Scrap or redesign shield cell modules, they are too overpowered and trivialize PvP.

[CaptainKremmen]

Hear that snapping noise? That is my patience.


If i bust my ass and train 24/7 ten years streetfighting and I am the guy who beats up every other guy at it i still not expect to bead an guy who inherits ten billion dollars and wedges his fat lazy ass into an abrams tank.
<snip>

Hi Darian,

My problem with Shield Cells was that they made me the guy in the M1 Abrams.

To (over)use the analogy, as I drove from A to B doing whatever, I was attacked by tough-talking dudes on foot, who tried to rob or kill me by beating their fists against my armour.

If I went to a known troublespot and had three such characters attack me, I just flattened the first one while ignoring the other two. I then flattened the second, and finally the third.

And on I rolled.


If I met the biggest baddest bodybuilder on the planet, I drove over him.

And on I rolled.


To me, with such low risk to my own good health, this was singularly unchallenging and dull.


Sure, I could come across someone in another tank who wanted to fight me.

Would that be a challenge?

Well, not if I'd quit by then due to the complete lack of challenge the rest of the time, no.



Yes, I guess I could spend ALL my time just looking for other tanks to fight, to prove who is the best. And only "grind" in between to get a better tank.

But... if I wanted to do that, I'd go back to World of Tanks!

 

[darshu]

Hi Darian,

My problem with Shield Cells was that they made me the guy in the M1 Abrams.

To (over)use the analogy, as I drove from A to B doing whatever, I was attacked by tough-talking dudes on foot, who tried to rob or kill me by beating their fists against my armour.

If I went to a known troublespot and had three such characters attack me, I just flattened the first one while ignoring the other two. I then flattened the second, and finally the third.

And on I rolled.


If I met the biggest baddest bodybuilder on the planet, I drove over him.

And on I rolled.


To me, with such low risk to my own good health, this was singularly unchallenging and dull.


Sure, I could come across someone in another tank who wanted to fight me.

Would that be a challenge?

Well, not if I'd quit by then due to the complete lack of challenge the rest of the time, no.



Yes, I guess I could spend ALL my time just looking for other tanks to fight, to prove who is the best. And only "grind" in between to get a better tank.

But... if I wanted to do that, I'd go back to World of Tanks!

Your "Problem" doesn't sound like a problem at all. Have you tried not using shield cells? You stated you are in a unique situation and can not find a challenge that is as uniquely endowed as you. Seems like a easy fix.

 

[Johnny Spaceboots]

Your "Problem" doesn't sound like a problem at all. Have you tried not using shield cells? You stated you are in a unique situation and can not find a challenge that is as uniquely endowed as you. Seems like a easy fix.

Why should players have to intentionally gimp themselves when a single module removes all challenge from the game?

 

[darshu]

Why should players have to intentionally gimp themselves when a single module removes all challenge from the game?

I never said players. Why should he ? Because in HIS scenario he is torturing himself? he has no need to do something yet he does it anyway. Explain to me how a module that has a CHANCE at extending combat past the "I shot you first so i win" play style you seem to want removes a challenge?

 

[Johnny Spaceboots]

I never said players. Why should he ? Because in HIS scenario he is torturing himself? he has no need to do something yet he does it anyway. Explain to me how a module that has a CHANCE at extending combat past the "I shot you first so i win" play style you seem to want removes a challenge?

If you think he's the only one that finds that shield cells have removed all challenge from the game, you'd have to be kidding yourself. "Just don't use it" is no excuse for an unbalanced mechanic. Your "i shot you first so I win" hyperbole is also ridiculous, Elite was never like that before the introduction of shield cells and TTK was PLENTY long enough without them. Besides, your insistence that we should all just spam dumbfire rockets is pretty much the definition of "i shot you first so I win" considering that for most ships, apart from the python, you can instagib if you shoot first. So really, shield cells just encourage instagib loadouts.

Used to be that combat was extended further by smart piloting and maneuvering instead of "press x to not die."

 

[darshu]

If you think he's the only one that finds that shield cells have removed all challenge from the game, you'd have to be kidding yourself. "Just don't use it" is no excuse for an unbalanced mechanic. Your "i shot you first so I win" hyperbole is also ridiculous, Elite was never like that before the introduction of shield cells and TTK was PLENTY long enough without them. Besides, your insistence that we should all just spam dumbfire rockets is pretty much the definition of "i shot you first so I win" considering that for most ships, apart from the python, you can instagib if you shoot first. So really, shield cells just encourage instagib loadouts.

Used to be that combat was extended further by smart piloting and maneuvering instead of "press x to not die."

Wow so when i said HIS scenario you just ignore that and ran with it in a way that supports your argument...nice. "your insistence that we should all just spam dumbfire rockets" I insist no such thing. I pointed out that a python that uses shield cells can be killed in seconds with them. Shield cells the thing you claimed made them "god-tier invincible" thus being immune to a instagib. (Which is false) encourages a playstyle that is ineffective against it?. "instagib" loadouts encourage instagib loadouts.

 

[Tenshi]

Shield cells are being rebalanced so can this argument now stop?

You all got your wish for a nerf on them, I am now just waiting on the tears from you all when you can not kill those elite NPC anaconda pirate lords solo in a viper anymore.

 

[bassman]

Shield cells are being rebalanced so can this argument now stop?

You all got your wish for a nerf on them, I am now just waiting on the tears from you all when you can not kill those elite NPC anaconda pirate lords solo in a viper anymore.

Thanks for that constructive comment.

 

[CloneWarrior85]

I would love to read these 70, but the last 2 are just amassing.

You guys, please do keep up, really enjoying reading this, and I'm sure FD is too.

Mind me asking, how many of you actually pvp'ed for a good while?

 

[bassman]

Did i say WIN?
I said it is realistic that at some point you can not kill ship A with ship B

An Viper can fly circles around an anaconda and DOGDE its most powerfull weapon.
As much as an grunt can hide and sneak around an battle tank all day.

If i bring very speczialised weapons with me i even have the chance to take it out at high personal risk.

But if each ship in the game has to be able to take out every other ship in an dogfight (exept traders, cant allow the filthy traders to defend themself) then bloody well make them all cost the same and have the same stats (exept the traders, anyone who plays an trader deserves to die and be ressurected and then beat until dead again)

And submarines come not cheap and take a crew of highly trained specialists to run.

Your argument is somewhat contradictory, you give a real life example in which cost and tactical advantage dont correlate and yet thats what your arguing for in the game. Strict cost-power correlation is not necessary because ED is not a traditional loot/level based MMO. For example gimballed weapons are several times the cost of fixed because they cost more to make not because they are better all round, cost in ED is partly a realism/immersion factor.

 

[bassman]

Hear that snapping noise? That is my patience.


If i bust my ass and train 24/7 ten years streetfighting and I am the guy who beats up every other guy at it i still not expect to bead an guy who inherits ten billion dollars and wedges his fat lazy ass into an abrams tank.

I expect to him to be invulnerable to my fist because that would be REALISTIC that i CAN NOT punch through inch thick reinforced and shatter proof steel and keramik composites.

And i want an game where it is REALISTIC that an ship with an wastly bigger powerplant and therefore shields who can rely on capacitators who are gigantic and have the same weight as an WHOLE viper soaks up the damage the viper dishes out for a very long time.

You want that it is "fair" but that is not realistic either

There has to be an point in ship progress where fair ends and some resemblance of reality sets in or we can do away with different ships and make them all the same.

Lets remove invulnerability of stations and make them explode when an viper two shots them because it is not FAIR that an station who masses million times an viper and probably has thousands of powerplants can not be defeated by an Viper, it is not even an player! just an dump station that can not even evade any attacks!

Get an grip and take it like an MAN that you can not do them in all with one of the smallest fighters in the game.

I really try hard to never get personal in forums because that is bad style but as much as there is an point where sheer mass and power should have an impact my patience goes only so faar with people who demand that logic is bend over backwards to make an game world do what they think is "fair" because ...why?
So that an ship that costs a fraction of an bigger ship, has the fraction of the power avaiable for shields and wepaons, masses a fraction of said ship, has wepaons that mass a fraction of the bigger ships weapons can beat it in an dog fight?

If you do not want to loose an shoot out bring a gun and do not demand that bullets should be nerfed because they are not FAIR!

If they go this way with ELITE is will so rage quit, because i see no sense in an game where all is set up so everyone can beat everyone with everything, not because i am against FAIR but because it totally destroys the immersion into said game as soon all is tweaked and bend to make it FAIR.

Test of character is not that you always have a FAIR chance to win but how you deal with when you CAN NOT WIN

Just because your getting angry doesn't make you right. The realism card works against you as much for you: a fighter costing 10mill with 1/4 mill excocet missile can take out a 150mill frigate. Also your mostly fighting against a straw man that exists only in your imagination, noone is asking to make everything the same and to be "fair" - rather that power differences represent probabilities rather than absolutes.

 

[Darian]

I see this as "other world" you went into the other dimension where the guns have become a few tons more heavy.

 

[DimGook]

Shield cells are being rebalanced so can this argument now stop?

You all got your wish for a nerf on them, I am now just waiting on the tears from you all when you can not kill those elite NPC anaconda pirate lords solo in a viper anymore.

Huh? Pretty sure I can kill them in a Viper without using any shield cells at all.

 

[Darian]

And the fighter hopes that the crew of the frigate has an real low performance day.
And he contemplates the very real risk that he will not return to base.
And his insurance will clench there spincter until he is back safe.

My point.

 

[Darian]

Just because your getting angry doesn't make you right. The realism card works against you as much for you: a fighter costing 10mill with 1/4 mill excocet missile can take out a 150mill frigate. Also your mostly fighting against a straw man that exists only in your imagination, noone is asking to make everything the same and to be "fair" - rather that power differences represent probabilities rather than absolutes.

Or when i played an fantasie adv. way back, the warrior type liked the archers because they could own them left right and center.
One morning they woke up and found that the archers leveled up and sudden they go arrow in face if they became fresh.
Big screaming for the nerfbat because an guy with an bend woodstick and another straight woodstick PWNDZ them without breaking an sweat where before they walzt just over them.

and he had not to grind this shiny armor and magic sword!

The people who in the beginning ruled the battelfield with an iron fist tend to get upset when they stop to call the shots, i say "get over it or a bigger gun like everyone else"

Or we have to be carefull to make no ship no matter how big and expensive strong enough to outclass by sheer numbers an viper.

But as said i do not want to play that game then because if everything IS a viper (exept filthy traders) wy play more than the three weeks it takes to have an viper.

In Elite you have either pvp or trading an biger ships, nothing else, and booth, pvp and trading with bigger ships becomes boring fast.

Now you want to reduce it to pvp only .

Meh.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

Folks, please dial the aggression down. There's no need to get hot under the collar.

It's just a game mechanic.

Your "Problem" doesn't sound like a problem at all. Have you tried not using shield cells? <...> Seems like a easy fix.

Yep... you're 100% correct. See my thread from late December:

I'm no longer using Shield Cell Banks.


[edit]...

You stated you are in a unique situation and can not find a challenge that is as uniquely endowed as you.

I didn't actually state I am in a unique situation in being unchallenged by NPCs. To tell you the truth, such a statement would have been mind-bogglingly ridiculous.

Similarly, I didn't presume to state that I had a particularly high level of combat skill. And if I had, I certainly wouldn't have used the phrase "uniquely endowed!" (fnerf fnerf).

 

[NeilF]

Shield cells are being rebalanced so clearly you were discussing a matter that needed addressing.

Many of you are probably please they're being adjusted, but I am now just waiting to find the next subject I can needlessly try and rile other posters up in.

Fixed...

 

[Bangfish]

Two things will never change.
1. People will never learn the difference between loose and lose.
2. There will still be weirdos around telling people to gimp their ship/loadout/way they play if they bring attention to any issue that severely undermines the balance (and fun) of the game. I bought 100% of the game, not 95%.

 

[bassman]

Or when i played an fantasie adv. way back, the warrior type liked the archers because they could own them left right and center.
One morning they woke up and found that the archers leveled up and sudden they go arrow in face if they became fresh.
Big screaming for the nerfbat because an guy with an bend woodstick and another straight woodstick PWNDZ them without breaking an sweat where before they walzt just over them.

and he had not to grind this shiny armor and magic sword!

The people who in the beginning ruled the battelfield with an iron fist tend to get upset when they stop to call the shots, i say "get over it or a bigger gun like everyone else"

Or we have to be carefull to make no ship no matter how big and expensive strong enough to outclass by sheer numbers an viper.

But as said i do not want to play that game then because if everything IS a viper (exept filthy traders) wy play more than the three weeks it takes to have an viper.

In Elite you have either pvp or trading an biger ships, nothing else, and booth, pvp and trading with bigger ships becomes boring fast.

Now you want to reduce it to pvp only .

Meh.

Sorry but your going to have to make your point a bit more clearly, Ive no idea that your on about.

 

[Darian]

So far Viper did lay down the hurt in Elite, now they find out there is an bigger bad boy in the 'hood.
They are lucky that it is an "multi hull" and not an designated warship I guess, so the nerf makes sense, but what happens when the Viper 2.0 shows up, three times as deadly but costs 300 millions...

This will become quite interesting if then again "money should not decide who is stronger" ....

I agree that the Python should not be the big boss who owns them all, but I find the squealing of viper pilots still hillarious.
I self prefer anaconda, it is what i dream of an armed merchant and that an python can kick my ass does not bother me at all but well... I guess I do not have this "viper personality" bwahaha

There will be an ship later that PWNZ vipers, I am positive about that, and i hope it will be insanly expensive and real badass, and i will still sit in my comfortable 'conda, watch the news and have an good laugh of the ensuing mayhem!