Scrap or redesign shield cell modules, they are too overpowered and trivialize PvP.
- Thread starter KazumaKat
- Start date
I'm still constantly balancing energy, and if anything SCBs have made that even more critical since they are vastly more effective when combined with extra SYS pips.
Heat however, is less of an issue, for a few reasons:
- In Beta 1, ships did not have A class gear, and the A class power plants we all use now have better heat efficiency.
- In Beta 1, certain high heat weapons like railguns were likely producing more heat than they do now, but since they have been nerfed in other ways, I suspect their heat was reduced to compensate.
Also, heat is actually more of an issue while silent running that it was in Beta. More more difficult to build and fly a silent running ambush fighter than it was in Beta 2.
I disagree.
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Agreed. I was militantly opposed to SCBs when they were introduced. They weren't necessary and didn't make for a better game; still aren't and don't, for the most part.
That said, they have already been heavily nerfed from their original incarnation, and they are hardly the perfect defense some people make them out to be. I couldn't really care less if SCBs were removed entirely at this point, but a lot of the complainers are just completely wrong about the implications of SCBs, and are basing their arguments around fundamentally flawed assumptions about aspects of the game they have minimal experience with.
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Suggest YOU GO AND SHOUT at FD, because they don't agree.
So you're suggesting people need to change their weapons layout, which are most likely aimed at a cross between shield and hull damaged, just to cope with shield cells? And as regards including some missiles purely to counter shield cells, that them means:-
- added cost?
- less weapons for actual use against shields/hulls?
- and if the opponent simply has counter measures?
- are missile an ideal choice for shields?
Anyway, no one is suggesting the premise of shield cells is wrong. Some folks (seemingly FD included) are simply saying they're too powerful currently and dictate the outcome too much
Personally I think shield cells should just boost up only your 3rd shield ring alone, even only temporarily too (eg: 10-15 seconds). So they can give you small tactical respite, not a complete "business as usual" over and over and over...
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Agreed!! They've bent things too far in the "wrong" direction for me. They should be a subtle tactical tool, not an uber shield fixer. Hence my suggestion:-
...shield cells should just boost up only your 3rd shield ring alone, even only temporarily too (eg: 10-15 seconds). So they can give you small tactical respite, not a complete "business as usual" over and over and over...
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Always like that? You joined the forum in september 2014, so how would you know?
Without any epeen-measuring, it you want a reference to "me just being bad" we can go have a dance with stock sideys. It's a pretty good test of piloting skill. Fixed pulses, stock components and no shield cells
Without any epeen-measuring, it you want a reference to "me just being bad" we can go have a dance with stock sideys. It's a pretty good test of piloting skill. Fixed pulses, stock components and no shield cells
I feel somebody at Frontier got cold feet with the launch coming closer. It seems they worried about the game being too challenging, and lowered the difficulty, and dumbed down the mechanics. The shield potions are a basic MMO troupe, and farmable NPCs are as well. I suspect weapon atteibutes and grades were removed in an attempt to cut down complexity (and if I was in charge, I would straight up fire the person responsible for that).
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To your first point, I agree 100%. The module is completely defensive in Nature, but it does give MASSIVE surviveability, I'll admit to that.
To your second point, I know you said the plan is already to decrease ammunition (which I agree with) and to increase cost (the player in me groans because I use Cells a lot, the armchair game dev in me understands), but I'd just like to throw in my two cents on the "misuse" and "timing" mechanics being put more into play. E
, for me, focuses on the minute to minute gameplay, and it makes sense that hitting a Cell too early would overcharge and damage your shields. A slightly slower spool up time may add even more finess. Someone who's slamming down shields so fast that someone can't react won't have to worry about their shield cells, but use that cell too early, and you just handed them the advantage in the fight. If, say, overcharging your shield cell caused the over 100% to turn into heat energy (that energy has to go somewhere, right?) That's raw hull and module damage you just inflicted on yourself. Make it a high enough ratio (say, 25-30% heat damage for every X number of points over max shield health) and they may be hurting pretty bad.I always find these nuanced solutions much more fun that just turning it into a gold sink. But, of course, I'm telling you nothing you haven't already heard/thought of. It's almost like you do this for a living or something... Weird...
Wait... So people are difficult to kill and you think that NOT changing your loadout to make that easier is a good course of action?
No, I'm suggesting following the advice that CMDRs need change one one/more of their weapons to load missiles (just to counter shields cells), is not a good course of action...
And if people are "difficult to kill" simply due to one device in particular, which everyone then feels they have no choice but to also follow suit with - simply to be equally tank'able - this shows IMHO said device is probably too powerful and rather than offering a tool, has instead becomes an unbalanced defacto standard as players have little choice but to own one to simply keep "competitive". And then if it gets even more daft where players start having two to out-tank players with one unit?
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I almost never use missiles, because dumbfires are total crap against anyone paying attention and not in a ponderous ship, while homing missiles are too vulnerable to PDTs, and ECM to be worth while.
Any fighter class ship can lose it's shield, even SCB bolstered ones, to close range laser fire, from a similar vessel, before it has time to pop a second one...unless it's got four pips in shields. I suspect that only the people that insist on using gimbaled multi-cannons for everything have major issues with SCBs on ships classed similarly to their own.
and Again you only talk about PVP there ar o lot Players who dont want to do PVP
Indeed! But there Shield Cells are even more out of balance IMHO.
The main complaint I saw before shield cells were introduced was the 4 cannon viper build one shoting everything.
Cannons were hit hard with the nerf bat, shield cells were introduced around the same time.
All shield cells do is increase the chances of a player using a high alpha strike weapon load. This will probably make combat quicker, and it makes many weapons obsolete.
I am tempted to agree with you. I never had a problem stripping shields from another ship with an all-fixed-beam loadout on my Asp. They went down fast and stayed down. It just took longer to roast the hull than projectiles or missiles. I was amused a few times to see my target pop chaff and imagined the "darn it.." coming from the other cockpit when my weapons stayed on target but my own chaff cloud sent their gimballed weapons crazy.
On the other hand, their all-projectile loadout made MY SCB quite useful.
It means if you're loaded for PVE instead of PVP, and a PVPer catches you, you likely won't have enough high alpha weapons like railguns etc, and won't have as many shield cells, if any since PVE is easy even without them.
Thus the PVP holds practically an insurmountable advantage over you, assuming average skill levels.
FWIW I agree with Brumster. I see nothing wrong with Shield cells. I don't see them as a 'god ship device'. When a bigger ship buys many of them, it costs them money and they need to make compromises in other equipment. I would prefer it if it stayed the way it is. I'm a bounty hunter and , yes, it can be tough to fight against some python who has fitted 10 shield cells, but that's the way it is.
It's not 'fair' whatever 'fair' means, in the same way that my RL car can't out accelerate or out handle a Ferrari 575 M- but then, they paid more for their vehicle.
From Alpha, to Beta to Gamma, I've seen the consciencious progression of the combat tactics and right now shields barely last. This isn't so fair to traders and explorers who get ambushed (and then told to stop whining).
I will be dissppointed if shield cells are made less potent
It's not 'fair' whatever 'fair' means, in the same way that my RL car can't out accelerate or out handle a Ferrari 575 M- but then, they paid more for their vehicle.
From Alpha, to Beta to Gamma, I've seen the consciencious progression of the combat tactics and right now shields barely last. This isn't so fair to traders and explorers who get ambushed (and then told to stop whining).
I will be dissppointed if shield cells are made less potent
aowqyaaw
Banned
Where do people come up with these analogies??? A python doesn't come with shield cells, and if it can't handle itself out the box against a cobra, then it's underpowered or overpriced. A better approach to addressing this imbalance would either be to make them cheaper, or buff their stats.
Shield cells are nothing more than security blankets.
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Obvious statement is bloody obvious. Player equipped specifically for killing other players is going to win against someone who isn't...