My one major disapointment as an 84er

[smsKONG]

I don't disagree but I don't want to have to play the interdiction game half a dozen times en route or submit over and over to swat flies. I'd be all for lots more combat that wasn't so financially punishing if you took even 1% hull damage in a large ship. If you take a major beatdown, sure, pyrrhic victories should be expensive. Otherwise cleaning the clock of a souped-up Cobra with a 2000 cr bounty that managed to inflict 15000 cr damage is going to make trading less appealing, and right now that's the only way to realistically afford better equipment in a reasonable time. Exploring would just go completely to hell if an hour spent scanning a system turns into a loss because an Eagle managed to get through your shields.

I get where you are coming from. (I've had some nasty prangs in an asp and a clipper )
But we aren't talking about all systems becoming nightmarish - just nil sec anarchy.
Trade routes that must already be researched would then require taking system politics/security into account.
Profits should also be more likely when risking the anarchy sectors for trade - less traders willing to risk a run there means higher supply and demand figures as no one is willing to go there!

Players who like it safe will have to stick to high sec areas - less profit as you are following the trodden path; but less risk as no one is shooting at you!

I also like to think that any endeavour which sees your bank account increasing whilst staying alive as a successful one!

Increasing the difficulty shouldn't cause people to stop playing - it should make them play differently, even if that means slowing the rate of asset accumulation or expectations thereof.
Of course what it actually does is causes people to complain instead of learn and adapt!

I don't know why the world is all about instant success and gratification these days, but unfortunately it seems to be :S

 

[Piasecznik]

While I agree difficulty should be lot higher, I must point out that reward should be worth the risk. If I would loose my cargo let say once per 3 trips, ill be broke in no time. There is no save system. Once you can't afford insurance, you are back to 1000cr and sidewinder. It is quite heavy punishment.

 

[Walt Kerman]

While I agree difficulty should be lot higher, I must point out that reward should be worth the risk. If I would loose my cargo let say once per 3 trips, ill be broke in no time. There is no save system. Once you can't afford insurance, you are back to 1000cr and sidewinder. It is quite heavy punishment.

You would not lose you cargo in 1 out of three trips. You would take precautions and change your strategy or stick to safer routes.

 

[Poisonberry]

Anarchy should be "Demon Souls" in space.

 

[Valence]

Throughout late beta, most of the interdictions were by security vessels who wanted to scan you. It got to the point where you'd be interdicted repeatedly even if you weren't wanted. It wasn't more dangerous than it is now. it was just annoying.

Instead of ramping up the difficulty across the board, I think there should be some less common but extremely challenging content added. Maybe a certain pirate faction encroaching into a system with beastly ships or numbers. Maybe certain phenomena encountered while in supercruise that must be avoided with clever flying....radiation....meteor showers from passing comets....dark matter disturbances that overload your fsd....

I feel like many people in this thread are probably above average pilots that could use some difficult aspects added for their gameplay's sake but tipping the entire scale one way will just ruin the fun for the people at the other end of the spectrum. I hope a good compromise is found.

Love the game here so far

 

[Quineloe]

Is this supposed to disprove my point or something? Are they one upping each other on who can do the easiest thing? Or was it a one up because its more difficult? Did the achievement not inspire people? What are you getting at?

Yes, your point is that they did it as an example of what's challenging, and you're wrong.

Are you saying you can't come up with an example of people doing something really challenging and expensive just for the sake of it? Is this your best example? :/
The same government also tried to 1-up the soviets by building thousands of nuclear weapons, there was nothing challenging about that.

 

[DCello]

Throughout late beta, most of the interdictions were by security vessels who wanted to scan you. It got to the point where you'd be interdicted repeatedly even if you weren't wanted. It wasn't more dangerous than it is now. it was just annoying.

Instead of ramping up the difficulty across the board, I think there should be some less common but extremely challenging content added. Maybe a certain pirate faction encroaching into a system with beastly ships or numbers. Maybe certain phenomena encountered while in supercruise that must be avoided with clever flying....radiation....meteor showers from passing comets....dark matter disturbances that overload your fsd....

I feel like many people in this thread are probably above average pilots that could use some difficult aspects added for their gameplay's sake but tipping the entire scale one way will just ruin the fun for the people at the other end of the spectrum. I hope a good compromise is found.

Love the game here so far

That's called "endgame content" on MMO's. As the AI improves and more ships are added over time, the game should be difficult enough so that people in this thread start complaining it's too difficult and needs balance.

 

[Heracles]

OP the answer is right in front of you. You want more of a challenge? Then play how the game was majorly designed, to be played in an open world with other players. There is always a way to figure out how to beat every NPC, other people will constantly surprise you.

I for instance have 37 insurance claims worth 11.5 million credits lost at this writing (16 million in assets). I play elite dangerously and make my space bucks solely by pirating players for rares in Lave or other rare hubs. Some people drop cargo, some don't and escape, some forcefully drop by limpits, some I send to the insurance collector, and then every so often someone does the same to me for 100's of thousands and a couple players millions of credits in bounties. The fact is every encounter is different and everyone reacts dynamically to the situation. Instead of asking them to shift the NPCs like a thermostat where 70 is hot as hell, and 68 is freeeeeezing, but 69 is just right...but wait not for that skinny guy next to you, do your normal thing in open play instead where you actually can make decisions on how your ship is kitted out for in case you get in a scrap with players, or keep the same basic NPC killing spec and just run or beg for your life, give up cargo, or hell get destroyed by someone killing just for fun...it happens people it is a GAME.

+1
I had Elite in the 80's on a C64! So recall the big S, the Thargoids,( like those other 'oids... a real PITA)...oh and the Energy Bombs, remember using those against swarming Thargoids!

I think ED is going to develop nicely in the comming months. I have been in the ED universe since the 16 th December and must admit I am addicted. The choice of role is there. Do it your own way. Mine, explore, fight,trade,fly online with groups,fly online as a lone wolf, fly solo .....whatever

Insofar as difficulty? It's a sandbox design. So it can and should be very flexible and all things to all men..and girls.

All I can say about difficulty is that the Anarchy systems should be more like what they were, i.e. places to avoid if you are not wanting a scrap or places to relish if you want to test your new hard ass Asp and your mettle against deadly anarchists who would kill you and steal your ship,cargo and your ego with cold relish!

Finally a replay feature with external view would be eye candy I for one would relish! But realise in a game that's largely online, this may not be possible.

Keep right on commanders!

 

[DCello]

So it can and should be very flexible and all things to all men..and girls.

"Women".
"(...) men...and women."

 

[Hooplah]

I wonder if a Skill Level selection (Easy, Medium, Hard, Suicide) would work. It would be mainly about NPC changes per quantity and quality of attacks but would offer players a greater challenge when desired. Thus all could select their personal level.

 

[Mikkel Toxwenius]

This is not meant to be a ranty post. I'll still be playing elite today. Its just a bit of a frustration.

I feel like Elite is a game they set on "easy" and if it were really a single player game I'd have bumped it up to "hard" by now. The NPC side of things is just trival. I've lost only once in combat after about 9 million in bounties and that was my first day in an eagle vrs a NPC that had rail guns. Once. I've had to flee from combat due to losing, never, (only when the cops started to chase me and I'd rather not "win" and lose standing).

I've made maybe 15 more million trading. I've been interdicted maybe 8 times, I've had a shot landed on me once. The only time an NPC has got my trader near death was when an NPC cop ship flew head on at me while docking (he died I lived).

Why do I only find pirate groups in USS's?
Why do I have to go to mining locations or illogical "nav beacons" for combat?
Why do I get to fly, with 2+ million in cargo, unmolested, every time?

In the original elite, getting to the station could be a very difficult task. It was a huge effort to dock in an anarchy system. I think in ED the interdiction rate is slightly higher in anarchy but its just boost boost fsd bye.

I want the dangerous sprinkles to my elite. I want to make a risky trade run for huge profit or settle for a low profit milk run. Right now they are HIGH profit milk runs. I want to be interdicted and then jumped by multiple ships. Currently the only way to get that is play in open in obvious trade locations.

I hear things were at times harder in beta/gamma. Bring that back soon (tm)! Add to it! Give me a reason to not be a solo multi millionaire with only the next order of magnitude bigger ship to look forward to.

Agree with you 100%. When a player interdicts me (which sadly happens way to infrequent) I always submit interdiction, and when they msg me "cargo or die", I smile. Finally, some danger and real action Still it's not dangerous, I can just boost away in my cobra. What do you think is the cause for this easy mode? Is it intentional to please carebears and casual players? Or is it just a lack of content, lack of work put into game design? (and thus hopefully something that will improve, and difficulty will get considerably harder, especially in anarchy/low sec systems)

EDIT: In fact, I find my self boosting very near past players in the dock just for kicks and best if I scratch them a bit and our ships wobble some. I know it's wrong, but it's fun and a bit dangerous.

 

[Mr. Woof]

It had to be said that in original elite I was pooing myself regularly on dangerous routes and you really breathed a sigh of relief when you docked safely.

That's absolutely correct and I remember strongly thinking about which systems to fly to for trading and whether it was worth the risk (or sometimes at least the hassle) to be attacked almost certainly.

In general I thing in safe systems (like prospering democracies etc) the game can stay the same. This way people who want to avoid danger can still trade and make a good living. Now basically all systems that aren't conflict zones are basically the same. They are almost completely safe. But anarchy is anarchy, and when I go in there with a ship filled with 40t of gold because they pay triple prices there, I must expect to get mugged. Walking around in a large city's most gang-infested neighborhood at night with the wrong skin colour in an Armani suit, with cash hanging from the pockets and gold hanging around your neck normally shouldn't make anyone feel safe either.
So there should be some relation between the system's political structure, economy, prosperity etc. In a rich dictatorship for example there could be a large police presence with partly corrupt cops that interdict you for bribes. And in a very poor struggling democracy there could be almost anarchy because they can't afford enough police. Or they declare martial law and the Federal Navy intervenes and stops and searches any ship they come across. That would make the whole thing a bit more diverse. And information as to that can be made accessible via the galaxy map and if there are major changes they are announced via GalNet.

 

[salad]

AI needs a huge boost, we should be afraid to cross some systems due to high hostility!

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

AI needs a huge boost, we should be afraid to cross some systems due to high hostility!

Used to be this way for a short period in Beta. Some systems Anacondas would chain-interdict you all the way to the station. The traders pitched a fit and it was nuked.

 

[Walt Kerman]

Yes, your point is that they did it as an example of what's challenging, and you're wrong.

Are you saying you can't come up with an example of people doing something really challenging and expensive just for the sake of it? Is this your best example? :/
The same government also tried to 1-up the soviets by building thousands of nuclear weapons, there was nothing challenging about that.

My point is that their is value in doing something challenging, be it proving your superiority over the soviets or just proving to yourself or others you can do something few others can do. You can find joy in that as well, or whatever your purpose is.

I think my point went entirely over your head because you are arguing my point.

"Is this your best example? :/"​

The space race and the reasons behind it seems like a good example of proving superiority to me. Many players challenge themselves to do things other players can't for the same reason.

"The same government also tried to 1-up the soviets by building thousands of nuclear weapons, there was nothing challenging about that."
​

​

I mean its only rocket science combined with nuclear physics and some countries are still trying to achieve that (and getting sanctioned). Not challenging i guess.

I think you are purposely trolling me and I might as well not respond at this point.

 

[xxThe_Dice_manxx]

Couldn't agree with the OP more, the difficulty needs to be cranked up considerably, there is no challenge what so ever at the moment.

 

[Tharsys]

Has anyone tried to get a reputation hated in the Empire, Federation and Alliance?

 

[Aernir]

Fully agree with the need for more challenge. I'm what I would call a passable pilot, not completely clueless but nothing special either, and even at my level NPCs don't pose much of a challange.

I've made a grand total of 4 insurance claims since I started playing since a week or so after launch. Twice during my first couple of days since I was brand new and incompetent, once from smearing my kitted out Viper against the wall right below the docking port in a station, and finally a couple of days ago I got blasted by a CMDR at an Anarchy nav point while in the galaxy map looking for another hunting ground (They really should give you more feedback as to what's happening to your ship while in the Gal map, I've got more awareness while Alt-tabbed.).

The level of competence that the NPC combatants possess truly dawned on me a couple of days ago. Was in my freshly bought Asp, D-level upgrades across the board except a B rated power distributor and C shields. Target pops up, an "Elite" Eagle with a 7k bounty. Sure, I'll give that a go.

What I would expect to happened: The little git is Elite, and his ship not only outdoes mine in maneuverability by a huge marging, but is also boosts faster and is around the same speed during normal flight. I'd expect him to stick to my fat, juicy like a frenzied leech, slowly whittling me down with his peashooters until I supercruise away with my proverbial tail between my legs.

What actually happened: I engaged and soon enough I've bested him in a straight up maneuvering contest. No fancy tricks, certainly no FA-off shenanigans. Not even reversing my thrusters to keep the more agile but weaker ship in my sights while letting my superior shield and firepower do the job. Just straight up turning with him, using my vertical and lateral thrusters to cancel out my inertia as I turn and managing my speed and power distribution. And I didn't even do a particularly good job of either. If the little was "Elite" at anything, it sure wasn't combat.

Conclusion? At least the "Master" rank NPCs and above need some serious tweaking. Even killing the Elite Anacondas become routine rather than exciting soon enough. Leave the lower rated NPCs where they are to serve as fodder for newbies, with Competent and Expert ranked ones being there to force them to gradually get better. Would probably be a good idea to make the bounties scale up a bit more at the higher levels if they would actually become a challenge. Also, I'd much like to see NPCs start moving more in groups. The only ones I can think of at the moments that do it are the merchant ships with Sidewinder escorts. Pirate packs could also help alleviate the problem with combat occupations largely evening out in profits from the Viper/Cobra and onwards, since income appears more so limited by the number of targets you find, and bigger ships should be better able deal with multiple attackers as you wipe them out one by one.

PvP seems to be the only real challange so far, but you're unlikely to be able to engage in other combat fitted player ships all that often considering the relative rarity of running into other CMDRs (especially when you discount the traders that might not even have shield, much less guns and the will to fight) and the costs of operating a ship built for fighting. Personally I'll probably make some more credits, and then buy a disposable Viper, kit it out, and head towards whatever Conflict Zone is popular at the moment looking for a fight and hope I find one (or more, preferably).

 

[deMangler]

Most of the counter arguments here are talking about how difficult the game should be. It isn't about that. The game, the galaxy is big enough for everything from low profit safe systems to high profit suicidally dangerous systems it just doesn't contain any of the latter and that is really weird.
The game is Elite, as an '84er I remember what that means I have probably spent years in that game.
For those advocating that NPC's should scale with the player - again this is not possible in a multiplexer game, nor is it desirable. The closest the game can come to this is providing missions based on rank that take you to more dangerous systems and the like. At the moment this is not possible because there ARE no dangerous systems. No dangerous groups of NPC's.
I have a lot of faith in FD and the vision for this game and I have chosen to believe that this whole problem is down to the background sim not being in place yet.
The Rares routes are a good example. Why are pirates hanging around high sec systems where the only thing they can look forward to is a few tonnes of grain? Or in deep space for no reason at all? Why are they not fighting over the traders running Evil Juice to Tanmark? There are going to be systems on that route that are low sec that are popular way points or refuelling points. Why are NPC's not devoting resources where it is profitable and pirating those systems?
Because that level of the sim is not active yet.
Look at how the markets have become more functional since release. They were broken, lets not forget that. Maybe this whole NPC thing is just broken at the moment. Maybe soon the AI will start working on a level where it starts to identify where the pirating is worth it and then the dangerous systems will emerge rather than be just put in by a dev.
I have confidence that FD are actually working towards emergent gameplay but this is taking time. Look at the amount of effort that is going into the procedural generation of systems - this is being continually improved - maybe it is the same with NPC AI.
I am not being a fanboy here - I spend my share of time moaning but it does seem like the newness, the difference of FD's approach to this game is being forgotten in this thread, or am I just being naive?

 

[DCello]

I am not being a fanboy here - I spend my share of time moaning but it does seem like the newness, the difference of FD's approach to this game is being forgotten in this thread, or am I just being naive?

Nope, you're actually one of the half dozen of old-timers I've seen around here who do not seem bitter and cynic.
I totally agree, the game is very far from finished, and things people complain apparently are on it's way to being addressed. We'll just have to wait a bit more.