Calling on the community to play in Open Play

[Jockey79]

Well, OP can update the number 10 on his list.

Since yesterday's update I've started seeing other players all over the place, this is great - it's starting to really feel like an MMO!

And hi to the commander I was chatting with (yes, even text chat was working) outside Diso/Shifnalport (I think?) who was scooping up all the rares that were just floating around out there. Too bad I'd just filled up

^ Not the first person and a whole thread on it, though to be fair CaptainKremmen did point this out yesterday to Reza (who he quoted) and got ignored on his point, his quote for those who missed it - this time *in context* as OP took it out of context.

You're just in time to be completely out of date with that comment.

As of yesterday, apparently due to matchmaking changes, I couldn't move for Commanders in Eravate or Lave...

Will these points in the OP be updated as FD deal with them, or am I right, it's just a troll list full of excuses to remove / hinder solo and private players?

 

[CMDR Bansidhe]

£90 package at Kickstart (the cheapest one that got all optional starts and the lifetime pass, I had no actual interest in the Beta access I got), purchased only after Frontier answered the requests of potential backers and promised the offline mode. In fact, I had already given up on backing ED when I found the news somewhere else that they had added an offline mode, and that was what moved me to support the game.
(Or rather, £20 pledge at Kickstart, and a £70 upgrade on their online store just after Kickstart finished.)

I never back a KS game that I can't fully play offline, and even when purchasing such a game after launch I'm exceedingly wary; if the offline mode was never promised, I likely wouldn't have bothered with ED at all, not even after it launched. Besides, a true offline mode has too many advantages; a true pause, no interference from others in my game, being able to back up and restore my save game (or even edit it), modding the game, etc.

Truth be told, right now I consider OOLite a better game than ED. ED has better graphics and audio, but I find OOLite more fun and engaging, in large part because of how frustrating having to deal with the online-only limitations is.

Man, that sucks. Sorry to hear that.

 

[Corwyn]

We've gone from "people need to play in Open Online" to "disappointed there's no offline mode"

There are plenty of threads about offline mode. Don't bring it here.

Mods, please close this thread.

 

[DarkWalker]

We've gone from "people need to play in Open Online" to "disappointed there's no offline mode"

They are linked. As fair as I can see, a fair number of people that refuse to play in open are players that purchased the game for the offline mode. Frontier itself was sending mails to everyone that asked for a refund begging them to consider playing in solo mode instead.

There are plenty of threads about offline mode. Don't bring it here.

I will bring up offline mode whenever I find it relevant for the discussion. And there aren't offline mode threads anymore because all the existing ones were locked, except for the refunds thread, where any post outside the very specific topic of refunds brings swift mod action.

 

[All-a-Mort]

They are linked. As fair as I can see, a fair number of people that refuse to play in open are players that purchased the game for the offline mode. Frontier itself was sending mails to everyone that asked for a refund begging them to consider playing in solo mode instead.

Exactly. In the context of the discussion, it is relevant to point out that Solo mode is the remaining option for those who wanted to play on their own in Offline and either dislike or are entirely uninterested in the MP mode.

The position of those of us who not participate in Open MP play could be summed up thusly:

1. Some of us like playing alone, as per the original Elite games, as per Egosoft's X series and indeed some wanted Offline to boot. Solo was designed to accommodate us.
2. Some of us like playing with other people, but not random people, considering some of them are immature griefers or use foul and often sexist and racist language. Groups allow us to socialise in game but with people we like and trust.
3. No convincing case has been made why anyone who isn't a combat/pirate junkie would want to play in Open. As more content is added by FD and more in-game activities are introduced that may change, but at present those of us who don't want to play the role of victim or fly around in a cheap fighter are not motivated to change. Claims of Open being more rewarding are one-sided. It is more rewarding only for those keen to pull the trigger on another human being.
4. Changes introduced in Patch 1.04 seem to have increased the chances of encountering other players in Open (not that I understand the how), in which case we might ask whether the request posed at the start of this long thread is actually needed and whether the fault was not that of Solo players apparent 'cowardice' but rather a technical issue on FD's side.

 

[CMDR Bansidhe]

We've gone from "people need to play in Open Online" to "disappointed there's no offline mode"

There are plenty of threads about offline mode. Don't bring it here.

Mods, please close this thread.

Sorry mate but calling for the thread to be closed is a really rude thing to do. Let the moderators moderate please, some of us may still be enjoying the discussion. You don't have to read it.

 

[Corwyn]

I play in solo mode, i have no issue with it. There's far too much data to make ED into a local only offline mode, that's why the solo online, which is understandable and acceptable.

The only reason to have offline mode is to be able to save games, and reload if your fail. Well, it's more challenging here this way, there's no challenge with save and reload.

 

[DoneWithFD]

£90 package at Kickstart (the cheapest one that got all optional starts and the lifetime pass, I had no actual interest in the Beta access I got), purchased only after Frontier answered the requests of potential backers and promised the offline mode. In fact, I had already given up on backing ED when I found the news somewhere else that they had added an offline mode, and that was what moved me to support the game.
(Or rather, £20 pledge at Kickstart, and a £70 upgrade on their online store just after Kickstart finished.)

I never back a KS game that I can't fully play offline, and even when purchasing such a game after launch I'm exceedingly wary; if the offline mode was never promised, I likely wouldn't have bothered with ED at all, not even after it launched. Besides, a true offline mode has too many advantages; a true pause, no interference from others in my game, being able to back up and restore my save game (or even edit it), modding the game, etc.

I have pretty much the same mindset as you. What I wanted is what you describe here. I have absolutely no interest in an online game, to the point where I barely play this game I paid 60 Euros for (Beta, Mercenary Edition). I bought an offline game, but got bait-and-switch'd by FD. I requested a refund, but they never even bothered responding. They'd rather have unhappy customers than do the right thing.

Now I'm left with a game that I don't feel like investing time in. I have limited time to enjoy playing games and the risk of just losing all progress in this stupid online game is too big for me to bother with.

I don't mind challenge, but I loathe risking all progress and losing hours upon hours to some simple/dumb mishap. I played through Demon's Souls, Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2 with no guides or hints. That was a challenge, Demon's Souls in particular - but for all the work you put in you never risk losing the time/progress invested. All I wanted was to control my saves/game progress in ED. But FD decided to snuff that and deliver a game that I have no interest in, despite what they advertised right up to shortly before release of the current still beta-state game.

I've had three buddies inquire about this game (old fans of the past Elite games) and telling them how the game is online only with no local data has dissuaded all of them from buying the game as they have no interest in what the game currently is. Bait-and-switch tactics, bad customer care etc. from FD didn't do much for their confidence either.

 

[kurush]

I have pretty much the same mindset as you. What I wanted is what you describe here. I have absolutely no interest in an online game, to the point where I barely play this game I paid 60 Euros for (Beta, Mercenary Edition). I bought an offline game, but got bait-and-switch'd by FD.

But at least we can some fun here trolling the group of people I personally dislike. I mean griefers that some people here call PvPers And being a beta backer I got bait and switched out of a larger amount, wouldn't ever consider pledging for an online game. Looks like PvP crowd got a bit of the same medicine when somewhere in the middle avdertisement switched to target them. And yes, I am playing Open but mostly to troll these people there

 

[DoneWithFD]

I play in solo mode, i have no issue with it. There's far too much data to make ED into a local only offline mode, that's why the solo online, which is understandable and acceptable.

I think the amount of data is far, far smaller you than you think. Model assets, textures, sound; these things are what take up space. The procedural aspect of the universe that draws on a pre-defined pool of assets is likely not that big. Just think about all the star systems Elite fitted on a good old floppy. The entirety of Elite Dangerous is probably much, muich smaller than your average, contemporary 50 GB AAA action game.

The only reason to have offline mode is to be able to save games, and reload if your fail. Well, it's more challenging here this way, there's no challenge with save and reload.

For me it has nothing to do with challenge, really. It's about controling the time invested in form of local data under my control. The challenge level in a game really has nothing to do with saves. Loving to run the risk of starting over has nothing to do with challenge, it's more like some testosterone fueled macho thing that apparently some people find joy in. Or something like that...

 

[All-a-Mort]

It's interesting revisiting this thread having been reading the 'How FD Can Head Off A Hypothetical Goon Takeover' thread. This raises a few questions for the PVP crowd and for those who play solo:

1. In the event that a group, Goons, Crusade or some other did attempt to takeover or blockade a system (obvs Crusade is attempting to do that in the rare goods systems currently) would PVPers consider this to be the sort of emergent dynamic gameplay they are seeking or does their interest not extend beyond being part of one of those groups? The obvious solution for Open players to a group trying to blockade a system is simply to create a counter group to take it back.

2. Crusade are at the moment (so I gather...perhaps one of them will clarify this matter) looking to blockade certain of the systems known to be part of the rare items trade route. As mentioned, it can't really inconvenience people that much unless they steadfastly refuse to go solo and are unlucky enough to be placed within the same instance as some the Crusade participants. But...reconsidering the point made by the Open players in this thread and allowing that FD might in fact tacitly approve of or at least not condemn such blockade attempts in say Lave or Orrere, is it not an idea that Rare item trading could be restricted to Open play only? It is to some extent one of the more used get rich quick schemes in the game to date, so might it therefore be an option to restrict it to the more Dangerous open world, where the likes of Crusade etc can have more of an effect in the game and potentially elicit the formation of a rival group? I don't suggest this to diminish the experience of the Solo players (after all I am one), but in the safer world of Solo there are ample ways to earn some credits, so perhaps making the risks match the potential benefits of getting rich quick might be an idea. After all, if both traders and pirates can only access rare wares in Open, it gives both something to play for.

 

[CMDR Bansidhe]

It's interesting revisiting this thread having been reading the 'How FD Can Head Off A Hypothetical Goon Takeover' thread. This raises a few questions for the PVP crowd and for those who play solo:

1. In the event that a group, Goons, Crusade or some other did attempt to takeover or blockade a system (obvs Crusade is attempting to do that in the rare goods systems currently) would PVPers consider this to be the sort of emergent dynamic gameplay they are seeking or does their interest not extend beyond being part of one of those groups? The obvious solution for Open players to a group trying to blockade a system is simply to create a counter group to take it back.

2. Crusade are at the moment (so I gather...perhaps one of them will clarify this matter) looking to blockade certain of the systems known to be part of the rare items trade route. As mentioned, it can't really inconvenience people that much unless they steadfastly refuse to go solo and are unlucky enough to be placed within the same instance as some the Crusade participants. But...reconsidering the point made by the Open players in this thread and allowing that FD might in fact tacitly approve of or at least not condemn such blockade attempts in say Lave or Orrere, is it not an idea that Rare item trading could be restricted to Open play only? It is to some extent one of the more used get rich quick schemes in the game to date, so might it therefore be an option to restrict it to the more Dangerous open world, where the likes of Crusade etc can have more of an effect in the game and potentially elicit the formation of a rival group? I don't suggest this to diminish the experience of the Solo players (after all I am one), but in the safer world of Solo there are ample ways to earn some credits, so perhaps making the risks match the potential benefits of getting rich quick might be an idea. After all, if both traders and pirates can only access rare wares in Open, it gives both something to play for.

I like your thinking.

I can't speak for the rest of the PVP crowd but, for me, the answer to your question is that I would, most definitely consider it emergent gameplay and would respond to it according to my mood. My first inclination would be to form or join a counter group and attempt to balance the situation. I think the 32 per instance limit would hamper this somewhat, though, as this would tend towards players trying to form fleets. It's possible, as far as I understand things, that the "goons" or any similar force could occupy a system to the point that they had 31 members in that system and therefore anyone else who got put into that instance would immediately be outnumbered 31 - 1

Now obviously this is unlikely and is an extreme example but you can see how a coordinate group could game the instancing system to ensure they always vastly outnumbered any potential enemy fleet.

The again on other days I'd be just as likely to be part of a blockading squad.

It's a game after all so no need to take it too seriously.

 

[Maiakaat]

I got killed for the first time a few days ago. I made two beginner mistakes (a. forgot to adjust power distribution meaning shields didn't recharge, and b. Didn't change from mining fire group even though I thought I had).

I was killed by an NPC, and this angered me far more than if it were a player, especially as I was scanned by security every five minutes who did absolutely nothing to the pirates hunting through the mining fields for 30 minutes. I guess this is contrary to those who get the same feeling being killed by players.

Off topic: At the moment the rewards for mining (like bounty hunting) just in no way correlate to the risks, as most mining areas seem to be swamped with NPC pirates, and the cargo scoop seems to be calibrated badly. Play still seems heavily biased towards trading, over exploration, mining, bounty hunting, combat, pirate hunting, black market trading and so on.

On Topic: The newsletter said more Multiplayer features are coming in addition to the wings update.

Since the update any planet I go even remotely near comes up with a slow down message too, I have to lock destination twice sometimes, NPC's are still getting constantly blasted in stations and stuck in the docking bay, and the idea that anybody can scan your cargo bay with no option to fit a shielded bay seems to be another thing Frontier could do to help traders who don't want to be killed for cargo. If its not fixed in v1.05 I will probably file support tickets, but they seem to have a 2 month backlog at the moment.

 

[madfish]

First of all I LOVE online play. I played online when most people didn't even have a computer yet. However, Elite is one of the games where I completely hate it. And that is sad because the dynamic universe would be a perfect sandbox to take part in.
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However, currently the game doesn't outweight the negatives with positives.
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1. The comms have to be improved drastically
2. the "instancing" is a pain, it took me a while to even figure out how the server clusters work and why I wasn't able to see friends.
3. There is no content to work on as a group. E.g. rough missions that require groups to beat.
4. The AI is horrible and hardly a challenge for one pilot but certainly none for many
5. There is no "community". Even if you find someone you could play with you end up having to go different ways again (be it missions, trading, even exploring is hard to do together if you want to go for far away systems)
6. The only exception of the point above would be bounty hunting but since bounty isn't split that's also not working out and needs to be improved.
7. Personally I see nothing to outweight the people who only go after CMDRs and ingore the whole NPC world gameplay (which should be 99,9999% of the intended gameplay considering how big Elite is)
8. No consequences for CMDRs "going all out" (murder, piracy etc. on a really big scale). It's like there is no difference if you pirate / murder or just accidently hit a vessel and gained a 300CR fine. If you take it this far you should have to risk losing all or a lot of your stuff when being caught / killed. Also AI should respond accordingly (even in PVE) and come after a big threat with more than just 2 Eagles or a Viper.
9. There isn't much balance which is crucial for an MMO sandbox.

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That said there are many other things that affect it. And frankly I doubt the playerbase of Elite is more than 50-100k players. Which is also a point: we don't even know how big the community is. But as per design of Elite that shouldn't even matter.
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To summarize it: there aren't enough reasons to play together. Almost no goals to be had that aren't made impossible by the current framework. All that's really left is a multiplayer that has little community in it, always the feeling of turning around and getting shot in the back. If I had to compare the gameplay to another game I'd pick DayZ.
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If FD manages to change that and make trolling an exception rather than the norm the open play will certainly see a lot more players.
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[EDIT]

...Off topic: At the moment the rewards for mining (like bounty hunting) just in no way correlate to the risks, as most mining areas seem to be swamped with NPC pirates, and the cargo scoop seems to be calibrated badly.
...

You can mine anywhere in the rings and there will be no NPCs. Avoid resource extraction zones.
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Which is also another point: there is no focus mechanic (e.g. FORCING people to mine in specific zones or be hunted down and killed by AI) that drives people together. No warzone (e.g. alien invasion etc.) either.
We need that to improve players actually working together and not spread out as much as possible. 400 billion solar systems are nice - but in the end useless to gameplay, even as an explorer.
[/EDIT]

 

[Cmdr Sharky]

Got interdicted by a player for the first time last night. Told me "cut engines", but no way! Boost boost boost! I flicked over to the cargo screen and dumped 4 tons of what I was carrying, he said "4 more" but by then I was ready to supercruise out and I did.

I was carrying about 20 tons of rare commodities, all from nearby systems so they weren't much value unless he gets a reasonable harvest of local rare goods worth making a >100ly trip somewhere to offload them. So, he made a profit without even racking up a bounty since he never shot at me, but the profit wasn't that great. This guy was doing me a service, providing a challenge and risk that I find enjoyable, and I feel bad that he didn't get much reward for that. I have no idea what kind of ship he was flying, or what his name was, I was too busy getting the hell out of there even to take a screenshot!