This happens to me almost everytime.
Also sometimes I submit, the game registers that I'm submitting but I get stuck in the interdiction state and can't leave it. The only way to get out of those is to end task the game.
Interdiction Dodgers
- Thread starter Snakebite
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This happens to me almost everytime.
Also sometimes I submit, the game registers that I'm submitting but I get stuck in the interdiction state and can't leave it. The only way to get out of those is to end task the game.
This I like, the punishment should be commensurate with the crime, should it not? Perhaps an unclaimable, but payable only bounty based off of the losses of the commander? Otherwise I could see that being abused, killing a commander for 10 mil, then a buddy killing them to get that 10 mil. Perhaps 10% or 100k whichever is greater for the bounty?
Hello Commander Robert Maynard!
First, as a reminder to everyone - there's no iron guarantee or ETA on any of the stuff we discuss here, unless we absolutely state as much. Now, caveat duly issued:
As it happens, we've recently been discussing a "Reboot and Jury Rig" option that would allow you to bring dead systems back online with some minimal health (say a couple of percent) by "eating" an equivalent (or probably double amount) from other systems. This would allow you to come back from being crippled, but not save you from A) destruction at the hands of someone who really wanted you dead and B) further issues and malfunctions (but we think this could be a pretty cool aspect, actually).
Hello Commander Snake Man!
A couple of points: running without shields is incredibly dangerous. If you get caught out and drawn into combat, you've kind of been asking for it. The Type 9 is a big enough ship that, outfitted with the correct modules, can cause some amount of trouble to aggressors whilst waiting for the long frame shift cool down to expire.
Hello Commander elaverick!
Hahahahahahaha! Umm, not intentional...
Hello Commander NeilF!
Pirates, in general, can be persuaded to stop attacking you if you drop cargo (even if you have traded shots with them). Of course, the more powerful the pirate ship, the more cargo they need to sate their greed.
The premise of legacy fines is not to keep a bounty active, but to turn it into a everlasting fine if someone kills you to collect it (in part to stop exploits between players to make money killing each other in starter ships).
Hello Commanders!
A couple more points:
Having your ship be controlled by some form of AI when you log is not straightforward (otherwise we would have done this already!
)
There's an interesting sentiment that keeps cropping up: if you make it harder to escape from aggressors, then I'll be forced back into solo. I'd like to ask, is this a player-only issue, or would it include NPCs. Because the idea we've always had for trading is that being attacked is the core game play risk.
In fact, I'd posit that one of the reasons (not the only one, obviously) trading is so much more profitable is because there's little risk of losing your ship or taking much damage, or losing cargo (feel free to disabuse me of this notion if you have evidence to the contrary!)
Now I certainly don't want to see traders getting slaughtered like lambs in an eternal spring, but I want to make it clear that being attacked/placed in significant danger has always been part of our plans for the trader role.
First, as a reminder to everyone - there's no iron guarantee or ETA on any of the stuff we discuss here, unless we absolutely state as much. Now, caveat duly issued:
As it happens, we've recently been discussing a "Reboot and Jury Rig" option that would allow you to bring dead systems back online with some minimal health (say a couple of percent) by "eating" an equivalent (or probably double amount) from other systems. This would allow you to come back from being crippled, but not save you from A) destruction at the hands of someone who really wanted you dead and B) further issues and malfunctions (but we think this could be a pretty cool aspect, actually).
Hello Commander Snake Man!
A couple of points: running without shields is incredibly dangerous. If you get caught out and drawn into combat, you've kind of been asking for it. The Type 9 is a big enough ship that, outfitted with the correct modules, can cause some amount of trouble to aggressors whilst waiting for the long frame shift cool down to expire.
Hello Commander elaverick!
Hahahahahahaha! Umm, not intentional...
Hello Commander NeilF!
Pirates, in general, can be persuaded to stop attacking you if you drop cargo (even if you have traded shots with them). Of course, the more powerful the pirate ship, the more cargo they need to sate their greed.
The premise of legacy fines is not to keep a bounty active, but to turn it into a everlasting fine if someone kills you to collect it (in part to stop exploits between players to make money killing each other in starter ships).
Hello Commanders!
A couple more points:
Having your ship be controlled by some form of AI when you log is not straightforward (otherwise we would have done this already!
)There's an interesting sentiment that keeps cropping up: if you make it harder to escape from aggressors, then I'll be forced back into solo. I'd like to ask, is this a player-only issue, or would it include NPCs. Because the idea we've always had for trading is that being attacked is the core game play risk.
In fact, I'd posit that one of the reasons (not the only one, obviously) trading is so much more profitable is because there's little risk of losing your ship or taking much damage, or losing cargo (feel free to disabuse me of this notion if you have evidence to the contrary!)
Now I certainly don't want to see traders getting slaughtered like lambs in an eternal spring, but I want to make it clear that being attacked/placed in significant danger has always been part of our plans for the trader role.
Problem is... Individual 1 spawns, and goes and kills. Gets big bounty. Let's player 2 kill him. Repeat...
Personally think murder should result in a bounty that cannot be paid off for X in-game hours. And this time does not reduce while docked
Maybe also announce the murder to any other CMDRs in the system, and even put up a location on your navigation tab?
I think you're right. High bounties get exploited in every PvP game. What is needed are serious consequences that lead to more good game-play. A 'real' pirate, (as opposed to the Lulz types) would relish playing the hunted criminal, denied a safe haven in a ship that's slowly falling apart because anarchy ports lack high class modules. While all the time 'sightings' of them are posted on Galnet.
And allow them to pay a massive, massive bribe to clear their name.
Now that's the kind of pirate you can run up a gallows and salute. The Drive-By Sunday Psychopaths, not so much.
Make piracy a real career that requires real dedication.
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No, please. Make the NPC's more challenging. We'll cope. It's players who are unpredictable and in enough cases to spoil things, pointlessly psychopathic killers.
Thankyou for your comments.
At present the problem is that, for the interdictee, there is little way to evade interdiction. The interdiction module is a consequence free module. By removing the last option for traders to escape the interdictor, the result will be to compel traders to move into PvE groups or go into Solo, I do not think that this is the result that the PvP players, or traders would truly seek.
The whole mechanism for interdictions needs a thorough overhaul, along with the consequences of crime. The interdiction mechanism leaves no place for the victim to hide, leaves no sense of anxiety for the person being interdicted, and no real risk for the interdictor. Some suggestions therefore.
Firstly, limit the range of the interdiction module to scan for targets in supercruise, similarly to the normal scanner. Ships outside the range cannot be seen, other than as the glowing points of light seen through the cockpit window. Without the module installed ships cannot see other ships in supercruise. Add a module, a supercruise scanner to allow tracking without the interdiction module for bounty hunters or traders with greater range. Add an ammunition requirement for the interdiction module. After the 4th or 5th interdiction by the same player, the interdictee is probably going to be somewhat ticked off and will probably decide to place the offending commander on their ignore list or leave the game. I am sure this is not a desired outcome in your eyes. Finally, for interdictions,remove the mini-game and go back to the sudden, jarring mechanism, that meant you would have no idea what you were about to meet. Multiple pirates, an authority ship, or someone who wants to communicate or trade.
Secondly, dealing with criminality. Introduce a persistent criminal record. I would suggest a points system, along side the bounty. The criminal player can pay off the bounty or fine, but after accruing sufficient points in a system they will be unable to dock except at unsanctioned outposts, receiving the docking denied warning. Further accrued points would result in the docking injunction extending to all systems under the major factions jurisdiction except independent and anarchy systems/stations. This would also deal with the station campers attacking ships inside the station and insta-docking to evade destruction. The points would be expunged over a period of time, if the player refrained from criminal behaviour.
Lastly, whilst I have your attention, and it is off-topic I am afraid, can Silent-Running vs Stealth through power management be looked at again. So many opportunities for emergent and subtle game play were discarded because of this decision. Ambush play in the asteroid belts, including cooperative assassination missions where your involvement must not be discovered. Photo-reconnaissance missions where the payout could be dependent on how close you could sneak up to the target. Even dealing with miscreants camping the station entrance from outside the no-fire zone by slipping behind them and unleashing righteous justice via railgun, into their thrusters and then shoving them into the no-fire zone for the station to obliterate them.
Thanks anyway.
The draw to Solo, or stopping trading, is versus players only yes. There is absolutely zero risk for me to go around in a combat ship, I could lose that 1000 times and be largely unaffected. I lose my trading ship once, Im set back two, maybe three days of playtime.
I dont get pirated, so I most assuredly have a skewed fringe view of this issue, Ive never once been spoken too, save once, 'I am executing you for crimes against humanity'. Just interdicted, and destroyed mostly. If the FSD cooldown is longer than the time to kill, I will never again escape, not even once. As it currently stands, I can escape, sometimes, with the two proposed changes, that will make it impossible for at least this one player.
Trading is the riskiest thing for me to do, I lose the most money in trading, due to players, and the least when I go looking for combat, and also trading takes me the longest time in real hours to recover my losses. It isn't riskless, please do not believe that at all. Is it easy? Yes I can agree with that, however for me at least, it is assuredly the most dangerous thing I can do, because I can easily escape in my cobra or viper, and I can easily be destroyed in my trading ship.
I think, if CMDRs who were trading felt a bit more assured that if they were interdicted that they would not simply be murdered by "griefer" CMDRs or unpredictable NPCs, then they'd also be more willing to play online instead of solo. Hence my suggestions at trying to make Traders feel a little "safer" in a universe of pirates (human and NPC) - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101696
I know if as a trader I knew I stood a fair chance of paying a pirate his dues/tax I'd do so. But if I kept simply getting blown apart by "supposed pirate CMDRs" I'd duck into Solo <--- This clearly breaks the ideal game mechanic of us all playing togethor online.
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The first is an obvious problem.
The second can be fixed by making dumbfire missles have a cooldown.
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Yes you can.
I would go to solo, but this is mostly a player only issue. Players abuse tactics to grief players, such as dumbfire spam / ramming / blowing you up anyways after you drop cargo. If NPCs got tougher when being interdicted I would welcome the added difficulty.
If trader dies:
The trader suffers anywhere from 5-9 million insurance, up to 6.6 million cargo (palladium), and has to make it all back up over the course of hours. Even at a perfect 2000 per ton per round trip 500 cargo Type 9 without refuel making 6 trips per hour would take 5-6 HOURS to recover. That's without being pirated / interdicted as well.
If Pirate dies during or after pirating:
The pirate laughs at his measly 100k viper refit and makes it back in less than an hour. He's back to having his fun in no time.
True, but the main reason is exponential growth of cargo holds and profit per ton, vs bounty hunting capped at 200k missions / nav beacons / RES. Currently the best way to make bounty hunting credits is to glitch RES with save and exit until you get all anaconda pirates.
Where's the fun in bounty hunting if it's more risky and less profitable than trading which is less risky and many times more profitable?
Bounty hunting plateaus to a measly profit per hour. Trading rises and rises with each ship that has larger holds, until it is absolutely the top earner per hour. I make 6-8 million per hour. I dare a bounty hunter to come close.
I think traders should play where they want to play. Trading should be more dangerous, and some of that danger should come from NPCs you can't hide from by moving to solo. Sadly, NPCs are laughable at the moment, but I have little doubt they'll be pushed up a few IQ points soon.
The problem is not Player Pirates, or NPC Pirates the problem is the killer for LULZ.
The way it is one can not tell from the interdiction what it will be.
Freighters even if fittet with good shields are fish in an barrel for rather cheap ships fittet with dumb fire.
The whole idea Frontier had with the freighters is novel but it takes not into account that there are a lot of people who make it there hobby to troll.
(Beside from the rather funny idea that there are freighters in an universe that is supposed to be cut throat and crawling with criminals and whatnot who have no realistic chance to survive an encounter with someone who is out to blow them up)
In any instance where i risk that unfiltered human players are around (aka open) I would fly an pure freighter only if i am in the mood to blow a few million credits to kingdom come.
End of story.
It has already been stated, but that is part of the experience. You are bound to meet a few of those personalities during your in-game time. Not everyone will be having the whole "Would you like to come over for tea" routine when you meet.
Leanr to equip defenses and pay your cargo insurance. And just flying around without shields/any form of defense is basically inviting people to kill you. The arrogance of such people, who clicked the wrong button on the Play mode selection screen is what kills them. Not the killers.
Regarding the combat logging, the only thing that needs to be done, and perhaps the only one to be deemed "Fair" by all(as it is already in-game, just not working properly), is to repair the Anti-logging timer so that any disconnections, regardless of the method - be it killing the process or clicking on the respective button, is sanctioned the same way - by providing ship persistence in space throughout the duration of the timer from the moment of clicking the button/connection interruption(extremely easy to detect server-side). Boosting the timer to, say, 45 seconds should be enough too.
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Thanks for popping in to let us all know you guys are keeping a close eye on us!
Thanks especially for the line I quote above.
For this particular old ED'er, it is very pleasing to see confirmation such as this. Much spoken in the forums worries me that ED will not be what I always thought it would be, with so many folks declaring their intent to play Solo only.
I certainly do not want to see Traders feasted upon, griefed and generally driven away from Open. I look forward to ever-more cooperative means of Multi-Player interaction; Wings, Escorts, Breakdown recovery trucks, fleets of friendly Commanders, chasing off the Pirate, or even Pirates. Wagon Trains limping into Dock after suffering damage and losses to well organised Pirate gangs. You name it.
I simply shiver when folks state that they Play Solo, because there's no benefit to Trading in Open. This game could be so EPIC, but everyone needs to work together to make it really Sing.
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Is very easy to make it umpossible to abuse logofski tactics. But you need to stop sugar coating players and trying to please everybody then. If this means someone eventually someone will lose a ship to a legit disconnect, ohwell tough luck, hopefully you are not stupid and have enough to cover the ship with the insurance.
This should ofc include NPC's not only player actions, about time all these space trucker grinders feel the 'Dangerous' in the 'Elite: Dangerous' (or is it 'Elite: Carebear'?). Then people in private groups and solo should have zero effect in the universe (but be influenced by people in open) and the game will be in a decent place regarding risk/reward and balance.
This should ofc include NPC's not only player actions, about time all these space trucker grinders feel the 'Dangerous' in the 'Elite: Dangerous' (or is it 'Elite: Carebear'?). Then people in private groups and solo should have zero effect in the universe (but be influenced by people in open) and the game will be in a decent place regarding risk/reward and balance.
Hello Commander tagos!
I just want to confirm something. You say that it's impossible to escape interdiction - could you clarify? Interdiction is more or less skill-based, with both pilots having a very similar chance. There are differences between ships, but they tend to counter each other out in different ways. If something is occurring that's messing this up, it's likely a bug that can be looked at.
And to carry on with this theme: if you could escape an interdiction you would have, at a minimum, forty seconds of grace period whilst your aggressor is waiting in normal space for their FSD to cool down (not to mention that they will have suffered some damage that you would have avoided). Would that not be enough of an advantage?
I just want to confirm something. You say that it's impossible to escape interdiction - could you clarify? Interdiction is more or less skill-based, with both pilots having a very similar chance. There are differences between ships, but they tend to counter each other out in different ways. If something is occurring that's messing this up, it's likely a bug that can be looked at.
And to carry on with this theme: if you could escape an interdiction you would have, at a minimum, forty seconds of grace period whilst your aggressor is waiting in normal space for their FSD to cool down (not to mention that they will have suffered some damage that you would have avoided). Would that not be enough of an advantage?
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As the good lady once said:
I would imagine that not everyone is just after making as much money as they can. Perhaps the personality types who are trading at those levels are.
Elite is a game where you don't need loads of in-game money but it seems that is the urge for so many players.
Yes, killers for the lulz make it more than difficult for me to trade. I would gladly drop some cargo to keep from constantly being destroyed, unfortunately I have yet for anyone to even ask.
Also yes, I have very little chance of survival against a viper, and none where an asp or larger would be concerned in my trading ship. Which really leads me to believe sometimes that I am the only person in open not having any fun.
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