Scrap or redesign shield cell modules, they are too overpowered and trivialize PvP.

lexandro · Jan 18, 2015

Quineloe said:
Were shield cells already nerfed? On my Viper, one shield cell only gives back 1 ring...

Using s1 slot? I have mines in an s2 slot and its at least 2 rings per usage.

Quineloe · Jan 18, 2015

yes it's a B1 module.

lexandro · Jan 18, 2015

Mines is A2, so that might be it.

I also find it to be a godsend now against HVT's. Had a nasty one last night were me and a 'conda HVT were in combat and I didnt have enough cells left. Cue the so called "friendly" LEO's, who then swooped in. I lost my shields trying to not hit them with weapon fire and getting shot up by the 'conda in the process.

Then to rub salt in and just to peeve me off, one of the LEO's rammed me and destroyed my ship.

As long as we have the completely crappy AI in the game atm, leave my shield cells alone. Smart AI, I have no problem with dying to them. Do not want to lose another tricked out ship due to idiotic AI behaviour though.

EAGLE 5 · Jan 18, 2015

Defacto said:
This is a bit off topic, but some texts from FD in the design document makes it sound like they have a full-scale penetration, damage and ballistics model. For example, if a projectile would penetrate the armor, it would travel on a trajectory through the ship, damaging anything it passes. How much of this is in game? I've seen multicannon shots ricochet off when hitting low angles, but I'm not sure if that is just an effect.

Is the armor values different on different parts of the ship? Does upgrading bulkheads increase armor?
Would things like internal ricochets, penetration followed by shot detonation, or modules absorbing projectiles and stopping them be a part of the simulation? I don't know...

If this is really the games dynamic then FPS mode will indeed be an insane experience that will be riddled with awesome chaotic moments. Just think about the implications.... Wow

aowqyaaw · Jan 18, 2015

EAGLE 5 said:
If this is really the games dynamic then FPS mode will indeed be an insane experience that will be riddled with awesome chaotic moments. Just think about the implications.... Wow

Well, we can't have that now can we? We'll have to have a full risk assessment. All sharp corners must be made round!

wisedude · Jan 18, 2015

Sandro Sammarco said:
Hello Commander Johnny Spaceboots!

Just watched the video you linked. Have to say and I have to say, it didn't seem to me to a complete joke (I found it rather enjoyable, and in fairness, so it seems did the players involved).

The python is by most reckonings, a beast of a ship (a little too beastly, we will be dropping it's manoeuvrability a tad). Interestingly, if the Cobra had had weapons other than missile racks on the wing mounts, the python's shields would have probably broken a few times (missiles are utterly terrible versus shields, though they are hungry for hull).

Do I think the video highlights an issue: yes. Do I think the tweaks rolling out will address it: I'm not sure. Am I prepared to make further changes if we feel the next changes don't work: yes. Do we have quite a few options: yes.

It may well be that we end up with one of the more severe solutions, but that will only happen once I'm sure we can't find more interesting compromises.

Why mess with the ship stats when the obvious problem is the shield cells?atleast that's signals I'm getting from watching the video.

CaptainKremmen · Jan 18, 2015

Kortossis said:
<snip>

oh BTW I just kited a cobra out with 18 of these dang things, gonna be looking to try them out. Sounds like fun.

Flame Suit On {chuckles}

Haha, watch out for my in-game friend flying an Asp with 40 cells.

StargazerJ · Jan 18, 2015

Sorry

You know what I've been spending too much time on these forums recently when I should have been playing the game so I'm not going to go on about shield cells anymore. I've said my piece and I'm going to wait until I see what the devs do next before continuing. I'm sure it can't be easy for them with myself and many wanting one thing and others wanting the opposite but they've done such a good job so far that I'm going to trust them to get this right in the end too, whatever they decide. Sorry if I got overly stressed about this but I'm sure the one thing we all share in common is our passion for this game so happy star hoping all, hope to see some of you in game.

Teklow82 · Jan 18, 2015

HEY i got a Idea..

Shield cells are just fine..

Have a problem with shield cells.. Try this.. Upgrade your weapons.. or wait wait wait waiiiiit.. HOLD the PHONE..

Stop worrying about the COST and LOB some missiles over..

PRO tip INCOMING...

CELLS DONT WORK IF SHIELDS ARE DOWN.. *wink*..

Throw enough damage at them fast enough.. and poof goes shields..

If the cost of killing your target out weighs the value of your target.. and your realllllly worried about your purse. well you need to rethink who your shooting at,

If you take on more then you can chew.. Well.. you deserve whats coming. weather is complete bordum and fustration while the other person slwoly trolls you in circles. or the sudden cost of your ins bill. /shug.

point is.. dont blame the extra's people buy into. be a better pilot and fly safe.

Kudach · Jan 18, 2015

Sandro Sammarco said:
Hello Commanders!

Just a quick heads up: we've been looking at the stats for shield cell banks and have made some tweaks, which should filter out in a near future update. Basically, cell capacities have been reduced, cost per cell has been increased, and the passive power draw for having a cell bank active has increased.

We're not totally convinced this is the end of tweaking shield cell banks, but we think it will be a move in the right direction.

Hope this doesn't brake game play for the larger ships

Teklow82 · Jan 18, 2015

Kudach said:
Hope this doesn't brake game play for the larger ships

I doubt it.. have a 30mw power supply on my python and i cant seems to really need to get over 20mw use.. I agree cells are cheap.. but even if cells are cut in half and cost more. I belive its comes down to timing.

aowqyaaw · Jan 18, 2015

It's going to be hard to tear them away from those who cower behind them. Expect hissy fits.

Johnny Spaceboots · Jan 18, 2015

Kudach said:
Hope this doesn't brake game play for the larger ships

Large ships already have plenty of advantages without shield cells, and did before they were even introduced. To think that people are using them as such a crutch that being unable to spam them "breaks" a ship :\
Maybe I'm spoiled because I became accustomed to having to pilot with skill before ezmode was introduced in Beta 2, so I don't have to rely on cheesy mmo health potions or something. I found my python plenty useful when I opted against outfitting it with shield cells, well worth the price.

Elios0 · Jan 18, 2015

Adept said:
They used to be much more dangerous.

The same logic that gave us shield cells turned the rather dangerous NPCs from the earlier Beta into the farmable cannon fodder we have now. I was really nervous going up against _sidewinders_ with twin railguns at one point. Those NPCs were killers. Likwise I was outflown by an NPC Cobra using FA-off and translational thrust masterfully when I was in my pimped out sidey. I was cheering all the while. Those are the sort of NPCs we need, not the farmable idiots flying around with no ahields we have now

no your are just bad
npcs where always farmable like that
shield cells are fine
the python is fine
the only change that MIGHT be ok is one cell bank only

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Teklow82 said:
HEY i got a Idea..

Shield cells are just fine..

Have a problem with shield cells.. Try this.. Upgrade your weapons.. or wait wait wait waiiiiit.. HOLD the PHONE..

Stop worrying about the COST and LOB some missiles over..

PRO tip INCOMING...

CELLS DONT WORK IF SHIELDS ARE DOWN.. *wink*..

Throw enough damage at them fast enough.. and poof goes shields..

If the cost of killing your target out weighs the value of your target.. and your realllllly worried about your purse. well you need to rethink who your shooting at,

If you take on more then you can chew.. Well.. you deserve whats coming. weather is complete bordum and fustration while the other person slwoly trolls you in circles. or the sudden cost of your ins bill. /shug.

point is.. dont blame the extra's people buy into. be a better pilot and fly safe.

SO MUCH THIS

Xanador · Jan 18, 2015

NeilF said:
Yes and no... Next time you build a ship for combat/bounty hunting, look how many internal spaces you have left, which probably are still sitting as cargo. Some players simply putting Shield Cells in these spaces too. Why? Because with two or more shield cells you can most likely out-tank (last) a player with just one shield cell.

It that a fair comment one aspect of the problem we face with shield cells (currently)?

Have you ever witnessed an NPC using a Shield Cell? A lot of the NPC I find are too dim to even buy shields!

As I said before. I also find shield cells are overpowered, so maybe nerf the charges per cell, but I like the possibility for bigger ships to carry more of them than smaller ones with just one or two "spare" internal slots. Why? Just take a look at maintanance/repair costs and also tanking capacity. Shouldn't a big ship be significantly more durable in combat if you decide to sacrifice your internal slots? I'm not into pvp, but I think you will only find billionaires in warzones playing bigger ships, it's just not worth it. It may also be a problem, when they introduce wings. Player anacondas and pythons will be the primary target for them.

Herewego · Jan 18, 2015

to be honest I have never used shield cells in this game I don't think I want too I quite like the challenge of survival and quite enjoy running away with a cracked windscreen with x amount of minutes to get to a station - I don't think they will ban shield cells but its a shame really

Quineloe · Jan 18, 2015

Herewego said:
to be honest I have never used shield cells in this game I don't think I want too I quite like the challenge of survival and quite enjoy running away with a cracked windscreen with x amount of minutes to get to a station - I don't think they will ban shield cells but its a shame really

What ship are you fighting in?

Defacto · Jan 18, 2015

Teklow82 said:
HEY i got a Idea..

Shield cells are just fine..

Have a problem with shield cells.. Try this.. Upgrade your weapons.. or wait wait wait waiiiiit.. HOLD the PHONE..

Stop worrying about the COST and LOB some missiles over..

PRO tip INCOMING...

CELLS DONT WORK IF SHIELDS ARE DOWN.. *wink*..

Throw enough damage at them fast enough.. and poof goes shields..

If the cost of killing your target out weighs the value of your target.. and your realllllly worried about your purse. well you need to rethink who your shooting at,

If you take on more then you can chew.. Well.. you deserve whats coming. weather is complete bordum and fustration while the other person slwoly trolls you in circles. or the sudden cost of your ins bill. /shug.

point is.. dont blame the extra's people buy into. be a better pilot and fly safe.

I have Beam lasers and Seekers. How do I upgrade my weapons? Is there a laser booster somewhere?
Missiles are pretty useless against Shields in my experience. You're better of saving them for those moments where you actually do get the enemy shields down and they start fleeing.

There's already videos that show why it's not as easy as throwing damage to stop shield cells.

You don't get any value out of your target because you never kill them. Well, not the players, at least...
And the sudden cost of the insurance bill was something I last saw around 20. December when I crashed into the station by mistake.

Do you think people here complain about being defeated by people who use Shield Cells?

Herewego said:
to be honest I have never used shield cells in this game I don't think I want too I quite like the challenge of survival and quite enjoy running away with a cracked windscreen with x amount of minutes to get to a station - I don't think they will ban shield cells but its a shame really

I think that it's okay for SCB's to be a strong tool the help your survive in combat, but they simply need to be taken away from the completely game-changing state they are in right now.

bassman · Jan 18, 2015

Teklow82 said:
HEY i got a Idea..

Shield cells are just fine..

Have a problem with shield cells.. Try this.. Upgrade your weapons.. or wait wait wait waiiiiit.. HOLD the PHONE..

Stop worrying about the COST and LOB some missiles over..

Yeah becase having a situation where spamming dumbfires is about the only way to take down shields on any simmilar sized or larger ship makes for such interesting and deep gameplay.

NeilF · Jan 18, 2015

Adept said:
- Shield cells, which completely broke energy management and the feeling of danger in combat

I'll swear in B1.06 you were constantly balancing energy and heat during battles. Seems it's far far less of a concern now... Can't recall the time I even looked at heat?