Fer de lance and expected python nerf

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Mike Evans

Designer- Elite: Dangerous
Frontier
Just because a ship can fit on a medium sized pad doesn't make it a medium ship as far as I'm concerned. That's just a bonus given its slimmer profile compared to the boxier traders. If the artists had made the type 7 a little slimmer or what have you they would be allowed to dock at medium pads too. The python has the stats of a large ship, can be heavy like a large ship and has the module customisation of a large ship.
 

cherny_prapor

cherny_prapor
Alpha November said:
Other than trading do you see any in-game role for larger ships?
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Currently - not really, but it's not a problem of the ships themselves. When it's possible to hire NPC wingmen or fly in groups (wings) with other CMDRs, heavy ships will do exactly what they are supposed to - be the "heavy artillery" that packs a lot of damage, while the wingmen defend them from enemy fighters.
 

BigBadB

B
CATPAIN KIRK said:
So why does it use medium pads then?

Edit: Ninja'd...
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Because there has to be a ship that's the largest that can fit on a medium pad. The Asp is too small to be the largest medium pad ship, and pretty much all the others are too big, so the python is the logical choice.
 

CmdrZaratan

C
Mike Evans said:
Just because a ship can fit on a medium sized pad doesn't make it a medium ship as far as I'm concerned. That's just a bonus given its slimmer profile compared to the boxier traders. If the artists had made the type 7 a little slimmer or what have you they would be allowed to dock at medium pads too. The python has the stats of a large ship, can be heavy like a large ship and has the module customisation of a large ship.
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Good answer :)
 

DimGook

D
Come on guys, they have to change it up a little and bring out different flavors of the month, it can't always be Python or people will have no reason to grind anymore.

I mean that is the point of ED right?
 

Alpha November

Alpha November
cherny_prapor said:
Currently - not really, but it's not a problem of the ships themselves. When it's possible to hire NPC wingmen or fly in groups (wings) with other CMDRs, heavy ships will do exactly what they are supposed to - be the "heavy artillery" that packs a lot of damage, while the wingmen defend them from enemy fighters.
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That's difficult to assess as the functionality doesn't exist and wings may turn out to be something else entirely. As the game stands I think a heavy hitting larger ship is useful and desirable. If it has to be downgraded take some of the cargo space away but leave it able to defend itself from the smaller fighters.
 

Kyokushin

Kyokushin
Mike Evans said:
Just because a ship can fit on a medium sized pad doesn't make it a medium ship as far as I'm concerned. That's just a bonus given its slimmer profile compared to the boxier traders. If the artists had made the type 7 a little slimmer or what have you they would be allowed to dock at medium pads too. The python has the stats of a large ship, can be heavy like a large ship and has the module customisation of a large ship.
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And you explained why it is medium not large. Dimensions are physical attributes.

It fit medium pad, it is a bit larger than asp so this is medium.
It is wide as asp but longer. So thats why it is medium not large.

It is math man. Measurable dimensions.
If it will be bigger it will be large.

Every signs on sky points its medium not large.

Heavier do not mean larger. However it hull mass is smaller than hull in larger ships. Smaller than clipper, l9, orca, dropship.

And your heavy outfit argument.
If i take small car, put to it big engine and strong suspension, and put inside 900kg of cargo it will be large car?
Not. It is still small car.

Game can treat it as large/heavy, because it is powerful and expensive ship - I agree in this point.
But correctly it is a medium ship.
I can park it in my garden if i will try :) Clipper unfortunatelly not ;)
 
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Poseidal

Poseidal
Look at the shield values:

http://i.imgur.com/omzijnI.png

It has equal or better shields than the Anaconda. All other non-freighter big ships are tiny in comparison - the nearest being the Clipper with shields just over half the value of the Python shields. The Clipper is also close in basic price to the Python; closer than either are to the Anaconda, but the firepower of the Python is more.

The Clipper is the ship that most favourably compares with the Python in that size category.

On top of these tanky shields, the Python is no slouch in turning. Imagine a Cobra (in terms of movement) that is more than four times as tough, with three times the firepower.

If it is 'medium', it should lose most of the shields and large hardpoints.
 

BigBadB

B
Kyokushin said:
Python like an asp is MEDIUM vessel. So thats why python is maneuverable. Unfortunately it is slow.

So your argument is invalid.
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No, it's a large ship that can fit on a medium pad because of its shape and design.

The fact that a python can land on a medium pad doesn't mean it's a medium ship - it's just another advantage the python has over other large ships.
 

cherny_prapor

cherny_prapor
Kyokushin said:
OK. So you dont played this ship, you dont know it advantages and disadvantages and you do not know what are you talking about.
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You don't have to be a chef to determine that the meal you've been served in a restaurant sucks. I've fought enough Pythons, and it caught my eye that they are too maneuverable for their armor and firepower. An Anaconda, for example, packs more punch and has better armor than the Python, but it's also less maneuverable, so it's a better-balanced ship, than the Python.

Kyokushin said:
Player in Python could be easly beaten by player in Viper, but it require skill.
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That's just not true. Replace "easily" with "sometimes", and then I'll agree. We're not talking about NPCs, BTW.

Kyokushin said:
If you know how to make money you have better ship. Thas how world works.
In real life, if you know how to make money you have Ferrari. If not, you go by foot
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True, but only partially - a Ferrari is good only for the stuff it was made to do: it's maneuvarable, fast, comfortable and beautiful. Nobody expects it to outperform a bulldozer in a swamp. You, on the other hand, suggest that if ship A is more expensive than ship B, it has to be superior in EVERY way. That's wrong.
 

Mike Evans

Designer- Elite: Dangerous
Frontier
Poseidal said:
Look at the shield values:

http://i.imgur.com/omzijnI.png

It has equal or better shields than the Anaconda. All other non-freighter big ships are tiny in comparison - the nearest being the Clipper with shields just over half the value of the Python shields. The Clipper is also close in basic price to the Python; closer than either are to the Anaconda, but the firepower of the Python is more.

The Clipper is the ship that most favourably compares with the Python in that size category.

On top of these tanky shields, the Python is no slouch in turning. Imagine a Cobra (in terms of movement) that is more than four times as tough, with three times the firepower.

If it is 'medium', it should lose most of the shields and large hardpoints.
Click to expand...

Just so you know that table isn't really correct at all.
 

Kyokushin

Kyokushin
BigBadB said:
No, it's a large ship that can fit on a medium pad because of its shape and design.

The fact that a python can land on a medium pad doesn't mean it's a medium ship - it's just another advantage the python has over other large ships.
Click to expand...

Dimensions are physical attribute man.
If something is physically small, it is small. If large large. If medium, it is medium at all.

Poseidal said:
On top of these tanky shields, the Python is no slouch in turning. Imagine a Cobra (in terms of movement) that is more than four times as tough, with three times the firepower.

If it is 'medium', it should lose most of the shields and large hardpoints.
Click to expand...

Python has big shield CAPACITY but it has SMALLER class of shields form Clipper, L9 or Anaconda. ONly class 6.
Large capacity shileds = large time of recharge - above MINUTE from fail. If python loose shields he is LOST.
This is one of disadvantages to have large shields.

As i sad. This is good balanced craft. This is definately NOT a godship. Buy one and try to fight on it.

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Mike Evans said:
Just so you know that table isn't really correct at all.
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Yes Mike. A lot of complaining people dont have python and never flied it. They see only advantages like shields and maneuvoability. but they are completely blind for slow speed (even you have A6 drive EVERYBODY can safe flee from your fire), very long recharge time (if you have shields down you are dead), large rebuy cost, large price and RISK in flying.
They want to beat every ship, without work and play with their stock cobra.
And many of people who has python dont tried to fight PvP on this, because the have no cash for rebuy, so they dont risk.
 
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c64orinoco

c64orinoco
De-power the Python? There, see that's why we say 'nerf', de-power sounds like management speak.

I think the Python could be stronger, I haven't met one yet that made me doubt my Cobra, and I don't even have extra shield banks installed.

I'm hoping the Fer De Lance is a nasty little pointy blighter that can put it right up those smarmy Anaconda jockeys.

And then I'm getting one.
 
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Arithon

Arithon
DimGook said:
Come on guys, they have to change it up a little and bring out different flavors of the month, it can't always be Python or people will have no reason to grind any more.

I mean that is the point of ED right?
Click to expand...

Well, I had a Python but rather than upgrade it, I got a Type 9.

Now with the Lakon Type 9 I have raised the funds for an ASP, which I am "pimping up" to be a long-range multi-role ship. When I had the ASP originally, as with the Python, I was focussed on trade. Now I have a dedicated trade ship as a means to fund my "Wonder ASP" and my "Weekend Viper".

Several of my gaming community have already done this at a lower cash threshold with a Type-6 and a Cobra. Eventually I will have enough funds for a "Monster Python", but until then I trade, bounty hunt and engage in missions as the mood takes me.
 

Raz0rking

Raz0rking
everyone is eager to compare a python with a 'conda.
Well it (python) has better shields than a 'conda but not by much.
Now look ate the hull. The 'conda can trade hull if the shields are down. A python....not so much.
Python has much less cargo and the jumprange is pretty crappy.
And still people are whining.

I hope the ship gets something buffed in return after the nerf, or else it is a statement if enough people whine about something arbitary, devs will cave.

I am totally in favour of buffing the sidewinder so it can take on a 'conda....*whine whine whine*
 

Wolf Starslayer

Wolf Starslayer
[video=youtube;WRQ52Q6UUaY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRQ52Q6UUaY[/video]
A python really shouldn't die in seconds to a viper, or why buy it?
This is problem for the bigger ships NOW, I know pdt's don't hit dumb-fires atm, but even after you fixed them will they stop a continuous volley @ 30m?
 
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