escape, my Cobra's guns have never been fired in anger yet!
There should have only been one mode - open. Period. I play in a private group and so when my friend comes online we can join each other. So I don't play solo, though it kinda is solo.
Still, I don't see value in solo/private modes. Not when the game requires an internet connection. The minute they decided no offline play is the minute they should've had one mode - open - only.
The game ends up being vastly different for folks who encounter other humans and have to worry about PvP. I like being able to opt out of PvP of course. EVE Online does this nicely - it makes it harder to PvP in civilized space. I'm not sure why Elite couldn't do the same... It's completely setup for it.
Ultima Online was also a brutal PvP game, probably the most brutal in history. They eventually ended up doing a mirrored world that had no PvP. That's not bad and is more like Elite's model.
Though I think with such a HUuuuuuuuugeee playable area - even populated space - having solo/private modes is kinda pointless. You can likely find a very quiet corner of the galaxy to go trade without ever running into another person. Of course any super hot/profitable area would likely draw PvPers and that makes sense. It fits well and doesn't prevent you from making credits unbothered...It increases the risk with the reward in a nice human crowdsourced way that would likely otherwise be difficult for the game AI to do.
I must admit I like private play just for knowing I'm alone because I'm not always paying attention, but I wouldn't be opposed if they dropped it. I also think it makes sense to drop it. They of course would need to tweak the game a bit and have bigger rewards. It would need to be less of a grind because people would actually start losing credits.
Still, I don't see value in solo/private modes. Not when the game requires an internet connection. The minute they decided no offline play is the minute they should've had one mode - open - only.
The game ends up being vastly different for folks who encounter other humans and have to worry about PvP. I like being able to opt out of PvP of course. EVE Online does this nicely - it makes it harder to PvP in civilized space. I'm not sure why Elite couldn't do the same... It's completely setup for it.
Ultima Online was also a brutal PvP game, probably the most brutal in history. They eventually ended up doing a mirrored world that had no PvP. That's not bad and is more like Elite's model.
Though I think with such a HUuuuuuuuugeee playable area - even populated space - having solo/private modes is kinda pointless. You can likely find a very quiet corner of the galaxy to go trade without ever running into another person. Of course any super hot/profitable area would likely draw PvPers and that makes sense. It fits well and doesn't prevent you from making credits unbothered...It increases the risk with the reward in a nice human crowdsourced way that would likely otherwise be difficult for the game AI to do.
I must admit I like private play just for knowing I'm alone because I'm not always paying attention, but I wouldn't be opposed if they dropped it. I also think it makes sense to drop it. They of course would need to tweak the game a bit and have bigger rewards. It would need to be less of a grind because people would actually start losing credits.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Given that players who wanted solo-offline had already lost that, do you think it would really have been a good idea to remove solo-online at that point?
What does that have to do with "humans are more fun to pirate than npcs, but not as profitable"?
I'm well aware of the open vs solo debate (this entire thread essentially) and what that may mean in regards to how many traders there are in open world vs solo.
In what way am I not seeing the connection? It's fairly obvious to everyone that plays, but I don't understand what you are trying to say.
Actually I adjust me original belief. I think it is ok and good to have solo and private group mode. HOWEVER, you should have a brand new character to play with for each. It would be wonderful to be in a completely different ship and system when I play solo and then yet another in a private group (perhaps each private group) and another with open play.
Yea, it would mean earning more credits ... But that's fine. It just lets you change the play style without leading to any sort of advantage. Sometimes you want a relaxed environment. Sometimes you want to be more social (and it'll feel more social as the game expands and adds multiplayer features).
Yea, it would mean earning more credits ... But that's fine. It just lets you change the play style without leading to any sort of advantage. Sometimes you want a relaxed environment. Sometimes you want to be more social (and it'll feel more social as the game expands and adds multiplayer features).
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
.... and now you propose that Frontier remove a game feature that has been part of the stated game design since the beginning of the Kickstarter.