That post above linked from Sandro at least makes it look like they are trying to come up with ways to lessen the currently lop-sided consequences of the outcome for the trader and make more of a target of the pirate.
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That post above linked from Sandro at least makes it look like they are trying to come up with ways to lessen the currently lop-sided consequences of the outcome for the trader and make more of a target of the pirate.
I disagree. The easiest and most effective solution would simply be to impose some serious and actual consequenses to attacking clean players. Let me list what I mean by serious consequenses:
- Higher fines. Much MUCH higher fines. 6K-9K for 1st degree space murder is absolutely ridiculous. It should 10 times as high at least. Or 50 times as high.
- Much higher bounties, same issue as with fines.
- NPC bounty hunter groups of elite rank (and with better AI) should be able to often intercept players with higher bounties. Higher the bounty the harder and more numerous the bounty hunters.
I believe that the above would be adequate to dissuade all but the most die hard pirate from just attacking clean newbies; but I guess FD can come up with several other interesting consequences. Game lacks pvp consequence so much it hurts.
Lol @ FD.
"We want to to encourage player co-operation that's why you can't even play with your friends, the chat does not work and there will be no LOCAL CHAT whatsover."
Like children in the fog.
"We want to to encourage player co-operation that's why you can't even play with your friends, the chat does not work and there will be no LOCAL CHAT whatsover."
Like children in the fog.
I hate to ask - but do you actually read what you type? If you do, do you stop to consider whether you're helping your own case?
As I actually have little idea what you're on about, what with the random series of caps and all, i'll just have to give it my best shot.
Yes, in a Hauler, if the pilot is good enough and the ship is cleverly configured and the opponent not very good. Yes, in a Hauler.
That you think this is in some way a laughable position just shows that you actually cannot understand that there are different viewpoints and 'different' does not mean 'wrong'.
Perhaps we could do something so that it isn't trivial to just dock and pay off your bounties and suddenly be 100% squeaky clean?
What if we allowed players to place bounties on others, and required them to either pay off that player (who could choose to not accept it, or request a premium to pay it off) and not just allow them to dock and clean it trivially.
That way if you rustle the jimmies of a big enough trader, or many little traders, you make yourself a bigger and bigger target for other PVPers. It may even convince some traders to wander around in open play a bit more, since they'd actually have something they can do to/with other players that isn't shootybangbangs
What if we allowed players to place bounties on others, and required them to either pay off that player (who could choose to not accept it, or request a premium to pay it off) and not just allow them to dock and clean it trivially.
That way if you rustle the jimmies of a big enough trader, or many little traders, you make yourself a bigger and bigger target for other PVPers. It may even convince some traders to wander around in open play a bit more, since they'd actually have something they can do to/with other players that isn't shootybangbangs
Yes. I think Frontier understand the issues. I hope they come up with good things.
Think of it this way. If you where a bounty hunter and you fly in a system and catch a wanted player, how would you feel if after targeting him you get a message that says "this player has opted out of PvP".
Because that's essentially what traders playing in Open are asking for .. .they don't want to PvP because its not a fair fight, well if they get that, as a pirate I should be able to choose when I PvP and don't PvP and frankly facing an Elite player... I choose to opt out.
Lol @ FD.
"We want to to encourage player co-operation that's why you can't even play with your friends, the chat does not work and there will be no LOCAL CHAT whatsover."
Like children in the fog.
They are looking at improvements to chat.
Absolutes? You swing so wildly. Do you have any anchor at all?
When talking about Open/Group/Solo switching you talk about balance and fairness
When talking about Combat vs Trader fair is not an option
When talking about coming across a tooled up BH, it's not fair
All you are doing is shouting at the sky because the sun is not shining. You've made no coherent argument and you bait and switch more times than a fly fisherman...
You want a game where you can go out and just pew pew other players to fulfil your own lusts without consequence. You don't want the challenge. And you don't want other players to play how they want it, because everyone exists to be your target... except when they're bigger than you, and then it's not fair.
Bro... It's called bullying... They're coming for you. Hold on.
Great idea, I wholly support it. EVE gives exactly this opportunity so place bounties on players and it works very very well. It would be great if several small traders could pool together a large bounty, and that the game actually support establishing such a pool for a 'shared' bounty.
That's not what's being said at all. I'm sorry, but debating only works if all participants make a good faith attempt to both understand, represent and address the arguments of their opponents.
What you are doing is straw-manning.
Ah, I think he understands now!!!
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The shame being that if you have committed to PVP and have bounties on your head, you are stuck with the consequences and must remain in open until you have cleared your insignificant fines.
Can't have cake and eat it. Nice one FDev.
I got pirated by a real person the other night. And there was me thinking all this talk of 'griefers' was a myth. Any way, I wouldn't say I was 'griefed', he did send me messages saying stop or die a couple of times, and well, firstly I haven't bothered to even learn the control keys for comms as I've never needed them, and secondly I stop for no man (or woman)
Flying my T6 I wasn't going to bother putting up a fight, tried to run and predictably got blown up and lost a days worth of progress in cargo. Hopefully he didn't benefit from any of my canisters.
Never thought I'd say it, but I'm going to be in Solo mode from now on. Not sure why I was ever in open play, really, other than a vague idea that it's 'better'. I wasn't intending to be cannon fodder for those that find it an enjoyable play style to attack other players with overwhelming firepower. I'll be back in Open for consensual PVP when I'm in a combat ship, but blowing up unarmed civilians won't be my gig.
One less player in Open... Another unsuccessful Pirate fails to see that PKing is going to reduce the field.
Open mode is poorer for it.
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Not sure why you posted this long speil on traders in combat but anyway our long quote does nothing to give lie to my stating that PvP is discouraged in ED. I think you should know this quote from DB by now
"Most of the ships you encounter will be AIs - and in many cases you will kill them - which is why we want the majority to be AIs. Generally speaking we expect players, even beginners, to be more of a challenge than an AI ship, and something that players will tend not to attack, but more cooperate with, and we are designing the bounty system (and others) to discourage PvP and encourage player cooperation."
Your long quote does nothing to give lie to my stating that PvP is discouraged in ED.
Im afraid it does.
Firstly, that 'speil' if you actually read it, is about interdiction, combat in general, and the balance between traders and combat ships. So you are quite clearly wrong, maybe you didn't read it all. By the way its from the game lead designer. Its also about future concepts for features. Nice deflection try though, saying its just about traders in combat. Read it again.
Secondly, what you actually said is that pvp is actively discouraged. This is also wrong. Its not actively discouraged or encouraged. There are procedural features in the game, that are designed to make pvp have negative affects. Bounties and the like. We all know they aren't sufficient right now, but nevertheless its simply a system thats in place, not active discouragement. Its clear, especially from the dev post i linked, that pvp is quite happily embraced by the devs as another aspect of the game as we move forward.
Not sure where you got your quote from either, looks dubious, and/or very old.
EDIT: To clarify on the post i linked, it was about pvp between traders and combat commanders, not NPC's. Cheers.
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http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDanger...ry_of_the_register_webchat_with_david_braben/
Seven months ago. Not long ago. Still bathing in Egypt?
Im afraid it does.
Firstly, that 'speil' if you actually read it, is about interdiction, combat in general, and the balance between traders and combat ships. So you are quite clearly wrong, maybe you didn't read it all. By the way its from the game lead designer. Its also about future concepts for features. Nice deflection try though, saying its just about traders in combat. Read it again.
Secondly, what you actually said is that pvp is actively discouraged. This is also wrong. Its not actively discouraged or encouraged. There are procedural features in the game, that are designed to make pvp have negative affects. Bounties and the like. We all know they aren't sufficient right now, but nevertheless its simply a system thats in place, not active discouragement. Its clear, especially from the dev post i linked, that pvp is quite happily embraced by the devs as another aspect of the game as we move forward.
Not sure where you got your quote from either, looks dubious, and/or very old.
David Braben has actuallly said that - you know words from his actual mouth that I've seen both in person and on video. He also talked about setting up a griefer "hell" if needed where griefers get instanced together away from the other players.
Of course what defines griefing in the context of this game can only be defined by FD and I'm not aware that they have exactly..
Cool story bro. I'll have a little bit of whatever it is that you're smoking.
So he tried to run, after the commander pirate asked him to "stop or die". Thereby playing his role as a pirate, which is what he chose to play in game? I don't see the problem.
Hadn't bothered to learn the controls for comms before playing open. Brilliant. So bad preparation also. Key to not being interdicted and killed is 90% preparation and situational awareness. Not sure where exactly 'not knowing the keys for comms because never needed it before' would fit into that.
Seem pretty clear to me. The guy obviously has trouble understanding danger. Solo will welcome him with open arms.
And it has been. I got fairly bored of linking it dozens.. and dozens... of time because those who'd benefit most from reading it don't want to acknowledge it when it fails to label random player killing as outright wrong. Best of all they just acknowledge the sentence or part of a sentence that backs up their belief that nothig that is in anyway detrimental to their trade run will be allowed in Open. Anyway. That statement by DB isn't the be all and end all of the 'PvP' stance FD have. It's a single soundbyte without clarification or granularity. The more specific stance FD have is rather nifty imo and seeks to create an environment of freedom and consequence where all roles from murdering pirate to non combative trader are accepted.
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"Works very well" is...not exactly the way I would describe Eve's bounty system, either old or new. The old system was basically a piggybank for the bad guys, they'd just use an alt to pop themselves and claim the winnings.
The new "10 % payout" system is basically used the same way. Nobody actually goes "bounty hunting", because anyone with shoot on sight standings knows better than to fly an expensive ship. 10% of a 1milISK destroyer is nothing. If you know you're going down, you get a buddy/alt to pop a few shots at you, to recover 10% of your ship loss.
It's one of the more glaring failures overall of a bounty system, regardless of the game. If I get a big enough bounty in Elite, I can just hook up with a friend, get an el-cheapo sidewinder, and let him pop me and claim the winnings. Anything you do to counter that will also counter the ability of legit bounty hunters to earn a living.
I've considered setting up a goods-based third party bounty system, using friends groups and such to make claims (and check them for shenanigans). Problem is, that's a lot of :effort:, and I have no clue what direction Frontier may be taking with the current bounty systems.
That's the problem with trying to quote devs outside of context. Random dude hears "We're going to deal with griefers", assigns their own definition of "griefer", then assumes Frontier is going to make said "griefplay" go away.
I seem to recall the same dude saying something along the lines of "Not only do we want bad guys like pirates, murderers and psychopaths in the game, we're also going to take steps to ensure such gameplay is actively supported".
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