Players losing it all and quitting - sure, their fault but not good for the game.

[xaisis]

Oh, god forbid the game is responsible for any anger caused, it's all their fault and thats the end of it!

Ridiculous, to be fair if the game was as good as many of you claim it is then there wouldn't be any issues for anyone.

The only reason you lot see no issues is due to the fact you don't see them as issues, well good for you eh.

And ED is complex .... really, you can put your hand on your heart and say with all honesty that ED, as a game, is "complex"? I doubt that very much indeed.

I think much of the back lash is more to do with the wider games industry as a whole. Players are sick of half baked games being rushed out the door and then being drip fed patches to "fix" the broken game, that by all rights, should work right out of the box/download, and at the moment, ED, whether you like it or not, is a half baked game at best. Okay so it looks great and it has some polish. But at the moment I think most players of ED will tell you it's not finished by a long shot.

More and more I see DB as just another peter molyneux.

FD are not god and they should be told if someone is unhappy with the product they have produced.

But instead they get the DB army descend upon them like a black cloud of self righteous locusts eager to shout them down as either stupid, not a "true" gamer or like in most cases just told to sod off and come back when your better. But oh god, it's not the games fault.

And i'll ignore the usual caveat of how i love ED and all that jazz just to sugar coat it for the locusts .

But of course my opinion is irrelevant to you lot because i'm not stroking DB's ego.

Cute .

 

[Alox]

Good answer!

To those wanting the game to provide them with a message about being uninsured it already does. You can view this message by pressing (default) 4.

So, let us assume for a moment that the devs decide to include a warning. What next?

"I undocked but forgot to refuel then ran out of fuel - devs please fix!"?
"I undocked but forgot to repair then died to an NPC- devs please fix!"?
"I undocked but forgot to reload then ran out of ammo in a firefight - devs please fix!"

Personally I would prefer the devs to go all-hands-on-deck about adding some content and depth to this game. I don't see any advantage in using developer time to make it any shallower than it already is.

Why is there even an insurance to get your ship back? Either you should be able to get your ship back after it blows up or you shouldn't - make a decision. This half- you forgot your insurance so you are foobar'ed is just stupid.

 

[Alpha November]

Its been said before a few dozen people unhappy out of 120,000, so what? they are never going to please everyone. If 10,000+ were kicking off then I would take note

These forums represent a very small percentage of the user base. I've no idea if they're representative of opinion more widely (probably not) but assuming they are then a very small group of unhappy users here could represent a much larger number in the wild.

 

[CMDR Bansidhe]

Why is there even an insurance to get your ship back? Either you should be able to get your ship back after it blows up or you shouldn't - make a decision. This half- you forgot your insurance so you are foobar'ed is just stupid.

I agree. It is time we took off the stabilisers and removed insurance entirely from the game.

Though as I understand it the Pilot's Federation actually deals with the insurance company, as a pilot you only have to pay the "excess" on your ship. So this isn't even an insurance issue. It is just a "stop playing so poorly issue."

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Who cares? Every game has people who quit it for petty reasons, this is not unusual nor does it need to be remedied. There is no such thing as 100% player retention.

 

[CMDR VOLTAGE]

Hi folks,

Over and over again we see players in the facebook group and here coming on to say that for whatever reason they we operating without the rebuy funds, something happened and whammo... back to square one. Most seem to quit thereafter.

Now it's very easy to take the lofy moral ground and say that it's their fault for taking the risk they did. But the long and short of it is, it's not good for the game. This game is designed for humans and we have to consider how they are, not how they should be.

You could just ignore this issue and be high minded about it, but I believe the game will suffer.

Amazingly, I have even seen posts where people claim not to have known they could lose everything, although I find that hard to comprehend. People can be caught out too... for example a new module is bought and the calculations fail to take the increase in rebuy cost into account and the player is shy of the rebuy cost without realising it.

Personally, I never fly without the rebuy cost. I don't even risk my trading capital (mostly, have risked it a few times). You just need one-glitch when docking... a bump in the slit... whatever... and it's all over.

Are there plans to do anything about it? I'm not suggesting we dumb the game down, but perhaps there are simple things that could be done without removing the risk management aspect of things.

For example, you could have a system of accounts and you could move credits between them... for example, to put your rebuy cost aside.

Or, a simple message when your funds would drop below the rebuy cost after a transaction.

Or, your insurance excess is zero but you pay a premium. Or let the player decide the risk by having a premium that is related to the insurance excess.

Thoughts?

I would appreciate being able to deposit savings in an account separate from my functional 'wallet'. Obviously it isn't necessary, but i think there's a certain piece of mind in knowing that no matter what happens, you're covered. My bouts of bad luck/disaster have all been when far too tired to be piloting safely or making financial decisions, so without a doubt my fault, but... The game aims to be a fairly realistic portrayal of the 34th century. You'd think they would have banks.



Also refreshing to see folks calmly suggesting considered improvements. I hope the responses are as calm and considered.

 

[Bigcheese]

Who cares? Every game has people who quit it for petty reasons, this is not unusual nor does it need to be remedied. There is no such thing as 100% player retention.

Intentionally implementing show stopping mechanics that are not well communicated is just bad design.

It's pointless to have the "Why improve anything? Someone will still be unhappy" attitude. No progress could ever be made with that kind of thinking.

 

[Taimaru]

I really can't believe that the only time most people die and "learn" about insurance is when they own an expensive ship. If that is the case then this game is too easy.

Therefore I suggest we remove the 200k loan (which gives some a false sense of security) and make the game harder (more dangerous) so people lose their sidewinder / eagle / hauler / adder etc. early on and learn that they need insurance before moving onto the big expensive ships.

Frontier, if you do decide to add a "You must have insurance" warning message, please give us the option of disabling that message. In addition can you also give us the option to disable the "Add weapon to Firegroup" message as well - thanks.

 

[Amaze]

I agree. It is time we took off the stabilisers and removed insurance entirely from the game.

Though as I understand it the Pilot's Federation actually deals with the insurance company, as a pilot you only have to pay the "excess" on your ship. So this isn't even an insurance issue. It is just a "stop playing so poorly issue."

while we are at it.

Remove all other warnings like trespass......We never forget to ask for docking clearance.
Landing gear............................................Who ever forgets that.
Loitering.................................................You know you are doing it.
Timer limits to dock or get out of station.....Everyone has a watch.
Wanted...................................................You know you hit that security vessel
Fines......................................................I can read the side panel you don't have to tell me.

And there are many other little unnecessary messages for the Elite pilots.

 

[captun easy]

I don't mind playing with Superman. I do get annoyed playing with Supermen. It seems that the biggest part of the debate is about losing 'rage players'. That the game will ultimately suffer if the community loses them.
-
I don't care for games where everyone is Superman. It causes players to play/behave in such a way as to make the game feel stupid. Kind of a hold my beer watch this mentality. There is a reason we don't jump off cliffs or drive head-on into a wall (Well...some do), we die. Of course we're talking about a game. But I want the game to feel real. I want other players to make realistic decisions and take appropriate risks. When I get into a battle I hate playing with someone that uses very unrealistic tactics because they aren't concerned about consequences. That sort of mentality takes any real strategy out of the game.
-
I am not alone. Most of the people I play games with are like me. If ED gives in to the 'no risk' stratagem I will find something else to play. And so will many others IMHO, which will hurt the game. So using the, "If they don't change it ED will lose them and it will hurt the game" argument is not a valid premise.
-
I like the system as it is. Obviously so do the developers. To the Rage quitter: I'm sorry if you didn't like ED, we do...please find another game to play.

 

[CMDR Bansidhe]

while we are at it.

Remove all other warnings like trespass......We never forget to ask for docking clearance.
Landing gear.............................................Who ever forgets that.
Loitering...................................................You know you are doing it.
Timer limits to dock or get out of station.....Everyone has a watch.
Wanted....................................................You know you hit that security vessel
Fines........................................................I can read the side panel you don't have to tell me.

And there are many other little unnecessary messages for the Elite pilots.

Great ideas! Keep them coming. Loving every single one of them.

Actually, on second thoughts, the Wanted one is different as you DON'T always know where every single multi-cannon shot ended up and I don't believe there is any mechanism in the game to track this. The rest, however, would work fine within the game we have currently.

+1 - Have some rep.

 

[Alox]

I would appreciate being able to deposit savings in an account separate from my functional 'wallet'. Obviously it isn't necessary, but i think there's a certain piece of mind in knowing that no matter what happens, you're covered. My bouts of bad luck/disaster have all been when far too tired to be piloting safely or making financial decisions, so without a doubt my fault, but... The game aims to be a fairly realistic portrayal of the 34th century. You'd think they would have banks.



Also refreshing to see folks calmly suggesting considered improvements. I hope the responses are as calm and considered.

And since trading is a big part of this game, multiple money-accounts should be implicit to manage your economy so you can pool you seed capital in one account, your savings in another, etc. (It is also a bit annoying that the current assets value is wrongly calculated)...

 

[Bigcheese]

I don't mind playing with Superman. I do get annoyed playing with Supermen. It seems that the biggest part of the debate is about losing 'rage players'. That the game will ultimately suffer if the community loses them.
-
I don't care for games where everyone is Superman. It causes players to play/behave in such a way as to make the game feel stupid. Kind of a hold my beer watch this mentality. There is a reason we don't jump off cliffs or drive head-on into a wall (Well...some do), we die. Of course we're talking about a game. But I want the game to feel real. I want other players to make realistic decisions and take appropriate risks. When I get into a battle I hate playing with someone that uses very unrealistic tactics because they aren't concerned about consequences. That sort of mentality takes any real strategy out of the game.
-
I am not alone. Most of the people I play games with are like me. If ED gives in to the 'no risk' stratagem I will find something else to play. And so will many others IMHO, which will hurt the game. So using the, "If they don't change it ED will lose them and it will hurt the game" argument is not a valid premise.
-
I like the system as it is. Obviously so do the developers. To the Rage quitter: I'm sorry if you didn't like ED, we do...please find another game to play.

Makes sweeping generalizations and then says "If ED gives in to the 'no risk' stratagem I will find something else to play." That just happened. I hate to break this to you, but Elite is a padded walls universe made for risk adverse people. The risk level is EXTREMELY low.

What's up with low skilled players pretending insurance is some kind of test of skill? It's a test of micromanagement ability, nothing more. The idea is fine, but the system itself is terribly implemented.

I just wish bad players (and you are bad since you didn't realize there is next to no risk in Elite) would realize what they are doing. They are confusing tedium with difficulty. If you are unable to make that distinction, your views on difficulty are not that useful.

 

[Lupin]

Well the game is called Elite Dangerous and to be honest there is very little danger as it is. If anything they should make it more dangerous.

Like upping insurance for pirates and bounty hunters?

 

[Belsameth]

Intentionally implementing show stopping mechanics that are not well communicated is just bad design.

It's pointless to have the "Why improve anything? Someone will still be unhappy" attitude. No progress could ever be made with that kind of thinking.

Thats what I tried to say, just using more words. Nice one, good sir

 

[Alox]

I really can't believe that the only time most people die and "learn" about insurance is when they own an expensive ship. If that is the case then this game is too easy.

Therefore I suggest we remove the 200k loan (which gives some a false sense of security) and make the game harder (more dangerous) so people lose their sidewinder / eagle / hauler / adder etc. early on and learn that they need insurance before moving onto the big expensive ships.

Frontier, if you do decide to add a "You must have insurance" warning message, please give us the option of disabling that message. In addition can you also give us the option to disable the "Add weapon to Firegroup" message as well - thanks.

Yup I agree with this, the 200K is entirely too arbitrary. Either remove it so people gets punished earlier where it hurts less or make it limitless (and put in some interests of some form) if it is a game feature you wish to keep.

 

[Skunkmiester]

A Galaxy in ED, 2 years in the future.

One of the last handful of remaining ED players chatting to another rare CMDR.

CMDR 1: Hey, how are you doing?

CMDR 2: Oh wow, a real player, errr Hi there.

CMDR 1: Nice Conda, you still loving the game?

CMDR 2: Thanks, Oh yeah man it's gnarly. It's so cool how they stuck to Elite Lore and didn't change a thing.

CMDR 1: So true, I love how it's the future and Insurance doesn't work, really makes the game real hard.

CMDR 2: Damn right, we don't want no cry babies or noobs in our game do we.

CMDR 1: Too right, and the Lore man, it's all about the Lore. We don't want any modern ideas, messing with our 80's game.

CMDR 2: I hear ya, anyway, gotta go, I have to finish my 60th trade run of the day.

CMDR 1: Have fun.......

 

[CMDR VOLTAGE]

I agree. It is time we took off the stabilisers and removed insurance entirely from the game.

Though as I understand it the Pilot's Federation actually deals with the insurance company, as a pilot you only have to pay the "excess" on your ship. So this isn't even an insurance issue. It is just a "stop playing so poorly issue."

Why would they remove insurance completely? That strikes me as a ridiculous notion. Is Elite not trying to be somewhat realistic in it's portrayal of the future? I'm fairly sure star ship insurance would exist, as would banks, loan sharks etc. I get the impression there isn't a core hard enough for some around here.

 

[martinwright6]

I don't mind playing with Superman. I do get annoyed playing with Supermen. It seems that the biggest part of the debate is about losing 'rage players'. That the game will ultimately suffer if the community loses them.
-
I don't care for games where everyone is Superman. It causes players to play/behave in such a way as to make the game feel stupid. Kind of a hold my beer watch this mentality. There is a reason we don't jump off cliffs or drive head-on into a wall (Well...some do), we die. Of course we're talking about a game. But I want the game to feel real. I want other players to make realistic decisions and take appropriate risks. When I get into a battle I hate playing with someone that uses very unrealistic tactics because they aren't concerned about consequences. That sort of mentality takes any real strategy out of the game.
-
I am not alone. Most of the people I play games with are like me. If ED gives in to the 'no risk' stratagem I will find something else to play. And so will many others IMHO, which will hurt the game. So using the, "If they don't change it ED will lose them and it will hurt the game" argument is not a valid premise.
-
I like the system as it is. Obviously so do the developers. To the Rage quitter: I'm sorry if you didn't like ED, we do...please find another game to play.

No-one is saying apply a 'no risk' strategem; People are suggesting that FD incorporate a warning message that your credits are lower than the rebuy cost (with the option to never see it again). I'm sure we all want players to make realistic decisons - but don't we also want them to make informed decisions?

 

[Amaze]

Great ideas! Keep them coming. Loving every single one of them.

Actually, on second thoughts, the Wanted one is different as you DON'T always know where every single multi-cannon shot ended up and I don't believe there is any mechanism in the game to track this. The rest, however, would work fine within the game we have currently.

+1 - Have some rep.

Your wanted status is shown in the side panels.
maybe you didn't know you hit that guy but you can check your status anytime.