NPCs with faces

I absolutely enjoy playing ED and even like most of it's more disputed aspects like real-time mission times, strict friendly fire rules etc.

But there is one thing I really dislike: the total absence of any NPCs in the game. I am not even talking about persistent NPCs (even though they should definitely remain on the "features-to-come" list!), but NPCs at all. Yes, we see NPC ships with funny names, but we never see the actual pilots (be it just as static bitmaps or as fully fleshed out and animated polygonal models).

And the mission givers don't even have names! How am I supposed to feel any kind of relation to a faction in some system if there are no actual people there, and none in the whole galaxy, for that matter?

Even FFE had characters with faces and personality (even with full motion video), hell, you could even engage in some simple conversations with them (which was basic but loads of fun)! Isn't ED supposed to be the fourth part of the Elite series? Wouldn't you consider it as an actual step back to have a very cool feature like the NPC conversation mechanic from a former game removed in the the new game?

First_encounters2_180.jpg

I know it's going to be pretty difficult to implement many different character models that
1. graphically hold up to the high standards ED already established and
2. have enough variety so that you don't meet the same manually modeled face in every space station.

But couldn't it be realized procedurally with some kind of sophisticated character model system like that used in games like Eve:Online, Mass Effect and many other MMOs? Then FD wouldn't have to model all the individual faces manually and instead just create the character model system and give it random some seed values for new NPCs you encounter in station bulletin boards etc. That system could even be expanded with new facial / body / clothing options in the future.

Eve: Online character creator:

[video=youtube;yo9L8d-5x20]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo9L8d-5x20[/video]

Black Desert (probably not a very good game, but this character creator is cool, isn't it?):

[video=youtube;4TP4L1vHfpk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TP4L1vHfpk[/video]

Even a much less ambitious space sim then ED, Rebel Galaxy, has NPC characters (granted: those are likely created manually) that you can have conversations with, and judging from the trailer it already gives that game a lot of personality:

[video=youtube;Q9jr8uZ-UQI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9jr8uZ-UQI&t=0m18s[/video]

Here is a quote from a Polygon article (http://www.polygon.com/features/2014/10/14/6974343/rebel-galaxy-diablo-torchlight-double-damage) about the game that describes the benefit of having NPCs with faces you can interact with pretty good:

Players will be able to speak to individual units while in the battlespace, but they’ll also come in contact at interstellar watering holes — cantinas, taverns and the like. The real joy of discovery, the team hopes, will come in meeting and interacting with the game’s alien races either by entering their systems or buying them a drink.

"When we were outsourcing character art," Baldree said, "Jim Henson puppets came up a lot. We asked artists to think about The Dark Crystal, to talk about how these characters were made.

"And that’s also a throwback to Star Control 2, which had that kind of character to it. That’s one of the things that I always liked about that game. It wasn’t cold. There was a lot of warmth to it, and we wanted a lot of that."



To be clear here: I don't expect the devs to manually use such character model creation tools to create all the countless individual NPCs in the game. Instead I see these character modeling tools as something that could be automated and give you some faces you can relate to when browsing the bulletin boards, talking to the police NPCs on stations or engaging in negotiations with black market representatives. For more important NPCs ("tier 1", to keep the old DDA terminology, like the imperial family and senators etc.), the devs could use the modeling tool manually to create exactly those faces they think would convey the NPCs character in the best way!

If we really get a first person expansion for walking around space stations and on planet surfaces, don't we need NPCs with faces and in fact bodies anyway?

I sometimes have the feeling I am the only one who is really unhappy about the state of the NPCs. For a game that puts so much effort on being immersive (and succeeds in many ways, I think!), not having any faces - or humans at all, for that matter - in the whole galaxy is kind of a serious blow, IMHO.
 
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Thanks a lot for the link. I must have missed this specific article in the DDA (perhaps because I thought that https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7494 would be the only thread concerning NPCs).

I like the whole idea of "contacts" and that every tier 2 NPC (if we ever actually get those persistent NPCs!) can potentially become a contact. It would really add a sense of continuity and depth to the galaxy. A NPC based reputation system sounds awesome, so not everyone would grind rep with the same individuals. Being able to influence the behavior of the NPC towards the player is a great concept, I really hope we see something like this in the future!

As good as both threads (persistant NPCs, contacts) sound, I see the problem that we do not know which of these design considerations is actually planned to be implemented someday. If all those great ideas materialize someday, it would be absolutely great. But at the same time FD could have already ditched all those great ambitious ideas. It would be so cool to know what they at least still consider to implement some time in the future and what feature has been abandoned altogether.

The prerequisite for consistent NPCs and contacts is that there are NPCs with whom you can interact to begin with, but I don't see any (apart from the ships that Isaac Newton and his friends fly around in. No much interaction besides fighting, though).

And I didn't find anything about what I am proposing in this request, the visual representation of NPCs. Did I miss something?

Do we have any statements from FD about the current status of persistent NPCs, contacts and visual representation of NPCs? What's the latest official information we got?
 
I think Michael Brookes recently mentioned a major update to the mission system was underway. Maybe this is related to NPCs, but other than that I think no statements directly relating to NPCs have been made. Maybe Frontier will be kind enough to give us a hint.
 
I'd really like to see the persistent characters make it into the game. Even if they don't have any practical effect at first, it would go a long way to giving some personality to the galaxy.
 
I think Michael Brookes recently mentioned a major update to the mission system was underway. Maybe this is related to NPCs, but other than that I think no statements directly relating to NPCs have been made. Maybe Frontier will be kind enough to give us a hint.

Thanks for the info. That's the only update that I recall that remotely concerns NPCs, too.
 
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Is there any chance to get just some little information from the devs if anything concerning NPCs is coming at all or if the system is already in it's final state?
 
Is there any chance to get just some little information from the devs if anything concerning NPCs is coming at all or if the system is already in it's final state?
Well, you'd have to ask the devs.

But as a larger point, since their stated intentions are that the game will continue to be under development, I don't think any of the systems are necessarily in their 'final' state. They've stated repeatedly that they don't ever want the game to be 'finished', they want to keep developing it and improving it for years to come.
 
The view from Frontier has always been that they don't want Elite to be too "spreadsheety", but at present, that is how it is unfortunately.

I completely agree with your post Arubeto, we need some faces. Even one npc character at stations, would be a great start. It really worked in the old games, adding personality, and providing a face behind the economy.

I would add, there is nothing more soul destroying than seeing a close-up of another players ship with an empty pilots chair.

These things will come hopefully, but it doesn't change the fact that I really miss them now.
 

The problem is that Frontier has come out and bluntly stated that the Design discussions are only guidelines and they're not a list of "what's coming up" unless they've confirmed that. To be honest, even when they've 'confirmed' something, unless they give a definite timeline with a list of what precisely the feature entails, I'd be hesitant now to just say that "this feature is coming up".

Shoot, for "Wings" we still don't have an clue what is coming up in it beyond "some multiplayer stuff including something about teaming up with others". Some details and communication regarding upcoming features that are set in stone (or as set in stone as possible).
 
+1. I mean, surely it's a given in 2015 that a (pretty generic) block of text does not suffice. It'll come eventually I would have thought.
 
I do miss the bulletin board faces from Elite 2.

As do many of us apparently. I personally would like to see procedurally generated npcs for all of the above and then some. I want to see portraits of the guys telling me to drop my cargo (pirates), from those offering me some service (luxury goods) and yes, even the guy scanning me for illegal goods. The original only had so many faces to choose from (if I remember correctly) but with the new software being able to produce billions of stars, I think having a good assortment of npc faces would not be to much to ask for here.
+1 and repped
 
Well I don't want faces for the npcs. I don't want to see them at all. As it is now, I'm quite happy dealing with all my anonymous mission givers via the BB via ship's computer. No matter how well they may be drawn or generated, they'd still look like fake plastic. I'd agree the empty cockpits need pilots in there, and I hope they'd be helmeted or visored, as again I don't want to see fake plastic faces.
 
Well I don't want faces for the npcs. I don't want to see them at all. As it is now, I'm quite happy dealing with all my anonymous mission givers via the BB via ship's computer. No matter how well they may be drawn or generated, they'd still look like fake plastic. I'd agree the empty cockpits need pilots in there, and I hope they'd be helmeted or visored, as again I don't want to see fake plastic faces.

Have you even seen some of the generators currently available?

Fake plastic faces are a thing of the past. Seriously watch the vids posted by the OP and I am sure with some 3d magic, holograms of those you are conversing with would IMO add immensely to the realism of the game.
 
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Well, you'd have to ask the devs.

But as a larger point, since their stated intentions are that the game will continue to be under development, I don't think any of the systems are necessarily in their 'final' state. They've stated repeatedly that they don't ever want the game to be 'finished', they want to keep developing it and improving it for years to come.

Yeah, I know that FD always said that Elite: Dangerous wouldn't ever be really "finished", but I do think that NPCs with faces are something you'd rather include sooner than later, since they are such an integral part of every aspect of the game and the galaxy.

And you are right of course, I should ask the devs directly. But that was really the intention of this thread: to get Michael or someone else to just give one little statement about NPCs, if they have some plans for them or if they don't.

But to make it totally unambiguous that this is a question directed at the devs:


Dear Mr Brookes,

could you give us a short notice if you are planning to add something to the NPCs in the foreseeable future? Or are you happy with their current state? Are we ever gonna see any of those wonderful ambitious plans about persistent NPCs and contacts actually being implemented into the game? Or have you abandoned those ideas of the DDA?

Any piece of information would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
 
Have you even seen some of the generators currently available?

Fake plastic faces are a thing of the past. Seriously watch the vids posted by the OP and I am sure with some 3d magic, holograms of those you are conversing with would IMO add immensely to the realism of the game.

I have my doubts FD would put in the effort and expense to implement an acceptable level of realism when they have a ton of work still to flesh out what we have now. I'd rather they do not do anything at all as regards npc faces than put in a half redacted effort anytime soon.
 
The problem is that Frontier has come out and bluntly stated that the Design discussions are only guidelines and they're not a list of "what's coming up" unless they've confirmed that. To be honest, even when they've 'confirmed' something, unless they give a definite timeline with a list of what precisely the feature entails, I'd be hesitant now to just say that "this feature is coming up".

Shoot, for "Wings" we still don't have an clue what is coming up in it beyond "some multiplayer stuff including something about teaming up with others". Some details and communication regarding upcoming features that are set in stone (or as set in stone as possible).

Yes, that is something that worries me, too. There are so many cool ideas in the DDA and it would be such a waste if they all were nothing more than just the results of some brainstorming, with no real intention to ever implement them.

I wouldn't even need any specifics about what is going to change about NPCs, just if something is gonna change at all.
 
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