PvP vs Piracy...they are not the same.

[Quineloe]

He said piracy, not "piracy against players"

Well look at what he quoted, then.

 

[Mohrgan]

"Piracy against players" doesn't necessarily imply PvP?

Put the whole quote in there and don't put words in my mouth. My post stressed the fact that piracy, the act, can be done in PvE as well. It also said that PvP piracy was equally valid. So what's your problem?

 

[DimGook]

Well look at what he quoted, then.

So he didn't repeat what YOU said, which was a tautology and NOT what the OP said either, which was simply "piracy".

So your point was?

 

[Cmdr Effie Trinket]

This threads requires urgent intervention;

 

[Mohrgan]

Pretty kitties.... How nice.

 

[Quineloe]

Put the whole quote in there and don't put words in my mouth. My post stressed the fact that piracy, the act, can be done in PvE as well. It also said that PvP piracy was equally valid. So what's your problem?

You first. That is, don't remove words from my mouth when you quote me. You quoted me, then replied completely out of context, and you don't like when the same is done to you?

We're all well aware that you can also pirate NPCs, which however do mostly carry garbage not worth stealing.

 

[Joe Spivey]

The request isn't to make the game something it's not supposed to be, the request is to make it so you can't safe mode grind credits and then go pvp, because that's what's happening. And while it doesn't necessarily ruin the game it hurts the immersion. It's like watching a horror movie with the horror parts replaced with cute bunny cartoons.

This issue has been addressed so many times that it is no longer funny. Just read back a few pages. Or start at the front and read forward a few pages. Heck, pick a page at random and read a few pages either side and this issue is addressed.

 

[ermtony]

I don't want to gank an 60 year old guy who has the reflexes of a dinosaur.

Hey! My reflexes aren't that bad! Okay, so they are not as good as they were 30 years ago but I'm still managing a decent number of kills.

There is no challenge there nor does he want ganked. He wants to trade and explore the stars. Let him have that with his friends. But I would like a combat oriented fair game. I don't think that is too much to ask either.

Nearly 60 I might be but I'm still enjoying the missions, the combat and the interaction (as well as trading and exploring). Don't write us all off once we get past 30.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Its not just a combat game, but it is a sandbox and the point of a sandbox is to create and fufill your own goals. If that goal is psychopathic maniac racking up the highest bounty and kill count you can get, its just as legitimate as being a trader trying to achieve the Elite Rank. These two sandbox goals exist in the same game and if you play open you are exposing yourself willingly to the personal goals of other players that may be in direct conflict with yours.

If this wasn't true about Elite Dangerous, than the game ceases to be a sandbox.

Indeed it is not just about combat, and of course we set our own goals. However, having set our own goals, we should not necessarily expect those goals to be profitable or even feasible - some things just are not (e.g. visiting every system in the game).

The post I replied to suggested that the game be modified to suit a particular play-style.

There has been contention as to what constitutes (or does not) a sandbox - some would contend that the game is open world rather than sandbox.

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The way we play the game, alters the game from what Frontier thought their game would be. I can hardly believe their dream was to make this a game that has three modes: solo trade-mode, weird I hate PvP-mode and PvP arena-mode...

Indeed it does - however that does not mean that Frontier necessarily needs to encourage such play by changing the game to suit it.

The request isn't to make the game something it's not supposed to be, the request is to make it so you can't safe mode grind credits and then go pvp, because that's what's happening. And while it doesn't necessarily ruin the game it hurts the immersion. It's like watching a horror movie with the horror parts replaced with cute bunny cartoons.

The request has been many times over a very long (in relation to the game's development) time - the requests / demands / prophecies of impending failure for the game have changed nothing about the three game modes nor the group switching feature. What is immersive for some is not necessarily immersive for others, e.g. being targeted simply because one is a player breaks immersion for some players. Some films simply have scenes cut to enable them to receive a release rating - that analogy can be applied to solo / private groups - the non-consensual PvP has been "cut" from those modes.

 

[Mohrgan]

You first. That is, don't remove words from my mouth when you quote me. You quoted me, then replied completely out of context, and you don't like when the same is done to you?

We're all well aware that you can also pirate NPCs, which however do mostly carry garbage not worth stealing.

I believe I truncated your post to speak to that one point. I feel the point I made was in context and was polite. It appeared your truncation and comment was meant to mis-direct my meaning. It seems that I wasn't alone in that reasoning. Please clarify what you meant by that post. I am not unreasonable, and I don't think how I commented was either.

 

[cyd]

I understand that you have made a number of choices as to how you want to play the game. That said, there is nothing that you as a player can do to make pirating players profitable - it is up to the players that you are targeting to co-operate to some extent by dropping cargo. Even if they do, you have no influence over which cargo is dropped and, even if it is the most valuable in the cargo hold, whether it is of any real value to you. Disabling ships by shooting out thrusters will require the pilot of the target to self-destruct to continue their game as they are effectively marooned in space - so disabling ships is likely to make players simply self destruct as soon as they are disabled - no profit in that for you either.

I also understand that, given the size of the galaxy, player encounters are rare outside the most populated systems and that most ships that you encounter will be NPCs.



If the game had been advertised as PvP centric then you might have had a point.

Completely disagree with this. No system is static and balance changes are made in all games. FD decided to destroy piracy by making items pirated only half value on top of a very long fuel scoop process which makes it unviable at higher levels. This is PvE or PvP. If you could instascoop and didn't have rediculous black markets eat half the profits, piracy would be very lucrative. So lets toss PvP out and just make piracy profitable.

 

[Cmdr Effie Trinket]

Cowardice is defined simply as a lack of bravery. A thief, something a pirate is in all honesty, is not brave. Much of the time pirates are that way through desperation or situation. Only in a game are pirates that way through nothing but choice to play that way. But that does not make them brave.

As was stated in another post, Pirates are really no different then traders. They are both seeking one simple thing, profit. This is just through different means. But thievery or piracy are not professions for the brave, they depend on financial incentive to be present. People trade for hours, days at a time because that time will net them profits. A pirate will track a target and attempt to take their goods for the same reason...profit.

Thus both professions show a measure of cowardice. The trader will seek routes of high profit with low chance of interdiction. While a pirate will choose the best ship they can to assure overwhelming superiority in an effort to persuade the target to drop their loot. It does not take bravery, just enough guns to make the other guy far less brave then would be needed to run.

Bizzare is defined by a person asserting real-world attributes that lead a person down a dark path of anti-social behaviour, even crime; robbery, murder etc. and applying those same reasons to a player of game, who simply chooses to adopt the built-in by the designers' role, of Pirate.

Well done.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

So lets toss PvP out and just make piracy profitable.

That's a fair comment. Its a dangerous trade, so it should pay decently (eg: selling pirated goods at a pirate base could get you full value - although a bit unrealistic, who pays full price for stolen goods?). Of course, the flip side to that is it really needs to be a dangerous trade, with no loopholes for clearing bounties and bounties should be high. I'd like to see it so that once you commit to a life of a pirate your commander gets a negative reputation that builds and builds.

Eventually it would reach the point that you would simply have to stay out of high sec systems because the authorities would be on your behind the moment you jump in. You would be forced to live in anarch/low sec systems, docking at pirate bases, and overall being an overall scurvy dog.

Those bounties accrued would not be payable off (compared with more or less clean pilots that make the occasional error of judgement and reform).

And of course, you would then become a good target for the PC bounty hunters as well, giving them real challenging targets to go after.

How this could be implemented in real terms might be a little tricky, but i think it could make some really awesome gameplay for both pirates and bounty hunters, and ultimately mean traders are safer in high sec systems from PC pirates but woe betides them in they enter low sec systems.

 

[Cmdr Effie Trinket]

That's a fair comment. Its a dangerous trade, so it should pay decently (eg: selling pirated goods at a pirate base could get you full value - although a bit unrealistic, who pays full price for stolen goods?). Of course, the flip side to that is it really needs to be a dangerous trade, with no loopholes for clearing bounties and bounties should be high. I'd like to see it so that once you commit to a life of a pirate your commander gets a negative reputation that builds and builds.

Eventually it would reach the point that you would simply have to stay out of high sec systems because the authorities would be on your behind the moment you jump in. You would be forced to live in anarch/low sec systems, docking at pirate bases, and overall being an overall scurvy dog.

Those bounties accrued would not be payable off (compared with more or less clean pilots that make the occasional error of judgement and reform).

And of course, you would then become a good target for the PC bounty hunters as well, giving them real challenging targets to go after.

How this could be implemented in real terms might be a little tricky, but i think it could make some really awesome gameplay for both pirates and bounty hunters, and ultimately mean traders are safer in high sec systems from PC pirates but woe betides them in they enter low sec systems.

Loki Gets it! +1

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

... for pirates I would say they could use some more tools. Methods to temporarily disable a targets FSD (some kind of weapon or hack) while also making it easier for the pirate to ransom their victim (Would you want cargo...or a credit transfer?). Now I do not profess to be the devs or to have access to what they know. But I can get into the mindset of the profession.

So that is that, I hope there is a good discussion and may all professions be viable.

Target cargo hatch, blast shields away with railguns, fire cargo hatch limpet. All the tools are in game. If idiots are not using them it is their own fault for not doing so.

 

[Spacejanitor]

The request has been many times over a very long (in relation to the game's development) time - the requests / demands / prophecies of impending failure for the game have changed nothing about the three game modes nor the group switching feature. What is immersive for some is not necessarily immersive for others, e.g. being targeted simply because one is a player breaks immersion for some players. Some films simply have scenes cut to enable them to receive a release rating - that analogy can be applied to solo / private groups - the non-consensual PvP has been "cut" from those modes.

I can't say that your point doesn't make sense, but it's lopsided as hell. And that's a problem. You don't have to agree with that problem but it still exists for many. I would understand your point of view if we'd have just one full uncontrollable PvP game mode, what I can't understand is that you can't understand our point of view. I really, REALLY have a problem with the fact that this game, in spite of its PvP nature doesn't have a closed PvP game mode. And the problem isn't that I can pop into solo when I want, It's because I don't but others can, and do. And don't come back with that "this game isn't for you" crap because this could as easily be the other way around. To continue the analogy, I'd want to watch the R rated version but only the PG-13 is available. Too bad I paid for the ticket already You can have your, G-PG-PG13 movie versions, let us have our R.

 

[Ghostickles]

Who said unwanted attacking is griefing? Thargoids arent griefers, we want Thargoids but no griefers... if you cant say CareBear in reference to a player type you shouldn't be allowed to label Open players who enjoy competition 'griefers'.

 

[Knot2clever]

Only read post as far as the first pointless comparison to EVE.

Second one in. You Eve guys are slipping.

 

[Cico]

I define my role by how I play if I want to kill Cmdrs then thats up to me

 

[xtridence]

As mentioned, there is a segment of the community that simply wants to pop player ships. The ego thing...

And what's your problem with that? Isn't this all about a "SPACE SIMULATION" like everyone says? Why you don't leave people to make their own decisions if they want to "pop" peoples ships or not? I also don't complain on you wanting to explore 400 Billion Stars, right? Or to truck around like there are only flowers surrounding you.

This is a game about of FREENESS to do whatever you want. And if that means to "pop" other peoples ships and it fits to what you want to do, DO SO. Seriously, this whining...

Hell, man, go play solo and never come back, alright?