Calling on the community to play in Open Play

[Dabba]

Lets all play a game called firing line.

Everyone that wants to be a shooter, line up to the right. Everyone that wants to be a target line up to the left.

Which line do you think is empty?

 

[CMDR Bansidhe]

The game puts the consent of players to anything happening to them first obviously. So, if you find a consenting party - go ahead and play with them. I love watching the plague of griefer community here

You just adore being wrong, don't you. Even after it has been shown via a link on this page that the developers don't consider us griefers you still persist in claiming you know better than they.

Cojones the size of melons, man.

 

[kurush]

Which line do you think is empty?

The funniest parth is that these people just don't get it Even the most hard-core PvP oriented MMOs have starter zones without any PVP enabled, here we don't have that but we have a) Solo b) private groups c) firewalls d) my signature e) ignore list

 

[CMDR Bansidhe]

Lets all play a game called firing line.

Everyone that wants to be a shooter, line up to the right. Everyone that wants to be a target line up to the left.

Which line do you think is empty?

Well you can guarantee that I'll be in the empty line. Aggressor or target - I don't care. That's the point that so many seem to miss. Only one of us will win and once battle is joined that could be either of us.

You know what else? I don't care which is which. I'd prefer it to be me but if it's not I still gain. Why? Because the experience will help to improve my performance. We learn more from our defeats, after all.

Win or lose I won't be harmed in real life.

Win or lose I won't lose more than I can afford to lose because, well I ain't so bad at video games that I'd put myself in that position.

 

[Sendraks]

He said Bigcheese was wrong, I merely invite him to support his assertion.

No assertions on my part. I've already posted reasons for my position. Bigcheese is the one making the assertion and also an ad-hominen. I suggest you read the thread rather than making assertions yourself.

I've also yet to see any argument that presents the advantages for playing in open. If people want more of the community to play in open, I suggest they do more to sell the experience.

 

[Eleuth]

I play with other players - in a private group. Just because you don't see someone in open, does not mean they are in solo.

But how do you play " with" other players. I never found any quest or whatever to do with several people.
I would really love an opportunity on the bulletinboard where they ask for two cmdrs to transport something.
Or ask an other commander to help transporting because I have insufficient cargospace.
Where do you find these? I can only fly together and do my own jobs. Then there is hardly any need to talk to another. Only say hi.
Does these jobs appear in the private group section?

 

[Beld]

The funniest parth is that these people just don't get it Even the most hard-core PvP oriented MMOs have starter zones without any PVP enabled, here we don't have that but we have a) Solo b) private groups c) firewalls d) my signature e) ignore list

Its quite surprising that the exploit you advertise in your signature is ignored by the powers that be, it goes a long way to show their bias on this subject.

 

[Commander Silex]

The game puts the consent of players to anything happening to them first obviously. So, if you find a consenting party - go ahead and play with them. I love watching the plague of griefer community here

Yes it does but you appear to have, perhaps deliberately (I can't be sure), interpreted the actual statement in a way mean something else. So just so we're clear I'll post it the important bit in full:

I know this is a very contentious issue, which I have been wrestling with since I first came on to the project. The way I see it at the moment is pretty straightforward:

• We have players that want a range of different experiences
• All of those experiences are valid
• Some of those experiences are mutually exclusive

So my answer is to say that we will support all of them but not to the point where one player is happy at the expense of another. And a clean way to do this is by using a grouping system.

The worst case scenario here is that a player who wants to avoid an encounter will vanish into a private group. In this case, the player will be forced to escape conventionally first (via hyperspace, docking or something similar).

There's your reference to consent right there. There is no expectation to be asked by a pirate first if PvP is 'ok', but if you don't want PvP at that precise moment, or indeed any moment, there are other options.

In this instance, the aggressor still gets some benefit - they "defeated" their prey, and we can hopefully build on this in terms of rewarding them in various ways: via reputation, which can lead to missions and events, via player bragging rights (perhaps only players that remain in the "all group" can feature in various global news feed articles) and potentially via limited physical rewards.

If players are going to live in private groups, well, that suggests that if we had a single environment they would be playing offline or not at all, so they aren't part of the equation.

 

[Beld]

At the end of the day play in whatever mode you like, but when you do get bored of the risk free single player half game, don't complain that you've missed the boat on developing the skills you need to survive in a cutthroat open universe, because the ones with courage will have learn't all those lessons and your cries will fall on their deaf ears.

 

[Dabba]

Well you can guarantee that I'll be in the empty line. Aggressor or target - I don't care. That's the point that so many seem to miss. Only one of us will win and once battle is joined that could be either of us.

You know what else? I don't care which is which. I'd prefer it to be me but if it's not I still gain. Why? Because the experience will help to improve my performance. We learn more from our defeats, after all.

Win or lose I won't be harmed in real life.

Win or lose I won't lose more than I can afford to lose because, well I ain't so bad at video games that I'd put myself in that position.

I suppose its just a difference in mindset in what we are looking for. Its just a game, I play for entertainment value and relaxation. Im not looking to win or lose, just to wind down and relax. For me that is exploring the galaxy, playing with the reputation system, and finding lucrative trade routes. I do enough in real life to fulfill my basic human need for achievement, I don't seek that from pixel domination, I ain't so bad at real life that I'd put myself in that position.

 

[CMDR Bansidhe]

I suppose its just a difference in mindset in what we are looking for. Its just a game, I play for entertainment value and relaxation. Im not looking to win or lose, just to wind down and relax. For me that is exploring the galaxy, playing with the reputation system, and finding lucrative trade routes. I do enough in real life to fulfill my basic human need for achievement, I don't seek that from pixel domination, I ain't so bad at real life that I'd put myself in that position.

So if you are equally happy in either circumstance why avoid the possibility of loss at all costs?

I get the relaxation part, that much is a given. But here our respective desires aren't mutually exclusive. I won't be harsh or even impolite when I rob you. I'll flatter you and tell you you have lovely eyes if it helps. Piracy doesn't have to be stressful. Just lie back and think of Proxima Centauri and it will all be over shortly. It may hurt a little at first but, who knows, you may even grow to like it. Open yourself to new experience. Give yourself over...

 

[kurush]

Yes it does but you appear to have, perhaps deliberately (I can't be sure), interpreted the actual statement in a way mean something else. So just so we're clear I'll post it the important bit in full:

I tell you that, I didn't even read it I'm glad they have a lot of points there that go along the line of what I am thinking, but I am mostly looking at the game and how it is designed with P2P and all that. There is no way in hell you can enforce non-consetual PvP in this architecture I doubt Frontier developers are dumb and don't understand that as some people here, so this was obviously done with intent and is unlikely to change.

 

[Commander Silex]

I suppose its just a difference in mindset in what we are looking for. Its just a game, I play for entertainment value and relaxation. Im not looking to win or lose, just to wind down and relax. For me that is exploring the galaxy, playing with the reputation system, and finding lucrative trade routes. I do enough in real life to fulfill my basic human need for achievement, I don't seek that from pixel domination, I ain't so bad at real life that I'd put myself in that position.

Winning and losing are subjective terms and we each take our victories in different ways. When I'm trading I'll take mine in outthinking or being better prepared than my opponents when opposition is unavoidable. That can be just as simply down to escaping them unharmed because I thought ahead and geared myself up... because I carried enough defenses to make acts of piracy against me extremely hard, kept a careful eye on my radar at all times, or knew when to bow out and find another route when the one I planned on gets too risky. It doesn't actually involve much PvP violence on my part and if it really comes down to that I have a few desperate last ditch options to let fly, or I might accept defeat and hand over some cargo. Occasionally I might end up dead, but I also plan ahead for that and carefully ensure I always have a decent pot of credits to fall back on. I'll feel disappointed when those days come, but every time I leave a pirate standing whilst I hyperspace off into the distance I'll get a nice warm rush of satisfaction, then also feel veeery relaxed and entertained.

That entire experience is a hundred times more meaningful than engaging reams of mindless AI, and yet I don't really think that is PvP in the traditional sense. I think that's an important distinction that needs to be made with Open.

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I tell you that, I didn't even read it I'm glad they have a lot of points there that go along the line of what I am thinking, but I am mostly looking at the game and how it is designed with P2P and all that. There is no way in hell you can enforce non-consetual PvP in this architecture I doubt Frontier developer are dumb and don't understand that as some people here, so this was obviously done with intent and is unlikely to change.

I'll agree with you on that and I personally don't support the notion it should be forced. On the other hand I also don't support the notion those who do engage in PvP should be villified, insulted and pillored, neither should those who don't want it at all.

 

[Dabba]

So if you are equally happy in either circumstance why avoid the possibility of loss at all costs?

I won't be harsh or even impolite when I rob you. I'll flatter you and tell you you have lovely eyes if it helps. Piracy doesn't have to be stressful. Just lie back and think of Proxima Centauri and it will all be over shortly. It may hurt a little at first but, who knows, you may even grow to like it. Open yourself to new experience. Give yourself over...

I feel like you just roofied my forum. Forum GHB not gonna work, Im enjoying myself in Solo and Mobius just fine thanks. Maybe if I eventually get bored exploring the galaxy with my 6 year old copilot, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

I'll agree with you on that and I personally don't support the notion it should be forced. On the other hand I also don't support the notion those who do engage in PvP should be villified, insulted and pillored, neither should those who don't want it at all.

We are in complete agreement then. I am certainly not calling for the rules of engagement on Open to be changed. It should be the wild west out there. The only people that Im going to vilify and insult are the ones that feel the need to start spouting coward, carebear, and the various other griefer buzzwords that the bullies have always used to try to shame the people that don't enjoy that particular dynamic into being their targets. You do you, Ill do me, we can all be happy.

 

[CMDR Bansidhe]

Winning and losing are subjective terms and we each take our victories in different ways. When I'm trading I'll take mine in outthinking or being better prepared than my opponents when opposition is unavoidable. That can be just as simply down to escaping them unharmed because I thought ahead and geared myself up... because I carried enough defenses to make acts of piracy against me extremely hard, kept a careful eye on my radar at all times, or knew when to bow out and find another route when the one I planned on gets too risky. It doesn't actually involve much PvP violence on my part and if it really comes down to that I have a few desperate last ditch options to let fly, or I might accept defeat and hand over some cargo. Occasionally I might end up dead, but I also plan ahead for that and carefully ensure I always have a decent pot of credits to fall back on. I'll feel disappointed when those days come, but every time I leave a pirate standing whilst I hyperspace off into the distance I'll get a nice warm rush of satisfaction, then also feel veeery relaxed and entertained.

That entire experience is a hundred imes more meaningful than engaging reams of mindless AI, and yet I don't really think that is PvP in the traditional sense. I think that's an important distinction that needs to be made with Open.

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I'll agree with you on that and I personally don't support the notion it should be forced. On the other hand I also don't support the notion those who do engage in PvP should be villified, insulted and pillored, neither should those who don't want it at all.

What you describe is exactly what I would consider to be PVP in a game world like the one we have. The idea that many seem to hold that PVPers just want an easy victim to destroy for "lulz", I believe the correct term would be, is as lazy as it is wrong. I want the additional thrill that no AI can give. I want someone to try to outsmart me. I want someone to try to outsmart. I want someone to outplan me and I want someone to attempt to outplan. I want the disappointment of seeing someone escape by the skin of their teeth as much as I want the excitement of escaping by the skin of mine.

I want the chance to lose. I want it to be a possibility. That's where the real excitement lies.

I don't just want a virtual someone to inflict surprise buttsex on. I have got a very real girlfriend for that.

 

[Jorlin]

In reply to the thread title: Why should I?

 

[Speedbrake]

In reply to the thread title: Why should I?

because with a silly response such as that you deserve a good hiding from a player.

 

[Sendraks]

because with a silly response such as that you deserve a good hiding from a player.

Nothing silly about that response. No one has presented a compelling reason as to why someone should try open over solo. There is no selling point.

 

[Jorlin]

because with a silly response such as that you deserve a good hiding from a player.

why is it silly?

i'm not afraid of "open", i spent most of my time in Beta looking for PvP from the siddy up to anaconda.
but i don't see why i should play in open when i don't want any kind of "interaction" with other players whenever i don't feel like it.

so my answer stands: Why should I?

 

[Dabba]

Nothing silly about that response. No one has presented a compelling reason as to why someone should try open over solo. There is no selling point.

This just isn't true either. If you read Bansidhes posts he gives you plenty of compelling reasons to play on Open, but only if you find those reasons compelling. Different people find different things compelling. I don't get why that is so hard to understand. I like brussel sprouts, I understand that a lot, probably even a majority of people, do not like brussel sprouts. I don't insult or berate people for not liking them, I just accept that we all have our own personal preferences.